TV: Game of Thrones | Series Finale GDT

[Jack Straw]

 

[Bob Richards]

So, Jon actually abandoned his post with the Night's Watch to go live north with he Wildlings, right?

The compromise was Jon being sent to the watch to appease the Unsullied whose personal opinions apparently matter for some reason. Then they left the continent anyway.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Yeah, mentioning the brothels was a good way to remind us that we were still watching Game of Thrones lol

Well, Tyrion has had quite the dry spell so I feel like he's earned it.

 

[GabeTravels]

Presumably the small council scene takes place at a minimum a few months after Bran was chosen. The book was finished by the maester which had to take some time.

 

[4thline]

Yea she nailed it for sure. The most chilling part about it is you only need to make a few small changes and it's the same speech she has given before.

I thought between her speech and Tyrion's to Jon they did a really good job covering the "turn" almost exactly as it was defended in these threads.

 

[Burner Account]

Maybe there are some. Don't think there are nearly as many as you would claim, and it is disappointing that people are framing the opposition as those who simply refused to get enjoyment out of a series they enjoyed previously.

At least based on what I saw - not exclusively on here but on Twitter, as well - I get the sense people gave up on the show weeks ago. And so for many of those people, it was never going to matter what happened in the last episode because the penultimate episode was the straw for them.

Much of the criticism is articulate and valid. Much of it is based on the show not unfolding the ways some wanted. I'm having a hard time distinguishing between the valid criticism and the hysteria. And that's not to say the majority of critics are hysteric - far from it. But a million-names-long petition to remake the season is hysteric.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The compromise was Jon being sent to the watch to appease the Unsullied whose personal opinions apparently matter for some reason. Then they left the continent anyway.

Also Grey Worm told Tyrion he couldn't speak as a prisoner then let him monologue immediately after.

Apparently the Unsullied are pushovers.

 

[David Dennison]

Well, Tyrion has had quite the dry spell so I feel like he's earned it.

When Grey Worm was like that punishment wasn't good enough for Tyrion, I was thinking they were gonna cut off little Tyrion lmao.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Tormund and Ghost were waiting for him (along with a large group of Wildlings) so my guess is there was never any intent for Jon to truly take the black and live out his life at Castle Black w/Night's Watch. That seemed more like lip service to Grey Worm (who was probably the biggest rube in the finale).

I think it was more a way for him to never press his claim along with a little exile. It doesn’t matter if it’s castle black or beyond the wall.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Also Grey Worm told Tyrion he couldn't speak as a prisoner then let him monologue immediately after.

Apparently the Unsullied are pushovers.

Oresumbely they have been under siege in KL for a while. Most likely low supplies. He was looking to save face, while also getting safe passage the hell out of there.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Oresumbely they have been under siege in KL for a while. Most likely low supplies. He was looking to save face, while also getting safe passage the hell out of there.

I doubt the Dothrayki would even follow him, I wouldn't be surprised if they were starting to go rogue. Also, what about the remainder of the North troops once Jon was locked up.

 

[SPV]

But in the end the show was always about the Starks. And the Starks won, so I am satisfied

and really didn't they deserve it, especially after losing Tony in End Game

 

[Blender]

Also Grey Worm told Tyrion he couldn't speak as a prisoner then let him monologue immediately after.

Apparently the Unsullied are pushovers.

He also had almost no leverage and little power. Maybe he could hold the city in a battle, execute Tyrion and Jon, but he'd lose most of the men he has left to do it and for what? Grey Worm has never been a politician, he was out-talked by people that are.

 

[bring back the jets]

Creative issues:

Brienne ends up in tears when Jaime rides off to be with Cersei--don't believe the tears; emotion, yes, but not weak girly stuff. From that character? No gushing like a jilted bridesmaid.

Dany's character could have gone either way and could be argued went the wrong way--she ends up an example of the sexist belief that women can't handle power without going crazy.

Arya ends up taking off for nowhere--might not her skills have been handy for the new regime after abandoning her quest to kill Cersei when the Hound talks her out of it at the last minute. Huh?

In terms of who has the best, most interesting story, the qualification Tyrion chooses as the litmus test for the new ruler, Arya's or Sansa's stories trump "lost in space" Bran's all to hell

The final Counsel has one woman on it--the usual "token" allotment

Good that Sansa rules Westeros, but maybe she should have inherited the Iron Throne.

