Post-Game Talk: Game IX Loss to Quacks: We didnt deserve to win that

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Pancakes

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They are currently a lottery seed at #5. At current expectations I don't see them moving up that ladder. Especially if they get on board and commit.
There's no way to commit to being that bad. The guys they have signed are signed forever. At most they could trade Jake but that's not moving the tanking needle appreciably.

This team is not going to pick in the lottery unless it has severe injury issues.

This bad start may well cost them a playoff spot and have them picking around 15th again though. And then San Jose gets that pick and Sullivan probably stays here. Mediocrity all around!
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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There's no way to commit to being that bad. The guys they have signed are signed forever. At most they could trade Jake but that's not moving the tanking needle appreciably.

This team is not going to pick in the lottery unless it has severe injury issues.

This bad start may well cost them a playoff spot and have them picking around 15th again though. And then San Jose gets that pick and Sullivan probably stays here. Mediocrity all around!
I dunno, man. On one hand, I agree that this team finds a way to end up in the worst possible spot--and that's where they were last season. On the other, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they stumbled and bumbled to a top-5 pick. Shit, I'm hoping for it.
 
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tom_servo

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I'm thinking it as a quick retool and get some of that youth to get things going as they shed some of the dead weight they amassed.

Don't know why next year has to be bad. Changes for the better will be made just for fact Carter is gone, and addition of some youth/legs hopefully that top pick or being 2nd helps.

What's dead in the water is what they have right now. Today.
I don't see how a quick retool is possible. The old core will decline further with another year, and there's not much in the pipe. Committed to a bad goalie. How do we acquire youth/legs?

Better to try something this year. Not sure how anyone can trust 87/71/58 will be even this good again.
 

Ugene Magic

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There's no way to commit to being that bad. The guys they have signed are signed forever. At most they could trade Jake but that's not moving the tanking needle appreciably.

This team is not going to pick in the lottery unless it has severe injury issues.

This bad start may well cost them a playoff spot and have them picking around 15th again though. And then San Jose gets that pick and Sullivan probably stays here. Mediocrity all around!

This team is not constructed to be 15th again. Like I said, they would have to commit. They are trying and losing games. Why strive to be 15th again? No playoffs and no great top pick. Lose/lose
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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The myth that a retool on the fly comes from teams that have an innate draw to lure big name FAs in. NYC, LA, Miami, etc. Pittsburgh is not that city.

They're gonna have to rebuild the grueling, but correct (imo) way; through the scouting, drafting and development. Yeah, it might take a decade, but that's the way it goes.
 
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Ugene Magic

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I don't see how a quick retool is possible. The old core will decline further with another year, and there's not much in the pipe. Committed to a bad goalie. How do we acquire youth/legs?

Better to try something this year. Not sure how anyone can trust 87/71/58 will be even this good again.
1. trying to get one of those 2 top picks.
2. loss of aging guys

The team wasn't this youth throughout the entire team for b2b's and the team isn't slow as a whole.

I'd rather go for what is actually attainable.
 

tom_servo

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1. trying to get one of those 2 top picks.
2. loss of aging guys

The team wasn't this youth throughout the entire team for b2b's and the team isn't slow as a whole.

I'd rather go for what is actually attainable.
I dunno, picking at #2 and ditching Carter who plays 8 minutes a game still doesn't seem like a quick retool to me.

We don't have the developing players of '16 and there's a chance the pillars holding up this team are basically finished by next season's end.

Personally I'm dreaming of a run in 2033.
 
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HandshakeLine

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There's no way to commit to being that bad. The guys they have signed are signed forever. At most they could trade Jake but that's not moving the tanking needle appreciably.

This team is not going to pick in the lottery unless it has severe injury issues.

This bad start may well cost them a playoff spot and have them picking around 15th again though. And then San Jose gets that pick and Sullivan probably stays here. Mediocrity all around!
It rules how we continuously made the absolute worst possible choice at nearly every crossroad.

well the "Reporters" have repeatedly said they want Sullivan, But Cognitive Dissonance & all I get you don't "know" that
I'm still not convinced you're not a malfunctioning ChatGPT prompt.
 

Victor Z

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We don't have the developing players of '16

There was a ton of luck involved with the "Wilkes-Barre 7" or whatever they were called. All of them, except maybe Dumoulin, got their big chance in Pittsburgh solely due to spots opening up via injuries. So it's not like Sully, even back then, was clamoring for youth; he used those guys because he had no choice.

Some of the guys who didn't pan out much (Tom Kuhnhackl, Scott Wilson) were better players at the AHL level than Rust and Sheary. Sundquist didn't pan out *here* but was just as good or better at the time (in the AHL) than the ones who did make it. Even Derrick "Fat Face" Poulliot looked good in the A back then. When Matt Murray pitched TWELVE shutouts one year for WBS, the experts said it was meaningless because of all the help from the veteran team in front of him and -- wait for it -- some guy named Jarry was the REAL star of the future for the Pens (he was a slightly higher draft pick, and younger). But Murray wasn't too shabby around here at first, now was he?

Naturally those guys didn't ALL didn't turn into solid NHL players, but who knows (and will we EVER know) if some of the guys we have down there now will ever become the next Bryan Rust or Conor Sheary or Brian Dumoulin or Matt Murray? Puustinen was doing very well up to this year despite the Sully-esque coaching from J.D. Forrest. Then there's Poulin and maybe some others don't seem like anything special yet (Gruden, Houde) and probably never will.

