GDT: Game #9 | Detroit Red Wings @ Phoenix Coyotes | 9:00 PM EST | FS-D

[Zetterberg4Captain]

A seven minute a night fourth liner has no correlation to whether we won or lost at all. Our defense missing Kronwall does. Jordin Tootoo being out? No.

did you watch the previous three games?

apart from zetterberg and datsyuk(which salary demands and expects) not one other red wing skater had more of a positive effect each and every single shift they were on the ice

not weiss
not alffie
not franzen
not kronwall
not anyone

 

[RedWingsNow*]

did you watch the previous three games?

apart from zetterberg and datsyuk(which salary demands and expects) not one other red wing skater had more of a positive effect each and every single shift they were on the ice

not weiss
not alffie
not franzen
not kronwall
not anyone

SoupNazi wants to discount the impact Tootoo makes.

 

[SoupNazi]

did you watch the previous three games?

apart from zetterberg and datsyuk(which salary demands and expects) not one other red wing skater had more of a positive effect each and every single shift they were on the ice

not weiss
not alffie
not franzen
not kronwall
not anyone

Yes, in fact, I have watched the previous three games. I also saw a different goalie out there than the one who played last night.

I also noticed a guy who did nothing when someone concussed his teammate while he was on the ice against Colorado.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yes, in fact, I have watched the previous three games. I also saw a different goalie out there than the one who played last night.

I also noticed a guy who did nothing when someone concussed his teammate while he was on the ice against Colorado.

one, in hockey the term "skater" specifically excludes goaltenders and skater is the term i used

two, was tootoo on the ice when the hit occured? if the answer is no, that means the four other players on the ice deliberately and intentionaly stood around and did absolutely nothing to anyone and that is who you should be ashamed of.

 

[SoupNazi]

two, was tootoo on the ice when the hit occured? if the answer is no, that means the four other players on the ice deliberately and intentionaly stood around and did absolutely nothing to anyone and that is who you should be ashamed of.

In fact, yes he was. And as anyone who has played the game knows, our enforcer is supposed to stand up for his teammates. The only one who even responded was Ericsson. Tootoo just stood there. He is one of those you're saying we should be ashamed of.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Not surprised at the Tootoo hate.
He's the guy who is likely going to be let go - so the Kenny Holland pretrial defense has begun

My thoughts on Tootoo.

1) Tootoo is a great 4th line forward and pretty good third line forward who changes the energy of games with his work.
2) Tootoo is a heart and soul player who would become a favorite son in Detroit given half a chance.
3) Holland paid too much for Tootoo.
4) Holland apparently didn't communicate with Babcock before signing Tootooo, who has very little use for Tootoo because he's 5'9. People can say that Tootoo doesn't kill penalities, but we stick anyone in a PK role.
5) Tootoo gives our fourth line speed, energy and toughness. He gives it life. He gives it idenity. Having a 4th line that goes out there and skates and hits gives the entire team a boost.
6) If we let Tootoo go without giving a Whoever-Helm-Tootoo a few weeks gel, we're wasting a grand opportunity.
7) Letting Tootoo go to keep a useless Dan Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson on this team -- it tells you all you need to know about why this franchise is in decline.

 

[BF3]

SoupNazi wants to discount the impact Tootoo makes.

And everyone else wants to overstate it for some reason.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

In fact, yes he was. And as anyone who has played the game knows, our enforcer is supposed to stand up for his teammates. The only one who even responded was Ericsson. Tootoo just stood there. He is one of those you're saying we should be ashamed of.

As anyone who knows the game knows, Tootoo couldn't go fighting with a guy that Jonathan Ericsson embraced with his bro-hug.

Ericsson the wuss should have stayed the **** out of the way if all he was going to do was grind McLeod

 

[RedWingsNow*]

And everyone else wants to overstate it for some reason.

Because it's good to see a fourth liner go out there and and hit and take the defense off its game.

You could actually see it in the body language -- players were thinking twice about going into the corners with Tootoo.

We don't have anyone else on our team who hits like Tootoo does. Abby has 35 hits ... very few are the kind that make a guy think twice about playing the puck.

 

[ThankYouBasedGod]

Not surprised at the Tootoo hate.
He's the guy who is likely going to be let go - so the Kenny Holland pretrial defense has begun

My thoughts on Tootoo.

1) Tootoo is a great 4th line forward and pretty good third line forward who changes the energy of games with his work.
2) Tootoo is a heart and soul player who would become a favorite son in Detroit given half a chance.
3) Holland paid too much for Tootoo.
4) Holland apparently didn't communicate with Babcock before signing Tootooo, who has very little use for Tootoo because he's 5'9. People can say that Tootoo doesn't kill penalities, but we stick anyone in a PK role.
5) Tootoo gives our fourth line speed, energy and toughness. He gives it life. He gives it idenity. Having a 4th line that goes out there and skates and hits gives the entire team a boost.
6) If we let Tootoo go without giving a Whoever-Helm-Tootoo a few weeks gel, we're wasting a grand opportunity.
7) Letting Tootoo go to keep a useless Dan Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson on this team -- it tells you all you need to know about why this franchise is in decline.

THIS 1000X. It sickens me that Tootoo will be the one too go when Helm comes back when Samuelsson, Cleary, and Eaves will still be on the team.

 

[Winger98]

did you watch the previous three games?

apart from zetterberg and datsyuk(which salary demands and expects) not one other red wing skater had more of a positive effect each and every single shift they were on the ice

not weiss
not alffie
not franzen
not kronwall
not anyone

7:21, no shots, no points, one hit. He had basically the same game against Boston.

Yeah, I watched the games, and no, I don't think he was any more impressive than his stat lines.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

7:21, no shots, no points, one hit. He had basically the same game against Boston.

