Post-Game Talk: Game V: Pens loss to Blues

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Man, I don't think we should try anything, I would hate to miss the playoffs.

-Mike Sullivan, again, probably

 

[HandshakeLine]

I told you, my name is Sike Mulligan, but I have to say that Mike Sullivan guy is very handsome and super smart.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Since the 2015-16 season, when Sullivan was promoted and the Pens won the Cup, there have been 33 other midseason coaching changes in the NHL.

Of those 33 changes:
19 missed the playoffs
7 made the playoffs but did not win a series
2 made it to the second round
2 made it to the conference finals
2 made it to the Stanley Cup Final but lost
1 won the Stanley Cup

In other words, 7 out of 33 got out of the first round, which is what we're hoping the Pens would do. Of the three that made it to the Stanley Cup, one was Montreal during the restructured playoffs and the other was Dallas, which fired Jim Montgomery for personal reasons, not because the team was struggling. The last was St. Louis, which fired Mike Yeo for Craig Berube.

Penguins' fans have a skewed view of what happens when you fire a coach midseason. Most of the time, nothing really changes.

 

[Josey Wales]

Oh. So. He said he wouldn't GM anywhere else.

Then did.

Well Skeeziks once he was FIRED he would obviously want another job, I know this is really hard for you to Grasp

The stars are a lot of the problem when we're talking Guentzel/Crosby at 5-on-5 and the Powerplay. But since they are Mike's favorite duo of all time he is also part of that issue.

I would at least remove both from PP1 immediately. Malkin - Smith -Rakell-Zohorna (net front)-Karlsson would be a huge improvement

FFS Sid wants Jake & Rust on his f***ing line, Can you geniuses understand that, Just like he wanted Kunitz & Dupuis on his line

 

[Josey Wales]

Since the 2015-16 season, when Sullivan was promoted and the Pens won the Cup, there have been 33 other midseason coaching changes in the NHL.

Of those 33 changes:
19 missed the playoffs
7 made the playoffs but did not win a series
2 made it to the second round
2 made it to the conference finals
2 made it to the Stanley Cup Final but lost
1 won the Stanley Cup

In other words, 7 out of 33 got out of the first round, which is what we're hoping the Pens would do. Of the three that made it to the Stanley Cup, one was Montreal during the restructured playoffs and the other was Dallas, which fired Jim Montgomery for personal reasons, not because the team was struggling. The last was St. Louis, which fired Mike Yeo for Craig Berube.

Penguins' fans have a skewed view of what happens when you fire a coach midseason. Most of the time, nothing really changes.

NO NO NO ! They would totally go off on an amazing Run Because Sullivan is the Problem for the Pens stars halfassing it, Inflation shitty economy & the War in Israel

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't care if we miss the playoffs again as long as we don't have to watch horrible boring slopshit hockey.

But loving the total strawman argument there! It's a classic for a reason.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I don't care if we miss the playoffs again as long as we don't have to watch horrible boring slopshit hockey.

But loving the total strawman argument there! It's a classic for a reason.

I thought the whole purpose of reupping the core was to maximize their chances of one last run.

Now it's OK to burn a season in order to get the coach fired?

If you want to fire Sullivan, fine. But there better be a legit plan.

 

[pistolpete11]

I thought the whole purpose of reupping the core was to maximize their chances of one last run.

Now it's OK to burn a season in order to get the coach fired?

If you want to fire Sullivan, fine. But there better be a legit plan.

I want to see the coach fired so that we don't burn another season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I thought the whole purpose of reupping the core was to maximize their chances of one last run.

Now it's OK to burn a season in order to get the coach fired?

If you want to fire Sullivan, fine. But there better be a legit plan.

That was the plan last year. We have wasted that year. This year is circling the bowl.

I don't want to waste a season just to fire Sullivan. Sullivan should be fired because this team is going nowhere and maybe firing the coach sparks that huge-cap overhaul into something not embarrassing or boring.

It most likely won't. Just like keeping the coach isn't going to do anything. So in the end, I would prefer to fire the coach and watch more entertaining hockey than keep the coach, play terrible hockey, and not do any different in the standings just to keep our coach's ego comfortable.

