Post-Game Talk: Game XVI - Pens Get Metrodomed

[Ryder71]

Hope they lose tomorrow 4-3 in OT.

 

[Ryder71]

Hey guys, the coach can't turn back father time, and now that Sid has had a great couple of weeks Geno has retreated. We can't compete against the best night in and night out. I think it's time to do a massive sell off. I understand they won't but THEY Should.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Hey guys, the coach can't turn back father time, and now that Sid has had a great couple of weeks Geno has retreated. We can't compete against the best night in and night out. I think it's time to do a massive sell off. I understand they won't but THEY Should.

Yeah let’s sell everyone before trying a new coach.

What a great idea…. lolz

 

[DesertedPenguin]

anyone else getting the same vibe about Rakell’s game as McCann and Kapanen’s?

Nope. Rakell has had this issue before. In 2018-19, he went 15 games between goals, including a 12 game stretch where he had just one point.

He had another 15-game goalless stretch in 2019-20. And in 2020-21, he scored just one goal in his first 20 games amidst the lowest shooting percentage season of his career.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I feel like it's been this exact problem since like... Ever. How long has it been that if Sid or Geno's lines are humming, the team's dead in the water?

 

[66-30-33]

Yeah let’s sell everyone before trying a new coach.

What a great idea…. lolz

That's what I was thinking.

New coach before anything else.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

anyone else getting the same vibe about Rakell’s game as McCann and Kapanen’s?

Not really. Rakell was pretty meh for a few seasons before the Pens got him. Kap was never anything. McCann landed in a spot where the team could build a line around him, and that just wasn't ever gonna happen here for whatever reason. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

Nope. Rakell has had this issue before. In 2018-19, he went 15 games between goals, including a 12 game stretch where he had just one point.

He had another 15-game goalless stretch in 2019-20. And in 2020-21, he scored just one goal in his first 20 games amidst the lowest shooting percentage season of his career.

I’m more speaking towards the lack of effort in attempting to get him going.

I feel like it's been this exact problem since like... Ever. How long has it been that if Sid or Geno's lines are humming, the team's dead in the water?

Since Mike Sullivan became the main coach.

 

[Turin]

They need to change the powerplay. They need to draw more, and convert at at least 20% to have a chance. They don’t have the roster build to survive a 15% pp with fewest penalties drawn in the league.

Karlsson, Crosby, Malkin and Guentzel and you’re at 15%?

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

I feel like it's been this exact problem since like... Ever. How long has it been that if Sid or Geno's lines are humming, the team's dead in the water?

When this team, hell any team, has won cups it had scoring from all 4 lines, but especially a good to great third line

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I’m more speaking towards the lack of effort in attempting to get him going.



Since Mike Sullivan became the main coach.

There is only so much any coach can do. Rakell has been playing with two guys in Malkin and Smith who have had zero problem producing. If you can't score with those guys, it's a problem. Until recently, he was shooting the puck a fair amount. He was back up to 4 shots tonight.

Hell, he's even going to the net like usual.

If he wasn't shooting, if he wasn't going to the net, then yeah, there are things a coach can do. But the guy is doing a lot of things right in terms of the process.

He has the 4th most shots on the team during 5-on-5 behind GCR. He has the 4th most independent high danger chances on the team behind GCR. He just can't buy a goal.

I know people want to swap him with Rust, but I am hesitant to break up an extremely productive line to try to fix other issues.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just think Rakell's not as good as he seemed last season, and he's going through a drought like most players of his caliber do (middle-6 guy, arguably closer to 3rd liner than 2nd). Again, he's been a 45-50pt guy for something like 275 games prior to coming over here--so roughly a handful of seasons. I just think this is more in line with the kind of player he is, not the ~30g, 60pt guy we saw last year. That feels like a pretty big outlier all things considered.

My issue is that this team *refuses* to put someone like Rakell on the top unit in place of Jake. Just put a bigger body on the top unit, and tell them their only responsibility is to park their ass in the goalie's face every time there's a man advantage. That's it. If you get a stick on a puck, it'll be a deflection or rebound, but your only job is to screen the goalie and piss off him and try to draw the PKer(s) down low.

Since Mike Sullivan became the main coach.