Cersei is a force to be reckoned with, but has very little to do but look on as things happen to her in the final season.

Of the Big Five women in the series, one dies, one goes mad and dies, one is sent packing to parts unknown, one achieves limited power but not the big prize, and one is the token female in the new power structure. Nuts to that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With a smart female writer on board, a lot of this **** happens differently or not at all. Given the themes the series seemed to possess at one time, those changes would have been more appropriate for the message that Game of Thrones once stood for.

What are you even talking about lol?

Plenty of tough characters have cried (sidenote: it's funny hear you preach feminism while calling crying "weak girly crap").

Arya or Sansa as queen would be the worst ending ever. Arya is a lone wolf, and has been the whole time. Sansa went from an immateur child to a truly respectable character. In early seasons she drooled at the thought of been queen alongside Geofry. By the end she understood her true priorty was the North. Not sure why you act like those stories should trump bran's in the context of who should rule. They had awesome story arcs that ended well.

Dany's ending could have gone either way, sure. But the whole "starting out benevolent then turning murderous just like her father" part kind of throws the whole sexist angle out don't you think?

Cersei is the only point I agree with. The show shouldn't have just cast her aside so quickly this season. I don't consider it sexist though, just sloppy writing.

 

[David Dennison]

Presumably the small council scene takes place at a minimum a few months after Bran was chosen. The book was finished by the maester which had to take some time.

Shots fired at GRRM

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

This season was a mess. Bad writing and way too rushed. But because of that, I had lowered expectations going into the finale. Last night meet them and I was satisfied. Decent finale in a pretty poor season overall. Still a great show though. For as bad as the writing has been this season, the visuals have just been amazing.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't understand all the moaning and groaning and cries of sexism that are happening now. The Women were the biggest pillars of the show for almost it's entire run. So because they end up dying suddenly the writers are sexist and hate women? It's ludicrous, but I'm seeing these sentiments all over the Internet.

WE CANT EVER KILL FEMALE CHARACTERS AGAIN BECAUSE ITS SEXIST GUYS.

 

[David Dennison]

I don't understand all the moaning and groaning and cries of sexism that are happening now. The Women were the biggest pillars of the show for almost it's entire run. So because they end up dying suddenly the writers are sexist and hate women? It's ludicrous, but I'm seeing these sentiments all over the Internet.

WE CANT EVER KILL FEMALE CHARACTERS AGAIN BECAUSE ITS SEXIST GUYS.

I don't think that is the criticism regarding Sansa....

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Creative issues:

Brienne ends up in tears when Jaime rides off to be with Cersei--don't believe the tears; emotion, yes, but not weak girly stuff. From that character? No gushing like a jilted bridesmaid.

Dany's character could have gone either way and could be argued went the wrong way--she ends up an example of the sexist belief that women can't handle power without going crazy.

Arya ends up taking off for nowhere--might not her skills have been handy for the new regime after abandoning her quest to kill Cersei when the Hound talks her out of it at the last minute. Huh?

In terms of who has the best, most interesting story, the qualification Tyrion chooses as the litmus test for the new ruler, Arya's or Sansa's stories trump "lost in space" Bran's all to hell

The final Counsel has one woman on it--the usual "token" allotment

Good that Sansa rules Westeros, but maybe she should have inherited the Iron Throne.

Cersei is a force to be reckoned with, but has very little to do but look on as things happen to her in the final season.

Of the Big Five women in the series, one dies, one goes mad and dies, one is sent packing to parts unknown, one achieves limited power but not the big prize, and one is the token female in the new power structure. Nuts to that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With a smart female writer on board, a lot of this **** happens differently or not at all. Given the themes the series seemed to possess at one time, those changes would have been more appropriate for the message that Game of Thrones once stood for.

Can I agree and disagree here?

I absolutely agree that they should have had a female writer on board... disagree with quite a few of your points.

Why can't Brienne cry? We already know she is strong, brave, honest, one of the most decent people in Westeros. Why should showing your emotions and crying make you weak or "girly"? Honestly, **** that attitude. And even if it is "girly", why is that bad? Does it mean Brienne can only be awesome if she doesn't show a hint of "feminity"?