But hey, want to argue anything else that I didn't mention?

Like I cannot make it any clearer that I find Sullivan's hockey boring and terrible and I think it's doing an active disservice to this team's legacy to let it fester, but hell, there's a coach for everyone. People even loved Bylsma at the end.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

NO NO NO ! They would totally go off on an amazing Run Because Sullivan is the Problem for the Pens stars halfassing it, Inflation shitty economy & the War in Israel

Hard disagree with that sweeping statement. EK and Geno are whole assing it right now. Tanger and Sid are a bit concerning though

 

[Turin]

It's been almost 8 years, Sullivan is definitely warranting a new job.

However, I don't expect they push that button unless the team is absolutely dogshit in November/early December. I don't expect the team to be that bad. Therefor, Dubas should at least be looking at the assistants. This team is built to be reliant on their top six for 5 on 5 offense and should have good special teams. The special teams haven't been good for a long time now. Its a small sample size, but the PK is sub 80% still after 5 games. That is unacceptable when you spend an offseason bringing in guys like Acciari, Smith, and Eller. The PP should also be awesome with Malkin looking like he's in his prime, and Karlsson and Smith brought in. But the powerplay is exactly where it was last year after 5 games.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I don't care if we miss the playoffs again as long as we don't have to watch horrible boring slopshit hockey.

But loving the total strawman argument there! It's a classic for a reason.

This. The Sabres played some fun ass hockey last season, while still missing the POs. Would prefer this to the stale ass product we've been served the past half decade or so

 

[pistolpete11]

Hard disagree with that sweeping statement. EK and Geno are whole assing it right now. Tanger and Sid are a bit concerning though

Sid's in his Mike Johnston mode. He knows this shit isn't going anywhere, so why bother putting in max effort?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Revenge of the Sully...

Game day lineup...

 

[Gurglesons]

It's been almost 8 years, Sullivan is definitely warranting a new job.

However, I don't expect they push that button unless the team is absolutely dogshit in November/early December. I don't expect the team to be that bad. Therefor, Dubas should at least be looking at the assistants. This team is built to be reliant on their top six for 5 on 5 offense and should have good special teams. The special teams haven't been good for a long time now. Its a small sample size, but the PK is sub 80% still after 5 games. That is unacceptable when you spend an offseason bringing in guys like Acciari, Smith, and Eller. The PP should also be awesome with Malkin looking like he's in his prime, and Karlsson and Smith brought in. But the powerplay is exactly where it was last year after 5 games.

Expecting this team to be able to go on a run like it could be in 08-09 and 15-16 is a fool’s errand.

This team is getting completely rocked in entire periods. We can’t even get to OT anymore.

If Dubas is serious about this team making the playoffs he has to be serious about finding a solution within the first 10-15 games if this continues.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's been almost 8 years, Sullivan is definitely warranting a new job.

However, I don't expect they push that button unless the team is absolutely dogshit in November/early December. I don't expect the team to be that bad. Therefor, Dubas should at least be looking at the assistants. This team is built to be reliant on their top six for 5 on 5 offense and should have good special teams. The special teams haven't been good for a long time now. Its a small sample size, but the PK is sub 80% still after 5 games. That is unacceptable when you spend an offseason bringing in guys like Acciari, Smith, and Eller. The PP should also be awesome with Malkin looking like he's in his prime, and Karlsson and Smith brought in. But the powerplay is exactly where it was last year after 5 games.

Yeah, like at the very least, the coaching is failing this team (and has been failing this team) where it is most applicable: special teams. It's the one thing under the coaches' direct control and it has been underperforming year after year. This is a team with a spotty roster, not without talent. It has seen several full compliment of players who play the game like the coach says he wants it. So, at some point, it has to give.

A different question: who is happy with our game, honestly?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

At midseason, yes, the options are quite limited.

You can cross off anyone currently employed by an NHL team. You won't get permission to even talk to them. Midseason replacements are almost always hired internally, either a current assistant coach or the head coach of an AHL team.