When this team, hell any team, has won cups it had scoring from all 4 lines, but especially a good to great third line

Yeah, that's what I'm gettin' at, I guess. This team doesn't need to (and probably shouldn't) invest in having a $6-7 million AAV guy like Staal or Kessel on their 3rd line, but they seem to have wholly abandoned any desire to have bottom-6 guys who can pressure and cycle, let alone produce with any regularity, for yeeeears.

They want their bottom-6 guys to be lines that play the opposition to a draw with the lowest event hockey imaginable. It sucks shit.

 

[Gurglesons]

There is only so much any coach can do. Rakell has been playing with two guys in Malkin and Smith who have had zero problem producing. If you can't score with those guys, it's a problem. Until recently, he was shooting the puck a fair amount. He was back up to 4 shots tonight.

Hell, he's even going to the net like usual.

If he wasn't shooting, if he wasn't going to the net, then yeah, there are things a coach can do. But the guy is doing a lot of things right in terms of the process.

He has the 4th most shots on the team during 5-on-5 behind GCR. He has the 4th most independent high danger chances on the team behind GCR. He just can't buy a goal.

I know people want to swap him with Rust, but I am hesitant to break up an extremely productive line to try to fix other issues.

I'm not even saying I'm upset with Rakell much like I wasn't upset with McCann or Kapanen. And I don't think any of these three aren't partially responsible for what happened to them.

It's just very weird that these offensive only forwards keep going through these absurd scoring droughts after they look really good through their first year with the team.

I just think Rakell's not as good as he seemed last season, and he's going through a drought like most players of his caliber do (middle-6 guy, arguably closer to 3rd liner than 2nd). Again, he's been a 45-50pt guy for something like 275 games prior to coming over here--so roughly a handful of seasons. I just think this is more in line with the kind of player he is, not the ~30g, 60pt guy we saw last year. That feels like a pretty big outlier all things considered.

My issue is that this team *refuses* to put someone like Rakell on the top unit in place of Jake. Just put a bigger body on the top unit, and tell them their only responsibility is to park their ass in the goalie's face every time there's a man advantage. That's it. If you get a stick on a puck, it'll be a deflection or rebound, but your only job is to screen the goalie and piss off him and try to draw the PKer(s) down low.

I'm not surprised Rakell isn't producing like last year, but the amount he isn't in conjunction with what we saw from McCann and Kapanen after their first year here just makes me really question what is happening in the room.

Graves made the comment about this huge difference between Ruff and Sullivan's system. Something's up.

 

[Andy99]

Pens are the second worse team in the Metro, just above the Blue Jackets, and are 3 points out of a WC spot with 2 games to go before Thanksgiving…whats the adage about being 4 points (is it?) out of the playoffs by Thanksgiving ? Cutting perilously close…..don’t See how they beat either the Knights or Rags quite honestly

 

[Tender Rip]

But at least we are trying everything

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm not even saying I'm upset with Rakell much like I wasn't upset with McCann or Kapanen. And I don't think any of these three aren't partially responsible for what happened to them.

It's just very weird that these offensive only forwards keep going through these absurd scoring droughts after they look really good through their first year with the team.

I'm not surprised Rakell isn't producing like last year, but the amount he isn't in conjunction with what we saw from McCann and Kapanen after their first year here just makes me really question what is happening in the room.

Graves made the comment about this huge difference between Ruff and Sullivan's system. Something's up.

Here's what Graves said:
“I think it's been better each game, to be honest,” Graves said. “There’s a learning curve to it. I think there’s been a learning curve for me coming to a new system that’s been very different than the system that I played in [New] Jersey. Jersey plays a system unlike any other team in the league.”

Here's Ruff on the difference. It begins at 9:28 or so:
Paraphrased, the Devils are a lot more aggressive pressuring the puck in the defensive zone. Ruff said they don't just stay inside, they put the onus on pressuring the puck. He said it's an adjustment and they do it more than any other teams, and that it's different.



To me, Graves wasn't suggesting that the Penguins' system is good or bad. Just that it's an extreme difference from New Jersey, which does something practically no other team in the league does.

As far as Rakell, McCann, Kapanen, et al, they're streaky goal scorers. McCann's first year in Seattle was the same goal scoring pace as his last year in Pittsburgh. He exploded for 40 in his second year, but now he's more on a 30-goal pace.

Kapanen is on pace for 16 goals this season despite being on the first line with Thomas and Buchenvich.

Rakell is the best of the bunch because he can actually do other things to help you, whereas McCann and Kapanen are all offense. But he's still streaky and always has been.