Yeah, I watched the games, and no, I don't think he was any more impressive than his stat lines.

You watched the game and didn't pay attention then.
Really.

 

[Heaton]

Awesome, then Kenny shouldn't have any trouble moving him.

 

[Bench]

Awesome, then Kenny shouldn't have any trouble moving him.

Well, hopefully other GMs pay more attention than Winger. Get your head in the game, buddy!

 

[sarcastro]

Dumping Sammy gets them virtually no cap relief.

Dumping Tootoo gets them a little bit of cap relief.

That's all there is to it. They're both spare forwards and cap relief is the tiebreaker.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Dumping Sammy gets them virtually no cap relief.

Dumping Tootoo gets them a little bit of cap relief.

That's all there is to it. They're both spare forwards and cap relief is the tiebreaker.

How do you figure?
If you waiver wire them -- they give you the same cap relief.
If you trade them, Sammy provides more cap relief?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Awesome, then Kenny shouldn't have any trouble moving him.

Yeah -- I think the $1.9M a year contract will have something to say about that

 

[sarcastro]

How do you figure?
If you waiver wire them -- they give you the same cap relief.
If you trade them, Sammy provides more cap relief?

Sammy cannot be traded. Nobody wants him and he has a NTC that he won't waive. Take your pick.

He's also on a 35+ contract, which means if they send him down they get virtually zero cap relief.

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/what-s-a-35-plus-contract.php

Waive Sammy = $100k cap relief
Waive Tootoo = $925k cap relief

The waiver rules for buried contracts are different for guys on 35+ contracts and guys under 35.

 

[Brandel*]

Because it's good to see a fourth liner go out there and and hit and take the defense off its game.

You could actually see it in the body language -- players were thinking twice about going into the corners with Tootoo.

We don't have anyone else on our team who hits like Tootoo does. Abby has 35 hits ... very few are the kind that make a guy think twice about playing the puck.

I actually disagree with this, Abby has been making huge hits this year, he's actually been a very aggressive player, more-so than I've seen in the past.

 

[Heaton]

I actually disagree with this, Abby has been making huge hits this year, he's actually been a very aggressive player, more-so than I've seen in the past.

Agreed. As Abdelkader can PK and play against lines better than line 4. Oh and he can play in the playoffs, too.

Tootoo's value sucks because he's not more than an 8 minute a night guy on this team, for better or worse.

 

[drw02]

They are going to have to waive Tootoo and Eaves. The numbers just don't work out, they can't fit either guy in cap wise with Helm coming back (unless capgeek's numbers are totally off).

Total payroll is 66,215,422. Cap max is 64.3M

-Glendening back to GR (-575k) = 65,640,422

-waive Tootoo (-925k) = 64,715,422

Still 415,422 over

-waive eaves (-925k) = 63,790,422

Under but we still don't have cap room for Nyquist, even if we waived Bert and Sammy we still wouldn't. Only chance for Nyquist to come up will be a long term injury....

 

[Detroit Swed Wings]

We really were terrible in the faceoff circle.

Dats 39%
Andersson 47%
Weiss 36%
(Glendening 62%)

Have Weiss been over 50% any game at all?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Not surprised at the Tootoo hate.
He's the guy who is likely going to be let go - so the Kenny Holland pretrial defense has begun

Yup, that's totally what it is. Has nothing to do with people who just so happen to have differing opinions than you.

Regarding Tootoo: I like the guy, but him getting waived is simply a casualty of the cap, and nothing else. I would like him in the lineup but I think the team has bigger issues than an 8 minute a night guy getting taken off the regular roster. Especially with Helm coming back. I think Helm is a much more impactful player.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Not surprised at the Tootoo hate.
He's the guy who is likely going to be let go - so the Kenny Holland pretrial defense has begun

My thoughts on Tootoo.

1) Tootoo is a great 4th line forward and pretty good third line forward who changes the energy of games with his work.
2) Tootoo is a heart and soul player who would become a favorite son in Detroit given half a chance.
3) Holland paid too much for Tootoo.
4) Holland apparently didn't communicate with Babcock before signing Tootooo, who has very little use for Tootoo because he's 5'9. People can say that Tootoo doesn't kill penalities, but we stick anyone in a PK role.
5) Tootoo gives our fourth line speed, energy and toughness. He gives it life. He gives it idenity. Having a 4th line that goes out there and skates and hits gives the entire team a boost.
6) If we let Tootoo go without giving a Whoever-Helm-Tootoo a few weeks gel, we're wasting a grand opportunity.
7) Letting Tootoo go to keep a useless Dan Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson on this team -- it tells you all you need to know about why this franchise is in decline.

i agree with all of these.

We really were terrible in the faceoff circle.

Dats 39%
Andersson 47%
Weiss 36%
(Glendening 62%)

Have Weiss been over 50% any game at all?

against sabres, flyers, jackets and second boston game.

 

[TheOtherOne]

4) Holland apparently didn't communicate with Babcock before signing Tootooo, who has very little use for Tootoo because he's 5'9. People can say that Tootoo doesn't kill penalities, but we stick anyone in a PK role.

You really think the explanation for him not being used is more likely to be "he's 5'9" than "he doesn't kill penalties"? If we stick ANYONE in a PK role then why didn't I see him out there shorthanded in any of the few games he did play for us?

I can't guess who's fault it is- either Tootoo doesn't want to PK, or Babcock doesn't think he could succeed at it or learn to succeed at it. But whoever's fault it is, that's the only reason he's not a regular. What difference could being 5'9 possibly make when he plays as if he's the biggest guy on both teams? None! And Babcock is smart enough to know that.

If he could kill penalties as well as Eaves or Miller, he would be a regular in our lineup, hands down. There would be absolutely no reason to exclude him at that point.