On the rare occasion that a midseason replacement is an external candidate, it is someone who is either a) not currently coaching, just like Tocchet was on TV before going to Vancouver; or b) coaching outside of the NHL system like Martin St. Louis was before being hired by Montreal.

That is a shallow pool.

And, again, you're looking for someone who the Penguins would want to jumpstart their chances of making the playoffs. This isn't Chicago, where they can make a change, hire their AHL coach, and tank the rest of the year.

If the Pens fire Sullivan, it'll be an immediate course correction to try to win immediately. I get being unhappy with Sulivan, but if you think Reirden, Vellucci or Forrest are going to suddenly get this team to the playoffs, you're out of your mind.

I’ll take Vellucci or Reirden over Sullivan at that f***ing point just to coach the rest of the season and then do a search.

Mate. Any f***ing thing is better than Sullivan for one more game longer.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I dunno if Sid's just half-assing it or if he's playing the way Sullivan's asking him to.

Either way; I wish he'd take a page out of Geno's book and just do his own thing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Since the 2015-16 season, when Sullivan was promoted and the Pens won the Cup, there have been 33 other midseason coaching changes in the NHL.

Of those 33 changes:
19 missed the playoffs
7 made the playoffs but did not win a series
2 made it to the second round
2 made it to the conference finals
2 made it to the Stanley Cup Final but lost
1 won the Stanley Cup

In other words, 7 out of 33 got out of the first round, which is what we're hoping the Pens would do. Of the three that made it to the Stanley Cup, one was Montreal during the restructured playoffs and the other was Dallas, which fired Jim Montgomery for personal reasons, not because the team was struggling. The last was St. Louis, which fired Mike Yeo for Craig Berube.

Penguins' fans have a skewed view of what happens when you fire a coach midseason. Most of the time, nothing really changes.

I'd be curious to know exactly when you'd be on board with firing Sullivan. Seems that no matter how the team performs, with the same issues year after year, you're always pushing back on the idea that Sullivan's the issue.

Are we going to be discussing this issue in 2033 with a full decade of these same issues and you'll still come up with reasons for why he shouldn't be fired?

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I'd be curious to know exactly when you'd be on board with firing Sullivan. Seems that no matter how the team performs, with the same issues year after year, you're always pushing back on the idea that Sullivan's the issue.

Are we going to be discussing this issue in 2033 with a full decade of these same issues and you'll still come up with reasons for why he shouldn't be fired?

2 cups is enough for some people to keep Sully until he quite literally passes away on the bench

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I dunno if Sid's just half-assing it or if he's playing the way Sullivan's asking him to.

Either way; I wish he'd take a page out of Geno's book and just do his own thing.

The worst thing is that Sullivan is going to swap Rust and Rakell and ruin both lines. Because he really has no idea how to fix anything and it’s the same rinse and repeat bs for solutions. When you refuse to use other options for so long that you stifled your own options, can’t feel sorry for a bloke that’s just that insanely narrow minded.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I’ll take Vellucci or Reirden over Sullivan at that f***ing point just to coach the rest of the season and then do a search.

Mate. Any f***ing thing is better than Sullivan for one more game longer.

I don't think people remember how lifeless the Caps were under Reirden. If you think the Pens are dull now, it'll be worse under Reirden.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think people remember how lifeless the Caps were under Reirden. If you think the Pens are dull now, it'll be worse under Reirden.

Be careful what you wish for.

That's like staying in a toxic relationship until you meet someone you think could work and then breaking up.

Like I said, Vellucci or Reirden. I don't give a f***. I'd rather no one on that bench remains tomorrow. Dubas can hire some tosser from the Greyhounds for all I f***ing care. They need this entire coaching staff gone, yesterday.

 

[Josey Wales]

I don't think people remember how lifeless the Caps were under Reirden. If you think the Pens are dull now, it'll be worse under Reirden.

Be careful what you wish for.

Doesn't Matter because as soon as Sullivan is fired They would start bitching about whoever takes over, so they never have to blame their Heroes

 

[66-30-33]

Sully gone, BB hired. He’s had plenty of experience with rosters like ours.