Gards, Bozo and JVR need to go. Borgs is not ready.

[RythmicOne]

One thing that I read that was suggested is interesting. Drop Bozo for a bag of pucks and move one of Nylander or Marner to center. They are natural centers at points. A few of the builds I saw were very interesting with Matthews, Nylander/marner, Kadri and (4th center) while filling one good spot on D were interesting. The only other way is to wait for our farm to develope, which I mentioned above.

 

[RythmicOne]

Gardiner has consistently been one of our better defensemen his entire career as a Leaf. Oh, and he's a notorious slow starter.

There? I have no credibility now, glad we could get that out of that way. Whatever that even means anyway LOL

We have been reading different stat history. Being "one of the better Toronto D" says nothing since the sample is so bad.

Lets just agree to disagree.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Agree that Gardiner will never be who we want him to be. It’s only a matter of time for JVR and Bozak. Disagree about Borgman though. He makes mistakes but shows so much promise. We really have no choice but to have him develop up here. He’s the best of all our young d.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Borgman has been pretty good for us, could see him replacing Gardiner in the top 4

 

[stickty111]

Very good addition to the conversation. Our -10 players are being defended by a board jockey. Oh joy.
Too bad my sentiment is shared by many many others... including those who run the team.

That guy is just upset that you criticized Bozak even though he deserves it. He was saying for a long time that Bozak is better than Kadri, and now that he has been proven wrong, he is upset. So its not a surprise he is upset about the blame to Bozak, and is going after Kadri.

I mean Kadri has struggled lately but we know this isnt him usually. Bozak being bad though is normal especially defensively.

 

[moon111]

Anyone who is hating on Kadri has zero hockey IQ. I never really liked Kadri before, but he has come full circle under Babs. He is a solid 2-3 center and can shut down the best. The team has stunk in the last week, you can't just go after Kadri. Bozo and JVR have NEVER been back checkers. NEVER hit. ALWAYS run gun one and done. Only turn it on when they smell a goal. Stay still until others start the rush. Pathetic. I know Babs is seething at them.

I don't hate Kadri. But I would say any success he's having can be directly contributed to Babcock more then anything else. He always left you disappointed and would be off doing his own thing. Babcock didn't try changing this. He built the line around him. Kadri's ability to break up ice is a lot stronger then making passing plays. So Babcock gave him the green light to do his thing, while his wingers take the defensive assignments. Kadri does more defensively by keeping the opposition on their toes then actual defensive work.

 

[Nalens Oga]

There's a minor issue I see here. Rebuilding teams need prospects to step in at some point right? They can't be expected to step in and just contribute big all of a sudden as rookies imo outside of the high end Matthews/Nylander types. JVR/Bozak are taking away roster spots from prospects who will potentially still be here in a few years time while those two are on expiring deals.

Get rid of them, Babcock unfortunately just isn't the right coach for prospect development though but Lou or Shanny or whoever the heck is in charge has to force his hand and that involves taking away some old toys.

 

[stickty111]

I don't hate Kadri. But I would say any success he's having can be directly contributed to Babcock more then anything else. He always left you disappointed and would be off doing his own thing. Babcock didn't try changing this. He built the line around him. Kadri's ability to break up ice is a lot stronger then making passing plays. So Babcock gave him the green light to do his thing, while his wingers take the defensive assignments. Kadri does more defensively by keeping the opposition on their toes then actual defensive work.

Kadri's passing ability is very good and better than Bozak's.

Honestly your just making a bunch of assumptions to suit a narrative.
Here is an assumption.

Bozak doesnt get any defensive wingers because they dont want those wingers to be negatively affected by his one man disaster defensive show routine.
All though we can keep blaming his wingers I guess. It was Kessel's fault, than Lupul's, than JVR's, now Marner's.

 

[TMLegend]

That guy is just upset that you criticized Bozak even though he deserves it. He was saying for a long time that Bozak is better than Kadri, and now that he has been proven wrong, he is upset. So its not a surprise he is upset about the blame to Bozak, and is going after Kadri.

I mean Kadri has struggled lately but we know this isnt him usually. Bozak being bad though is normal especially defensively.

Never change MikeBel, never change.

 

[Lightsol]

Kadri's passing ability is very good and better than Bozak's..

How would we know? Kadri doesn't tend to pass.

 

[Duke Silver]

The moment we trade Gardiner he ends up playing like a beast and making the organization look stupid. When Gardiner is on, he's a top 40 defenceman in the league

The problem is that Gardiner is only “on” 50% (or less) of the time.

 

[biotk]

Because of a move (and the business surrounding all that goes with that) I have missed the last 6 Leafs games. Have I missed anything??