Regarding Dany... honestly, I don't think her being a woman had anything to do with her messiah complex (or going mad, if you want). I get that there is a hurtful, awful stereotype of "women-in-power-who-went-mad", and this is another storyline to add to that. I get why that's a problem. I guess I just like her storyline more - the subversion of the "savior" trope, where the abused character who grew up away from his/her country and is coming back to "save everyone" isn't always the best for the job. You could tweak her story arch, give it to a guy and it would work too, but I'd rather have eight seasons of Dany as a main character even knowing how it ends.

I also see Arya leaving as a victory for her character. She has once been a curious and adventurous kid with love for "guy things" and weapons. Over the years, she became this incredible assassin - and then she chooses to leave the faceless men, and in the 8th season she choses to give up vengeance. She could be an assasin or someone's spy, but the shows tells you that would make her lonely and probably dead in a ditch somewhere in a decade or two. Instead, she chooses a much healthier path, rejects the political games and being someone's pawn and goes back to her natural curiosity and love for adventure, choosing to become an explorer.

I absolutely agree that Sansa and Arya have a better story arch than Bran... not sure you can sell that to the "medieval audience" though. Even ignoring Arya would be terrible as a Queen, you can't exactly tell the people that she trained to be an assassin, murdered the Freys etc. - Westeros just had Cersei and Daenerys on the throne, they'll want someone non-violent and stable. Sansa would be a great choice but you need the Unsullied and other "Daenerys people" to support her and she is Jon Snow's sister who vocally opposed Dany. Yara would probably oppose Sansa (Bran is the one Stark she can't really oppose given Theon's history). That said, I agree that while "he survived being crippled, travelled across the Wall, has has magic visions and served as a bait to kill the Night King" is a strong story, so is "she survived being sold to a bunch of psychopats, got an ally/enemy to send her an army and made sure everyone had enough food" - Bran's story sounds more exciting and easier to make into songs but I know who I'd prefer on the throne. I think Sansa as a person will be much happier rulling the North, though - it's her home and she loves it there, she fought to get it back for years. I mean theoretically they could move the court to Winterfell but would the rest of Westeros agree to that? Don't think so.

Agreed 100% that the Council of white dudes + Brienne left a bad taste in my mouth.

And for all the arguments against Sansa ruling Westeros, I do have to say the separation of the North and her being Queen in the North feels like a "consolation prize" while there's a dude on the throne.

It would have been nice if Cersei had more space, but she had a rich character arch in seasons 1-7; there just wasn't much space left for her in S8 - and what new was there to add? I wish they have given Missandei more space in Season 8 though. It would have helped Dany's arch as well and emphasized the trauma of her losing her best friend.


Still, the "women character archs" are rich, enlightened and flawless compared to the Dothraki and Unsullied storylines

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think it was more a way for him to never press his claim along with a little exile. It doesn’t matter if it’s castle black or beyond the wall.

Press what claim? It's an elected office now! In reality it was a convenient way to get rid of Grey Worm, get Jon out of his crosshairs, get Jon some semblance of a "happy ending" and get Bran on the throne.

 

[Hammettf2b]

When Arya was watching Jon from a distance as he was making his way to meet Dany, I't reminded me of season 1 where she did the same with her father right before his head got cut off. Had me thinking Jon was going to die.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I don't understand all the moaning and groaning and cries of sexism that are happening now. The Women were the biggest pillars of the show for almost it's entire run. So because they end up dying suddenly the writers are sexist and hate women? It's ludicrous, but I'm seeing these sentiments all over the Internet.

WE CANT EVER KILL FEMALE CHARACTERS AGAIN BECAUSE ITS SEXIST GUYS.

I agree with you even though I'm unhappy about how Dany turned out. They stuck to the story regarding her family and history. There is nothing wrong with that. Sansa, Lara, Arya, Brianne come out on top as well.

 

[Knave]

Seems weird one kingdom could get their independence and barely a peep from the others. Lets remember when Boromir died several kingdoms rose up in revolt (individually) and others tried to make marriage deals to maintain control and power. But now they're fine giving it all up after going through a series of kings and rebellions to Bran? The title is Game of Thrones, not Game For The Throne.

