Gardiner or Zaitsev

[Mr Hockey]

you're using "All Situations" - which includes special teams.

when you do that, the PK guys will always end up on the bottom.

I will fix, I was more curious to see if I could post the table off of hockey-reference.com

 

[thewave]

Only in Leafsland does a good hockey player like Jake Gardiner get thrown under the bus and compared to a guy with only 1 season under his belt. He is playing well and Jake isn't having the best of times at the moment. This does not diminish Jake as a player, only here.

Comparable... 3 weeks ago. Marner sucks Nylander is great. Lately before last night, Marner is great again and Nylander is crap.

Bi-Polar fanbase

 

[Mr Hockey]

5 vs 5

Player	iCF	SAT‑F	SAT‑A	CF%	CRel% ▼	ZSO	ZSD	oZS%	HIT	BLK
Connor Carrick	5	14	9	60.9	16.5	4	6	40.0	3	2
Andreas Borgman	4	14	10	58.3	13.2	4	6	40.0	5	0
Jake Gardiner	6	19	19	50.0	2.6	4	6	40.0	0	1
Nikita Zaitsev	3	17	17	50.0	2.5	5	5	50.0	6	1
Morgan Rielly	5	14	20	41.2	-11.3	7	12	36.8	0	3
Ron Hainsey	2	14	23	37.8	-17.4	8	11	42.1	2	2
TOTAL	-	-	-	-	-	-

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

 

[thewave]

Leafs D'men (5-on-5) against the Devils

Player	iCF	SAT‑F	SAT‑A	CF%	CRel%	ZSO	ZSD	oZS%	HIT	BLK
Andreas Borgman	4	14	10	58.3	13.2	4	6	40.0	5	0
Connor Carrick	5	14	9	60.9	16.5	4	6	40.0	3	2
Jake Gardiner	6	19	19	50.0	2.6	4	6	40.0	0	1
Ron Hainsey	2	14	23	37.8	-17.4	8	11	42.1	2	2
Morgan Rielly	5	14	20	41.2	-11.3	7	12	36.8	0	3
Nikita Zaitsev	3	17	17	50.0	2.5	5	5	50.0	6	1
TOTAL	~	~	~	~	~	~

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

So we see here clearly based on one game, Z and Jake are good and Mo and Ro are terrible. Jake and Mo with 0 hits.. haha, thats there biggest problem by far, both of them.

 

[zeke]

5 vs 5

Player	iCF	SAT‑F	SAT‑A	CF%	CRel% ▼	ZSO	ZSD	oZS%	HIT	BLK
Connor Carrick	5	14	9	60.9	16.5	4	6	40.0	3	2
Andreas Borgman	4	14	10	58.3	13.2	4	6	40.0	5	0
Jake Gardiner	6	19	19	50.0	2.6	4	6	40.0	0	1
Nikita Zaitsev	3	17	17	50.0	2.5	5	5	50.0	6	1
Morgan Rielly	5	14	20	41.2	-11.3	7	12	36.8	0	3
Ron Hainsey	2	14	23	37.8	-17.4	8	11	42.1	2	2
TOTAL	-	-	-	-	-	-

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

and this is why we then have to factor in quality of competition.

 

[Mr Hockey]

So we see here clearly based on one game, Z and Jake are good and Mo and Ro are terrible. Jake and Mo with 0 hits.. haha, thats there biggest problem by far, both of them.

• Rielly/Hainsey played most minutes against Taylor Hall and Travis Zajac lines (Devils #1 and #2 lines)
• Jake/Zaitsev played most minutes against Travis Zajac and Boyle lines (Devils #2 and #3 lines)

 

[thewave]

and this is why we then have to factor in quality of competition.

And when we do that we come to the conclusion that they are playing over their head?

 

[diceman934]

This poll removes all doubt that many know very little about hockey and simply turn on the TV and listen to what commentators spew... people dislike Don Cherry but he had it right Z is a giveaway machine and makes bad reads which leave his partner hanging out to dry. He misses so many rotations and i hazard to guess most on here miss them as they fail to understand what system in the D zone we are playing. Watch what Gardiner does next game for the first period and then the second period watch what Z does. See if they match. Then watch Reilly’s pairing and see if they match Gardiner or Z.

When all D man are playing the same and one is not.. tell me who is playing outside of the system. I said this all the time last year and no one believed me. Some are starting to see it. Our issue is we need an upgrade and I believe we will see Z play 3 pair before the season is through and Gardiner will again be considered very good again the same that happen with Rielly after being played with another partner last year.

One last item when he was hurt last year we played very well without him. He is a 3rd pair D man he can kill penalties in my opinion.

