GDT: Game 70: Sharks vs Blackhawks, biggest game of the year. 7:30pm NBCSCA

[spintops]

I wouldn’t have changed a thing for this year save for the Hertl trade and generally I think Grier had done a terrific job even if he is a little impatient. This is the year they had to have, however after finishing last year with the least amount of wins and being as historically bad this year as we’ve ever been (including 91-92), if the team doesn’t end up with the first overall then I stand by the statement that it’s a massive failure simply because the tier beyond Macklin is fairly large. Any one of 5 or 6 players could justifiably be chosen 2nd so to have the demoralizing season last and then this without a franchise changing cornerstone piece, well after 5 years of horrific results you can’t maintain that path for the sake of the fans and the franchise.

The fans stopped showing up the instant we were bad. EK65 was scoring 100 points with Hertl/Couture/Meier on the team and we were only drawing more then the Coyotes. I don't know, I have a hard time buying the argument that we should do better in the short term // worse in the long term for the fans. Fans will come back when the team is rebuilt and good again. they aren't showing up the for 70 point season.

It sucks that we are in like year 2 of the rebuild even though we have been bad for 5 years, but that is because of the previous front offices mistakes. Like mentioned by others, I think Grier will look to add real NHL pieces on shorter term contracts this offseason. Veterans that will shelter the kids and possibly have value at the trade deadline.

 

[TheBeard]

The fans stopped showing up the instant we were bad. EK65 was scoring 100 points with Hertl/Couture/Meier on the team and we were only drawing more then the Coyotes. I don't know, I have a hard time buying the argument that we should do better in the short term // worse in the long term for the fans. Fans will come back when the team is rebuilt and good again. they aren't showing up the for 70 point season.

It sucks that we are in like year 2 of the rebuild even though we have been bad for 5 years, but that is because of the previous front offices mistakes. Like mentioned by others, I think Grier will look to add real NHL pieces on shorter term contracts this offseason. Veterans that will shelter the kids and possibly have value at the trade deadline.

We aren't in year 2 of a rebuild. We've been rebuilding for 3 years. I agree with adding real NHL pieces on shorter deals next year. I've stated that as the probably outcome and I think it's the right way.

In terms of fans, many understand the difference being being a bad team and playing bad hockey. If you're going to ice a team with the blatant intent of being as bad as you can, fans aren't going to support it. Put forth a team with the intention of competing (even if not contending) and the support will be there. No one is going out to SJ to watch Mike Hoffman and Nico Sturm on the power play in a game the sharks are getting outshot 42-13.

 

[Hodge]

We aren't in year 2 of a rebuild. We've been rebuilding for 3 years.

Rebuilding teams don't trade a 2nd round pick for Adin Hill or sign Tomas Hertl to a 8 year contract instead of trading him at the deadline. The rebuild began with the Burns trade.

 

[Barrie22]

We aren't in year 2 of a rebuild. We've been rebuilding for 3 years. I agree with adding real NHL pieces on shorter deals next year. I've stated that as the probably outcome and I think it's the right way.

In terms of fans, many understand the difference being being a bad team and playing bad hockey. If you're going to ice a team with the blatant intent of being as bad as you can, fans aren't going to support it. Put forth a team with the intention of competing (even if not contending) and the support will be there. No one is going out to SJ to watch Mike Hoffman and Nico Sturm on the power play in a game the sharks are getting outshot 42-13.

When was Wilson ever trying to rebuild? The rebuild like has been stated thousands of times on this board started the day he was fired/allowed to walk away and Grier was hired.

 

[tahoesharksfan]

When was Wilson ever trying to rebuild? The rebuild like has been stated thousands of times on this board started the day he was fired/allowed to walk away and Grier was hired.

My main issue remains with the front office. They were so in awe of DW, which was warranted for quite while, that it blinded them to the fact that they needed to move on from him. Becher and Will were the main culprits. I still have faith that they may have made the right decision in bringing in GMMG (even if accidentally) but he’s already playing catch up due to their cluelessness…

 

[timorous me]

When was Wilson ever trying to rebuild? The rebuild like has been stated thousands of times on this board started the day he was fired/allowed to walk away and Grier was hired.