That piece of the ending seemed designed to make Sansa Stark fans happy because it doesn't make too much sense outside that context.

It's a forgettable finale, the past 2 seasons have been bleh. They wrapped it up, it's over and time to move on. Hopefully it doesn't get rewarded with awards because it did nothing to earn an award.

I guess one last thing is I kind of laughed at Jon justifying Danerys and her actions to Tyrion. Seems the writers knew a lot of people would not be convinced by that jumbled mess from episodes 3 to 5.

 

[Blender]

Brienne ends up in tears when Jaime rides off to be with Cersei--don't believe the tears; emotion, yes, but not weak girly stuff. From that character? No gushing like a jilted bridesmaid.

This is an offensive take, congratulations. A strong character crying is not "weak girly stuff" who is "gushing like a jilted bridesmaid". Stunning that you complain about sexism in the writing but turn around and toss out these sexist takes as a complaint.

 

[kihei]

Can I agree and disagree here?

I absolutely agree that they should have had a female writer on board... disagree with quite a few of your points.

Why can't Brienne cry? We already know she is strong, brave, honest, one of the most decent people in Westeros. Why should showing your emotions and crying make you weak or "girly"? Honestly, **** that attitude. And even if it is "girly", why is that bad? Does it mean Brienne can only be awesome if she doesn't show a hint of "feminity"?

Regarding Dany... honestly, I don't think her being a woman had anything to do with her messiah complex (or going mad, if you want). I get that there is a hurtful, awful stereotype of "women-in-power-who-went-mad", and this is another storyline to add to that. I get why that's a problem. I guess I just like her storyline more - the subversion of the "savior" trope, where the abused character who grew up away from his/her country and is coming back to "save everyone" isn't always the best for the job. You could tweak her story arch, give it to a guy and it would work too, but I'd rather have eight seasons of Dany as a main character even knowing how it ends.

I also see Arya leaving as a victory for her character. She has once been a curious and adventurous kid with love for "guy things" and weapons. Over the years, she became this incredible assassin - and then she chooses to leave the faceless men, and in the 8th season she choses to give up vengeance. She could be an assasin or someone's spy, but the shows tells you that would make her lonely and probably dead in a ditch somewhere in a decade or two. Instead, she chooses a much healthier path, rejects the political games and being someone's pawn and goes back to her natural curiosity and love for adventure, choosing to become an explorer.

I absolutely agree that Sansa and Arya have a better story arch than Bran... not sure you can sell that to the "medieval audience" though. Even ignoring Arya would be terrible as a Queen, you can't exactly tell the people that she trained to be an assassin, murdered the Freys etc. - Westeros just had Cersei and Daenerys on the throne, they'll want someone non-violent and stable. Sansa would be a great choice but you need the Unsullied and other "Daenerys people" to support her and she is Jon Snow's sister who vocally opposed Dany. Yara would probably oppose Sansa (Bran is the one Stark she can't really oppose given Theon's history). That said, I agree that while "he survived being crippled, travelled across the Wall, has has magic visions and served as a bait to kill the Night King" is a strong story, so is "she survived being sold to a bunch of psychopats, got an ally/enemy to send her an army and made sure everyone had enough food" - Bran's story sounds more exciting and easier to make into songs but I know who I'd prefer on the throne. I think Sansa as a person will be much happier rulling the North, though - it's her home and she loves it there, she fought to get it back for years. I mean theoretically they could move the court to Winterfell but would the rest of Westeros agree to that? Don't think so.

Agreed 100% that the Council of white dudes + Brienne left a bad taste in my mouth.

And for all the arguments against Sansa ruling Westeros, I do have to say the separation of the North and her being Queen in the North feels like a "consolation prize" while there's a dude on the throne.

It would have been nice if Cersei had more space, but she had a rich character arch in seasons 1-7; there just wasn't much space left for her in S8 - and what new was there to add? I wish they have given Missandei more space in Season 8 though. It would have helped Dany's arch as well and emphasized the trauma of her losing her best friend.


Still, the "women character archs" are rich, enlightened and flawless compared to the Dothraki and Unsullied storylines

Fine post.

I just will comment on the "girly" bit. Nothing wrong with "girly" and "feminine" at all but in that moment it seemed jarringly out of character for Brienne to react to Jaime the way she did.