 

[pcruz]

This poll removes all doubt that many know very little about hockey and simply turn on the TV and listen to what commentators spew... people dislike Don Cherry but he had it right Z is a giveaway machine and makes bad reads which leave his partner hanging out to dry. He misses so many rotations and i hazard to guess most on here miss them as they fail to understand what system in the D zone we are playing. Watch what Gardiner does next game for the first period and then the second period watch what Z does. See if they match. Then watch Reilly’s pairing and see if they match Gardiner or Z.

When all D man are playing the same and one is not.. tell me who is playing outside of the system. I said this all the time last year and no one believed me. Some are starting to see it. Our issue is we need an upgrade and I believe we will see Z play 3 pair before the season is through and Gardiner will again be considered very good again the same that happen with Rielly after being played with another partner last year.

One last item when he was hurt last year we played very well without him. He is a 3rd pair D man he can kill penalties in my opinion.

Were you not one of those people who adamantly stated as fact that any team with Kessel on it would never sniff a championship?
Were you not one of those people who stated as fact that Kessel is one of the worst players in the league?

Yeah, I'll take your knowledge and judgement with an Everest sized grain of salt.

 

[diceman934]

Were you not one of those people who adamantly stated as fact that any team with Kessel on it would never sniff a championship?
Were you not one of those people who stated as fact that Kessel is one of the worst players in the league?

Yeah, I'll take your knowledge and judgement with an Everest sized grain of salt.

Swing and a miss....

 

[Mr Hockey]

This poll removes all doubt that many know very little about hockey and simply turn on the TV and listen to what commentators spew... people dislike Don Cherry but he had it right Z is a giveaway machine and makes bad reads which leave his partner hanging out to dry. He misses so many rotations and i hazard to guess most on here miss them as they fail to understand what system in the D zone we are playing. Watch what Gardiner does next game for the first period and then the second period watch what Z does. See if they match. Then watch Reilly’s pairing and see if they match Gardiner or Z.

When all D man are playing the same and one is not.. tell me who is playing outside of the system. I said this all the time last year and no one believed me. Some are starting to see it. Our issue is we need an upgrade and I believe we will see Z play 3 pair before the season is through and Gardiner will again be considered very good again the same that happen with Rielly after being played with another partner last year.

One last item when he was hurt last year we played very well without him. He is a 3rd pair D man he can kill penalties in my opinion.

You are the guy that says/said Marner is better than Eichel and equal to or better than Mcdavid from what I remember, I would go easy on cutting up other peoples knowledge of the game.

 

[Polaris1010]

This poll removes all doubt that many know very little about hockey and simply turn on the TV and listen to what commentators spew...

Not disagreeing with your view, as a Leafs fan, all I can say if the forwards happen to come back into their own zone and have a clue, that already is a big success in the back check.

To ask for even more, such as execution on the breakout, is pushing it, a lot.

Just ice it, like Polak did, or does.

 

[diceman934]

Were you not one of those people who adamantly stated as fact that any team with Kessel on it would never sniff a championship?
Were you not one of those people who stated as fact that Kessel is one of the worst players in the league?

Yeah, I'll take your knowledge and judgement with an Everest sized grain of salt.

I was I believe the only one who stated Finn would struggle to be an NHL player and stated that we drafted him to high. I also said Percy was a AHL D man.

About Kessel I said that the Leafs would not win with him as you can not build around a one demensional winger.

 

[pcruz]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/phil-kessel-traded-part-ii.1921977/page-22#post-104697063

I say this trade will cost Rutherford his job!

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/phil-kessel-discussion-thread.1791751/page-13#post-96843647


Anyone who thinks Kessel is not part of the problem is not paying attention as well as not using their eyes....

Out of shape...yes
Will not take direction. ..yes
A negative leader...yes
He has been here for six years and is not an assistant captain.

Should not be hard to figure out...He is an offensive player getting by currently on his natural skill....it will catch up to him..here needs to go and the sooner the better...as his value will only head downwards.



Hell, just go through these: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/search/413741/?page=13&q=kessel&o=date&c[user][0]=107154

 

[diceman934]

You are the guy that says/said Marner is better than Eichel and equal to or better than Mcdavid from what I remember, I would go easy on cutting up other peoples knowledge of the game.

Lol. Post where I said that he is equal to Mcdavid...

I said that Marner is better then Eichel as Eichel is a piss poor team mate and a me first player. I stand by that opinion.

 

[diceman934]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/phil-kessel-traded-part-ii.1921977/page-22#post-104697063

I say this trade will cost Rutherford his job!

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/phil-kessel-discussion-thread.1791751/page-13#post-96843647


Anyone who thinks Kessel is not part of the problem is not paying attention as well as not using their eyes....

Out of shape...yes
Will not take direction. ..yes
A negative leader...yes
He has been here for six years and is not an assistant captain.