The word wasn't even a part of his vocabulary!

Wilson said there's no need to tear down and rebuild a franchise that was a perennial contender for most of the previous 15 years. He believes a few key moves could get the Sharks back to that level next season when they try to avoid their first three-year stretch ever without a playoff berth.
May 13, 2021, ESPN.com

 

[TheBeard]

When was Wilson ever trying to rebuild? The rebuild like has been stated thousands of times on this board started the day he was fired/allowed to walk away and Grier was hired.

The rebuild began the day we drafted Eklund. Wilson just did nothing that first year in either direction outside or re-sign Hertl, but the team finally didn't trade future commodities for win-now pieces.

Now, when he was fired and Grier came in, THAT no doubt expedited the process and went extreme with how the rebuild was going to go.

 

[LilLeeroy]

The rebuild began the day we drafted Eklund. Wilson just did nothing that first year in either direction outside or re-sign Hertl, but the team finally didn't trade future commodities for win-now pieces.

Now, when he was fired and Grier came in, THAT no doubt expedited the process and went extreme with how the rebuild was going to go.

We should just count ourselves lucky he didn't trade that pick for the "playoff push" honestly.

 

[weastern bias]

I would argue that even the Burns trade was a soft-launch on the rebuild because we still made "win-now" moves that summer like trading for Kunin, signing Benning and buying out Balcers, moves you make to supplement the active NHL roster rather than to stock future assets

In my opinion the rebuild really started with the Meier trade, February 26, 2023, just over a year ago now

It was only after that when we sent off Karlsson and Hertl and REALLY bottomed out

We've been bad for 5 years

We've been rebuilding for about 1 year

 

[spintops]

I would argue that even the Burns trade was a soft-launch on the rebuild because we still made "win-now" moves that summer like trading for Kunin, signing Benning and buying out Balcers, moves you make to supplement the active NHL roster rather than to stock future assets

In my opinion the rebuild really started with the Meier trade, February 26, 2023, just over a year ago now

It was only after that when we sent off Karlsson and Hertl and REALLY bottomed out

We've been bad for 5 years

We've been rebuilding for about 1 year

I agree 100%

 

[Cas]

I would argue that even the Burns trade was a soft-launch on the rebuild because we still made "win-now" moves that summer like trading for Kunin, signing Benning and buying out Balcers, moves you make to supplement the active NHL roster rather than to stock future assets

In my opinion the rebuild really started with the Meier trade, February 26, 2023, just over a year ago now

It was only after that when we sent off Karlsson and Hertl and REALLY bottomed out

We've been bad for 5 years

We've been rebuilding for about 1 year

This is the truth - Wilson never rebuilt (and certainly not with picking Eklund).

 

[Alaskanice]

The rebuild began the day we drafted Eklund. Wilson just did nothing that first year in either direction outside or re-sign Hertl, but the team finally didn't trade future commodities for win-now pieces.

Now, when he was fired and Grier came in, THAT no doubt expedited the process and went extreme with how the rebuild was going to go.

Not to nitpick but DW wasn’t fired.

 

[coooldude]

Not to nitpick but DW wasn’t fired.

Not publicly, anyway, but he also didn't really resign, he faded into a leave of absence and then sort of just appeared in Pittsburgh. Hardly a happy sendoff.

 

[landshark]

Not publicly, anyway, but he also didn't really resign, he faded into a leave of absence and then sort of just appeared in Pittsburgh. Hardly a happy sendoff.

Don't forget about this bit of jackassery:

 

[sharski]

I'm still VERY confused over what the hell happened with DW... Such mixed signals

 

[Cas]

Wilson was allowed to step away so they didn't have to technically fire him.

But he was fired, no doubt about it.

 

[TheBeard]

Not to nitpick but DW wasn’t fired.

Let’s be honest. He was fired.