 

[66-30-33]

Pens are the second worse team in the Metro, just above the Blue Jackets, and are 3 points out of a WC spot with 2 games to go before Thanksgiving…whats the adage about being 4 points (is it?) out of the playoffs by Thanksgiving ? Cutting perilously close…..don’t See how they beat either Knights or Rags

Back to our 3-6 record?

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

I'm don't know about the stats, but I can't believe there would be a more pathetic power play in this league than what Penguins have. Considering what they have on paper, it's an absolute disgrace.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not even saying I'm upset with Rakell much like I wasn't upset with McCann or Kapanen. And I don't think any of these three aren't partially responsible for what happened to them.

It's just very weird that these offensive only forwards keep going through these absurd scoring droughts after they look really good through their first year with the team.



I'm not surprised Rakell isn't producing like last year, but the amount he isn't in conjunction with what we saw from McCann and Kapanen after their first year here just makes me really question what is happening in the room.

Graves made the comment about this huge difference between Ruff and Sullivan's system. Something's up.

I don't think anything's "up". And fwiw, we agree Sullivan sucks and he's years past his expiration, so let me just get that out there before you spiral out of control. I just think this team's as mediocre and flat as we all predicted this summer after looking at the roster and realizing who the coach was. Bottom-6 can't score for shit, PP is still an issue, goaltending's still an issue, coaching's still an issue. Checklist from the past half decade is pretty much exactly the same as it's been.

We all pretty much tagged them to be a borderline WC team and that's probably where they'll end up. They're 8-8-0 through 16 games this season as opposed to 6-7-3 through 16 games last season.

Thank god they landed Karlsson though. The thought of no Karlsson but having Granlund and Petry on this team is wretched.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

anyone else getting the same vibe about Rakell’s game as McCann and Kapanen’s?

They just need to learn to play the right way.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We all pretty much tagged them to be a borderline WC team and that's probably where they'll end up. They're 8-8-0 through 16 games this season as opposed to 6-7-3 through 16 games last season.

Thank god they landed Karlsson though. The thought of no Karlsson but having Granlund and Petry on this team is wretched.

I think the fact they improved the roster with adding Karlsson and Smith over Petry and Zucker from last year and the record is almost exactly the same speaks volumes about the one change they didn't (and refuse to) make.

Like, it's not a Cup contending roster. But it should be *better* than the one from last year just due to the Karlsson addition alone. Yet here we are.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Rakell is fine. He's a decent top 6 RW who is playing ok but wasteful with his chances. His center is also generating very little at 5-on-5.

He'll score 15-18 this year.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think anything's "up". And fwiw, we agree Sullivan sucks and he's years past his expiration, so let me just get that out there before you spiral out of control. I just think this team's as mediocre and flat as we all predicted this summer after looking at the roster and realizing who the coach was. Bottom-6 can't score for shit, PP is still an issue, goaltending's still an issue, coaching's still an issue. Checklist from the past half decade is pretty much exactly the same as it's been.

We all pretty much tagged them to be a borderline WC team and that's probably where they'll end up. They're 8-8-0 through 16 games this season as opposed to 6-7-3 through 16 games last season.

Thank god they landed Karlsson though. The thought of no Karlsson but having Granlund and Petry on this team is wretched.

Something is up when you consistently cycle in new faces and get the same results.

Hell look at Washington.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Something is up when you consistently cycle in new faces and get the same results.

Hell look at Washington.

Can't wait to trade Rakell, trade maybe one of Guentzel or Rust, trade Pettersson, bring in a bunch of new faces to fill those roles, and we see the same exact result again.

Maybe it'll take the entire roster, including Sid, Geno and Tanger, being traded for the organization to realize what the main issue is.

 

[Gurglesons]

Can't wait to trade Rakell, trade maybe one of Guentzel or Rust, trade Pettersson, bring in a bunch of new faces to fill those roles, and we see the same exact result again.

Maybe it'll take the entire roster, including Sid, Geno and Tanger, being traded for the organization to realize what the main issue is.

It’s not even that. Acciari hasn’t scored a single goal and has been good for a ten plus spot on bad teams every year. Same with Nieto.

There is something up with how we utilize forwards that does not allow them to score and it’s been happening for four seasons with multiple players.

And if the argument is they scored because they were on bad teams Nieto and Acciari put up good goal numbers on both Colorado and Toronto.