Should not be hard to figure out...He is an offensive player getting by currently on his natural skill....it will catch up to him..here needs to go and the sooner the better...as his value will only head downwards.



Hell, just go through these: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/search/413741/?page=13&q=kessel&o=date&c[user][0]=107154

Yes he was all that when he was here. And the Pens are looking to dump him right now.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

They are currently pretty even if one look at their performances. But then Gardiner is a year older and has 300+ NHL games under his belt. So one might believe Zaitsev will still be able to take a step or two in his development and surpass Gardiner.

And the Zaitsev I saw playing in the World Cup for Team Russia prior to joining our team was a very good defensive player, best on the team actually imo. So he does have a lot of upside still.

Gardiner can however have his game when he is unstoppable, at least when going forward. And if Z have that gear in him I dont know.

 

[Confucius]

Zaitsev must be extremely strong on his skates. Anybody else remember Hall getting knocked on his ass last night when he ran into Zaits, and Zaitsev barely moved an inch or so.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Lol. Post where I said that he is equal to Mcdavid...

I said that Marner is better then Eichel as Eichel is a piss poor team mate and a me first player. I stand by that opinion.

You said it "many" times in the old Marner threads,and I am not going to waste my time searching , you know you said it lol

 

[diceman934]

You said it "many" times in the old Marner threads,and I am not going to waste my time searching , you know you said it lol

Ok I said it many times now...yet you can not post one time I said it. Wrong

 

[Mr Hockey]

Ok I said it many times now...yet you can not post one time I said it. Wrong

Sorry, I am not searching your posting history for the last 2 years lol ... Curious as to why Babcock doesn't seem to share your opinion of Zaitsev. Are trying to say your more skilled and knowledgeable coach than Babcock?

Gardiner leads the team in giveaways and you praise him and call Zaitsev a giveaway machine! lol smh

 

[diceman934]

Sorry, I am not searching your posting history for the last 2 years lol ... Curious as to why Babcock doesn't seem to share your opinion of Zaitsev. Are trying to say your more skilled and knowledgeable coach than Babcock?

Gardiner leads the team in giveaways and you praise him and call Zaitsev a giveaway machine! lol smh

When did I praise Gardiner for his giveaways?

Gardiner has the puck far more than Z and should have far more giveaways than Z... you do understand that do you not?


I do not know who Babs thinks is a better D man. Do you?

I only gave my opinion and I say it is not even close. Remember Babs played Polak a hell of a lot last year and even this year Hyman leads the forwards in ice time does that mean he thinks Hyman is our best Forward?

 

[Mr Hockey]

When did I praise Gardiner for his giveaways?

Gardiner has the puck far more than Z and should have far more giveaways than Z... you do understand that do you not?

I do not know who Babs thinks is a better D man. Do you?

I only gave my opinion and I say it is not even close. Remember Babs played Polak a hell of a lot last year and even this year Hyman leads the forwards in ice time does that mean he thinks Hyman is our best Forward?

So according to you, Gardiner has more touches than Zaitsev has, show me the stats?

According to you, Zaitsev is pretty much a disaster but Babcock uses him as the top pairing pk and endgame shutdown guy?

You may know more than some but you also know less than others, ...

 

[Confucius]

Sorry, I am not searching your posting history for the last 2 years lol ... Curious as to why Babcock doesn't seem to share your opinion of Zaitsev. Are trying to say your more skilled and knowledgeable coach than Babcock?

Gardiner leads the team in giveaways and you praise him and call Zaitsev a giveaway machine! lol smh

well that explains how Zaitsev leads the league in blocked shots.

Just stirring the pot

 

[diceman934]

So according to you, Gardiner has more touches than Zaitsev has, show me the stats?

According to you, Zaitsev is pretty much a disaster but Babcock uses him as the top pairing pk and endgame shutdown guy?

You may know more than some but you also know less than others, ...

So according to you, Gardiner has more touches than Zaitsev has, show me the stats?

According to you, Zaitsev is pretty much a disaster but Babcock uses him as the top pairing pk and endgame shutdown guy?

You may know more than some but you also know less than others, ...

priceless...you claim I said something I never said and when challenged to post proof you refuse, and now you want me to post stats that prove that Gardiner has the puck far more than Z when anyone can see that for themselves.

Just because he uses Z on the top Pk unit means only that he likes him to get that assignment as he is not on the PP not playing against the top lines of other teams. Many teams do not use their top D man to kill penalties...

Right now Babs is using his D man in what he thinks gives us the best chance to win. Rielly plays against the other teams top players with his partner Hainsey who is playing less 5 on 5 minutes then Gardiner and Z . Hainsey plays the most PK minutes while Rielly plays the most PP minutes.



Remember last year Polak got more PK minutes then any other D man does that mean Polak was better than other D man? Of course not.