I would argue that even the Burns trade was a soft-launch on the rebuild because we still made "win-now" moves that summer like trading for Kunin, signing Benning and buying out Balcers, moves you make to supplement the active NHL roster rather than to stock future assets

In my opinion the rebuild really started with the Meier trade, February 26, 2023, just over a year ago now

It was only after that when we sent off Karlsson and Hertl and REALLY bottomed out

We've been bad for 5 years

We've been rebuilding for about 1 year

Trading for a underwhelming 23 year old and signing a bottom pair d-man cheap for 4 years are exactly the kinds of loves you make when you’re rebuilding. Lotto tickets and placeholders.

 

[weastern bias]

Trading for a underwhelming 23 year old and signing a bottom pair d-man cheap for 4 years are exactly the kinds of loves you make when you’re rebuilding. Lotto tickets and placeholders.

You don't commit to term when you're rebuilding, it defeats the purpose of maximizing cap flexibility, which has been Grier's entire strategy as he has liquidated the roster over the last calendar year

Kunin would make sense if they weren't trading a younger player and a draft pick to add him, that's not a rebuild move, that's an attempt to accelerate

The way I see the time frame of the last 5 years:

Under Wilson

2020: Attempting to compete, team is bad
2021: Attempting to compete, team is bad
2022: Attempting to compete, team is bad

Under Grier

2023: Evaluation year, move off an aging Burns, make some offseason tweaks, understand the team is likely not competitive but allow the roster to speak for itself, once our status is clear at the deadline make your moves to bottom out and finish dead last in wins

2024: Full blown scorched earth, raze the city to the ground, remove all long term contracts and commit fully to the future and investing in youth and draft picks

This rebuild is fresh, it's been going on for 13 months, just because we were terrible for 3 full years before we started looking toward the future doesn't mean we were rebuilding

And it's been really effective at restocking the pantry really quickly, Smith is exceeding expectations, so are prospects like Musty and Cagnoni, we're picking top-4 again this year, Grier gets an A+ on the rebuild, he's doing everything correctly, we just need to see if he can do the "build" part

 

[LilLeeroy]

I'm still VERY confused over what the hell happened with DW... Such mixed signals

He was obviously trying to install Jr. as the next GM but was thwarted by Jr.'s complete lack of ability.

 

[STL Shark]

5 points clear on last place with 12 to go. 9 of those games against teams outside the playoff picture. Hawks have 11 games to go with 5 against teams outside the playoff picture. Race to the bottom is still interesting.

Not necessarily true. STL and Minnesota are both in the hunt for the final Wild Card spot at 4 and 6 points back of Vegas, respectively, while having 2 games a piece against SJ on their schedule. So with that, it's more like 7 of the 12 are against teams in or right on the outside of the playoff picture. Their odds might be slim, but they're going to be super focused on getting what they'll perceive as easy points against SJ.

 

[STL Shark]

Good loss, but if this is the kind of team Grier plans to put out next year then he may as well trade the kids already on the roster and keep the prospects far far away or they're all gonna want out.

This is beyond pathetic and if I were a young player I wouldn't want to be part of an organization that isn't interested in getting better before 2027

What sort of logic (or lack thereof) suggests that Grier is planning to put this type of team out there again next year? He quite literally said that they're planning to try and take a step forward next year to be more competitive now that they've gotten the roster torn down and reset.

I wouldn’t have changed a thing for this year save for the Hertl trade and generally I think Grier had done a terrific job even if he is a little impatient. This is the year they had to have, however after finishing last year with the least amount of wins and being as historically bad this year as we’ve ever been (including 91-92), if the team doesn’t end up with the first overall then I stand by the statement that it’s a massive failure simply because the tier beyond Macklin is fairly large. Any one of 5 or 6 players could justifiably be chosen 2nd so to have the demoralizing season last and then this without a franchise changing cornerstone piece, well after 5 years of horrific results you can’t maintain that path for the sake of the fans and the franchise.

In what sort of world can you call something a failure whenever the organization did everything right to create the desired outcome (#1 overall pick)? Because the ping pong balls may not come out in our favor despite having the best odds, you want to call the season a failure? Who exactly is failing in that case when everything has been done according to plan/correctly?

 

[TheBeard]

What sort of logic (or lack thereof) suggests that Grier is planning to put this type of team out there again next year? He quite literally said that they're planning to try and take a step forward next year to be more competitive now that they've gotten the roster torn down and reset.