 

[A1LeafNation]

The problem is that Gardiner is only “on” 50% (or less) of the time.

He's always been on for the playoffs though..

 

[Jozay]

Borgman has looked fine lol

 

[Discordia]

Expendable pieces in my opinion:
JvR
Bozak
Komo
Kadri
All Defencemen
Martin
Both Goaltenders

And by expendable I mean get value for them (as much as you can) with an aim toward young players with plenty of room to grow.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Borgman has looked good. I think going forward, a defensive core centered around Dermott, Rielly, Liljegren, Borgman, and Rosen is pretty decent.

 

[Dreakmur]

There's a minor issue I see here. Rebuilding teams need prospects to step in at some point right? They can't be expected to step in and just contribute big all of a sudden as rookies imo outside of the high end Matthews/Nylander types. JVR/Bozak are taking away roster spots from prospects who will potentially still be here in a few years time while those two are on expiring deals.

Get rid of them, Babcock unfortunately just isn't the right coach for prospect development though but Lou or Shanny or whoever the heck is in charge has to force his hand and that involves taking away some old toys.

Babcock, like most coaches, is good for some players and bad for others.

Babcock has been amazing for Kadri. He's been really good for guys like Nylander, Rielly, and Gardiner. Hard to tell what effect was on Matthews and Brown, though I do like how he has handled them both so far. Which players has he been bad for? Probably Bozak and van Riemsdyk. We'll see about Marner.

Babcock seems like a coach who will be great with players who are naturally hard workers and mentally tough. Mitch Marner currently sits where William Nylander was a year and a half ago. Babcock wanted Nylander to do more, and made it clear. Nylander, to my surprise admittedly, made the needed adjustments, and look at him now. Marner now has to do the same thing.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Literally everyone can step it up a notch. We have to stop waiting for the teams we’re playing to decide our fate. Our guys can take over games, but it’s like we’re sitting back and waiting to see how hard we need to work.

 

[Rare Jewel]

The only player who isn't to blame is Matthews. Outside of him, the rest have been okay to brutal.

I think Brown has been better than okay thus far.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Not sure people think through what giving up depth in Bozak and JVR entails, ship them out (and for what? Picks? Lesser roster players) makes ever other player worse as it will mean they'll have harder QoC. It's fun to be mad during an ugly losing streak but there isn't a larger enough sample size to draw definitive conclusions this season. Yes Bozak and JVR suck defensively but for what their bring on offense they're a luxury at their cap hit.

Kadri needs to go? What? You won't get a more complete C at that price. With the big three getting raises in the next few years Kadri is untouchable and I'm not even a Kadri fan. He's played bad for the last two weeks, before that he was the best player not named Matthews this season, ups and downs of four weeks of the season are meaningless.

Gardiner? Lol, sure trade him for Trouba. I'm no stats geek but at least learn the basics of how to properly evaluate blueliners. If you have the puck a lot, you occasionally look silly. Gardiner was the Leafs best defenseman last season, arguably our best player in the post season but we had a bad road trip in November, bfd.

Borgman... yeah a euro signing rookie has limitation, so long as management doesn't give him an 7 year deal at season's end I'm ok with him.

 

[LondonKendrick]

I think Brown has been better than okay thus far.

Rielly - Hainsey has been a pleasant surprise.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I think Brown has been better than okay thus far.

Hes been good but not earth shattering.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Rielly - Hainsey has been a pleasant surprise.

I'd agree, but some are still pretty harsh on Rielly. I was thinking more of a unanimous feeling on a player 15 games in - but as it turns out, Brown hasn't even impressed all.

 

[stickty111]

How would we know? Kadri doesn't tend to pass.

Yes he does pass.
We know because of his great passing ability we have seen

 

[hullsy47]

Even tho it is glaringly obvious that Bozo and JVR are playing like players that know they are not wanted, it is even crazier that people think Gardiner is good. He is all over the map, flashes of brilliance and then bone head central. He is NOT going to just "get better", he is in his prime!

You can't just wave your wand and trade these 3, but I would be trying hard. Nobody is buying a turd in a dress nowadays.

Are you not tired of watching our forwards loaf around and not back check? Run gun one and done? Leaving the D out to dry, who by the way, crumble on the slightest forcheck?

Borgman is not ready. He is getting beat at every turn. Gards is eternally frustrating. Keep Reilly, Zeits, Hains. Get some kids ready or a stud, but there will be pain. This is not the year.

Without back checking forwards, D that crumble on a fore check and cannot clear the zone or hold the offensive line, this year is going to hurt. I guarantee this is exactly what Babs and company feel. We are stuck with these plugs.