But the point is that, looking at their AHL production, nobody was salivating over Rust, Sheary, etc. THEN (and predicting they'd become 4, 5, 6 million dollar players), any more than they are all hot and bothered about today's "prospects" NOW. But sometimes luck happens -- if you let it.
 

tom_servo

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Yeah, there's a lot of revisionist history about how the prospects forced their way into the lineup and it's dumb as hell.
Sure it took injuries to get into the lineup but all arrows were pointing up with Matt Murray sporting a .940 and Sheary leading the team in scoring fresh off a college free agent deal. Bryan Rust debuted the prior year. Maybe we can find a Tom Kuhnhackl if we churn through some guys.
 

HandshakeLine

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Sure it took injuries to get into the lineup but all arrows were pointing up with Matt Murray sporting a .940 and Sheary leading the team in scoring fresh off a college free agent deal. Bryan Rust debuted the prior year. Maybe we can find a Tom Kuhnhackl if we churn through some guys.
We got a Kunhackl in Zohorna, we just don't got anything else.
 
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Andy99

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this is from Molinari’s article today…lol, that’s progress…weren’t they like third from the bottom last season in shooting %?

“Despite having a handful of elite offensive talents, the Penguins are scoring on just 8.1 percent of their shots, the league’s 10th-lowest figure.”
 

Sidney the Kidney

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They're gonna have to rebuild the grueling, but correct (imo) way; through the scouting, drafting and development. Yeah, it might take a decade, but that's the way it goes.
Unless Dubas completely overhauls the scouting staff, we're doomed the unless another Crosby or Malkin falls into our lap.

We do a magnificent job of turning 1st round picks into bottom six prospects (at best). Then again that would be Sullivan's wet dream. A bunch of prospects to project to be the next ZAR up front or Ruhwedel on defense? He's licking his chops.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Unless Dubas completely overhauls the scouting staff, we're doomed the unless another Crosby or Malkin falls into our lap.

We do a magnificent job of turning 1st round picks into bottom six prospects (at best). Then again that would be Sullivan's wet dream. A bunch of prospects to project to be the next ZAR up front or Ruhwedel on defense? He's licking his chops.
Yeah, I hope Dubas continues to replace the scouts at both the pro and amateur levels. The guys this organization has targeted for signings and trades, coupled with their record for drafting/development since like 2016 has been f***ing wretched. :laugh:
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Yeah, I hope Dubas continues to replace the scouts at both the pro and amateur levels. The guys this organization has targeted for signings and trades, coupled with their record for drafting/development since like 2016 has been f***ing wretched. :laugh:
They could have saved a lot of money on scouting entirely and just bought a subscription to THN's annual draft preview and simply picked the guy rated at our spot. The results would likely have been, at worst, just as bad, and at best, much better.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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They could have saved a lot of money on scouting entirely and just bought a subscription to THN's annual draft preview and simply picked the guy rated at our spot. The results would likely have been, at worst, just as bad, and at best, much better.
Yeah, it's really somethin'. And the amount of assets spent chasing losers like Brassard, Kapanen and Zucker too. Yeesh.
 

DearDiary

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this is from Molinari’s article today…lol, that’s progress…weren’t they like third from the bottom last season in shooting %?

“Despite having a handful of elite offensive talents, the Penguins are scoring on just 8.1 percent of their shots, the league’s 10th-lowest figure.”

That's what happens when you're in a prime scoring position but no ones screening the goalie
 
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Ugene Magic

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There was a ton of luck involved with the "Wilkes-Barre 7" or whatever they were called. All of them, except maybe Dumoulin, got their big chance in Pittsburgh solely due to spots opening up via injuries. So it's not like Sully, even back then, was clamoring for youth; he used those guys because he had no choice.

Some of the guys who didn't pan out much (Tom Kuhnhackl, Scott Wilson) were better players at the AHL level than Rust and Sheary. Sundquist didn't pan out *here* but was just as good or better at the time (in the AHL) than the ones who did make it. Even Derrick "Fat Face" Poulliot looked good in the A back then. When Matt Murray pitched TWELVE shutouts one year for WBS, the experts said it was meaningless because of all the help from the veteran team in front of him and -- wait for it -- some guy named Jarry was the REAL star of the future for the Pens (he was a slightly higher draft pick, and younger). But Murray wasn't too shabby around here at first, now was he?

Naturally those guys didn't ALL didn't turn into solid NHL players, but who knows (and will we EVER know) if some of the guys we have down there now will ever become the next Bryan Rust or Conor Sheary or Brian Dumoulin or Matt Murray? Puustinen was doing very well up to this year despite the Sully-esque coaching from J.D. Forrest. Then there's Poulin and maybe some others don't seem like anything special yet (Gruden, Houde) and probably never will.

But the point is that, looking at their AHL production, nobody was salivating over Rust, Sheary, etc. THEN (and predicting they'd become 4, 5, 6 million dollar players), any more than they are all hot and bothered about today's "prospects" NOW. But sometimes luck happens -- if you let it.

The biggest testament to that point in time is they got to play with prime Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang. The vet support cast of Kunitz, Dupuis, Bonino, Hagelin/Perron. Fehr, Cullen, Lovejoy, Daley/Scuderi, Cole, Dumoulin, Maatta and Schultz.

The fillers as I put it had them surrounded by vets that allowed them to just do their thing. They had done all those final moves and said that's it, make it work. So you had Bennett, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl sprinkled in. Porter, Pouliot and Plotnikov too.

It just is unfair to have any of their own to make an impact with much less depth surrounding them.

They analytically and soul searched each and every replacement/role player and hit pay-dirt. Then filled in.
 
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