In what sort of world can you call something a failure whenever the organization did everything right to create the desired outcome (#1 overall pick)? Because the ping pong balls may not come out in our favor despite having the best odds, you want to call the season a failure? Who exactly is failing in that case when everything has been done according to plan/correctly?

Hey, if your goal is to have arguably the worst season in the history of the franchise, trade away the only legit "star/fan favorite" and end up with maybe a middle 6 or middle pairing d-man then sobeit. I'm not gonna argue anymore with people who scratch and claw to find any silver linings out of worst case scenarios. We all cope in different ways.

In terms of Grier and next season, there's this magical key word I put in there and it's "if". Until Grier shows he's actually going to take productive steps then I'll continue to temper my expectations. I do think, for better or worse, how MG visualizes next season is contingent on whether or not the ping pong balls come out in our favor.

Peace

 

[coooldude]

I get the consternation, but if we pick 2-3rd or even 4th OA, we're not looking at a middle-outcome "middle 6 or middle pairing D." Those would be mediocre to not happy outcomes for that pick. In my mind, whoever we pick will immediately be as good a prospect as Smith, or the best D prospect we have and better than Mukh. Since we are all excited about Mukh now as pretty much a 4th D floor, I think that's pretty exciting, even if we don't get Celebrini. You can't know the future but giving ourselves a shot at this caliber of a player is a resounding success for a season. Not to mention drafting at the top of the 2nd and every other round, plus the extra picks.

And it may be a nitpick, but having lived through 1992-93, I am personally convinced that season was far worse than this one. I know others lived through it too and may think differently, but for me it's no question. This season has been hard, but it's still 3rd worst in terms of pure performance and a lot better than that in terms of hope (e.g. 2020 was more depressing for me, along with 1991-93 and even the late 90's).

 

[weastern bias]

Hey, if your goal is to have arguably the worst season in the history of the franchise, trade away the only legit "star/fan favorite" and end up with maybe a middle 6 or middle pairing d-man then sobeit. I'm not gonna argue anymore with people who scratch and claw to find any silver linings out of worst case scenarios. We all cope in different ways.

In terms of Grier and next season, there's this magical key word I put in there and it's "if". Until Grier shows he's actually going to take productive steps then I'll continue to temper my expectations. I do think, for better or worse, how MG visualizes next season is contingent on whether or not the ping pong balls come out in our favor.

Peace

Even if we lose both lotteries and pick 3rd this season isn't a worst case scenario

The Sharks already lived a worst case scenario season in recent memory, in 2019-20, they were trying to compete, they had an aging roster with lots of big money contracts signed for long term and finished last place in the conference without owning their own 1st round pick, surrendering 3rd overall who turned into a 35 goal 90 point centerman

It isn't "cope" that people are glad the organization finally committed to a forward thinking thought process, we were at the basement of the league for years BEFORE they started tanking, now we just get to use these losing seasons to our advantage at the top of the draft

And of course it isn't a guarantee, the Oilers are proving that you can even win the lottery and draft a generational talent and it doesn't guarantee deep playoff runs, but it does afford you the opportunity to build a new team without being saddled to the baggage of a bygone time

We were terrible for years while having a salary structure that prevented real progress, now we get to be terrible for more years but with the room and assets to actually make improvements

 

[weastern bias]

I think the latest we could reasonably draft this year is 4th (I don't see how we win enough games to pass Anaheim) if we pass Chicago and lose both lotteries

Here are the last 20 years of 4th overall picks:

Will Smith
Shane Wright
Luke Hughes
Lucas Raymond
Bowen Byram
Brady Tkachuk
Cale Makar
Jesse Puljujarvi
Mitchell Marner
Sam Bennett
Seth Jones
Griffin Reinhart
Adam Larsson
Ryan Johansen
Evander Kane
Alex Pietrangelo
Thomas Hickey
Nicklas Backstrom
Benoit Pouliot
Andrew Ladd

Sure, there are some notable misses on that list, but their are also #1 D men, top line forwards, Stanley Cup winners and future hall of famers on that list

If your scouting is strong and the draft is good a top-5 pick is a strong basis upon which to build a winning team