GDT: Game 7- Blues @ Vancouver

[Majorityof1]

I mean I understand your point and I think there would be merit if this trend continued, but the dude hasn't played an NHL game in 2 years. He's never going to be a defensive stalwart but we ought to wait for more information to become available before making a hard stance on him as a player.

Perunovich had 20 points in 22 games in the AHL last year (not indicative but that's pretty good for a defenseman) and he had 8 points in 10 games at the WC. The guy can obviously score and if we're not going to be good at defense then f*** it let him play. Krug didn't look bad through a few games defensively, but he didn't keep that up just based on the eye test and was pretty awful last night (everyone was). Personally, I'll make comments about how some players are playing or what I saw from the game on that night, but I'm not going to make broad claims about a player until they've played something like ~15 games in that respective season.

I think the reason why people argue with you about this is because there's nothing at stake. There's absolutely nothing to lose by playing Perunovich this year. Plenty of players have played 100+ games in this league and not been replacement level players and at this point in the Blues construction, I think it's fine to attempt to develop the player. Each time you make a case about his numbers, none of us will disagree they are bad, but the same question will be asked: What is really at stake? The answer is going to be ubiquitously "Nothing."

If there is nothing at stake and we don't care about how bad we are, why does everyone bitch so much?

What do we have to lose? Developing Tucker who is in the press box and is young enough he can develop, developing Alexandrov who is in the press box so we can run 7 D to shelter Perunovich. Boosting Vrana's trade value by not scratching him to run 7 D. Giving Kessel or Loof those sheltered minutes to see what we have in them. Perunovich is 25. If he doesn't amount to anything now, when will he? He is almost half-way through what should be his prime (23-28) and people are still trying to develop him.

 

[shpongle falls]

To be fair to Perunovich he’s barely played in the NHL (21 games) and lost two years of development with injuries. He’s basically a rookie still. I love his offensive instincts out there and hopefully will develop some this year.

 

[ezcreepin]

If there is nothing at stake and we don't care about how bad we are, why does everyone bitch so much?

What do we have to lose? Developing Tucker who is in the press box and is young enough he can develop, developing Alexandrov who is in the press box so we can run 7 D to shelter Perunovich. Boosting Vrana's trade value by not scratching him to run 7 D. Giving Kessel or Loof those sheltered minutes to see what we have in them. Perunovich is 25. If he doesn't amount to anything now, when will he? He is almost half-way through what should be his prime (23-28) and people are still trying to develop him.

Idk, maybe the same reason why you bitch about it. People want to see the team do well and you get frustrated when they aren't. It's not that complicated.

You can do all those things in one season. You can attempt to develop all of them if that's your goal, which at this point, I don't see a reason not to. You always bring this up about Perunovich being 25. Yea sure he's in his mid 20s, but experience has a lot to do with being a competent NHL player. Players can establish themselves early (18 years old) or in rare cases very late (30 years old). Marty St Louis didn't get a real shot until his age 25 season, Mason Marchment didn't break out until his age 26 season, Carter Veraeghe didn't break out until his age 25 season, Kunitz didn't break out until his age 26 season (lockout the year before), Matt Read had a short but productive career that started at 25, Tim Thomas didn't become a commodity until he was 31. There are plenty of players that didn't start their careers until their mid 20s, so I don't like the argument of, "He's almost half-way through his prime." He's had a legitimate reason to have not broken out in the NHL though that could be his downfall. What I suspect you're going to say is you've seen enough of him that you're confident he's not an NHL player, his stats back that up, and we should stop wasting time trying to develop a 25 year old 3rd pairing pp quarterback who needs to be sheltered.

 

[Majorityof1]

Idk, maybe the same reason why you bitch about it. People want to see the team do well and you get frustrated when they aren't. It's not that complicated.

Then there is something at stake when putting a god awful player in the line up, if only our sanity

You can do all those things in one season. You can attempt to develop all of them if that's your goal, which at this point, I don't see a reason not to. You always bring this up about Perunovich being 25. Yea sure he's in his mid 20s, but experience has a lot to do with being a competent NHL player. Players can establish themselves early (18 years old) or in rare cases very late (30 years old). Marty St Louis didn't get a real shot until his age 25 season, Mason Marchment didn't break out until his age 26 season, Carter Veraeghe didn't break out until his age 25 season, Kunitz didn't break out until his age 26 season (lockout the year before), Matt Read had a short but productive career that started at 25, Tim Thomas didn't become a commodity until he was 31. There are plenty of players that didn't start their careers until their mid 20s, so I don't like the argument of, "He's almost half-way through his prime." He's had a legitimate reason to have not broken out in the NHL though that could be his downfall. What I suspect you're going to say is you've seen enough of him that you're confident he's not an NHL player, his stats back that up, and we should stop wasting time trying to develop a 25 year old 3rd pairing pp quarterback who needs to be sheltered.

Pretty much nailed it. And what you are going to say is he has done well at other levels (no he hasn't, he put up points, but sucked ass defensively there too). Those guys you named weren't gifted minutes when they sucked. Kunitz got 21 games at 24 as an injury fill in, and went back to the AHL the next year. You have to earn your minutes. Perunovich has not. We are gifting him minutes because everyone is drooling over some imagined potential that isn't there. Why did we give up on Rattie, or Kostin or Schmaltz or any of the other players we gave up on before they hit 25, but we won't give up on Perunoivch. Gaudette is killing it in the AHL, why aren't we developing him if players can blossom at 27?

 

[ezcreepin]

Then there is something at stake when putting a god awful player in the line up, if only our sanity


Pretty much nailed it. And what you are going to say is he has done well at other levels (no he hasn't, he put up points, but sucked ass defensively there too). Those guys you named weren't gifted minutes when they sucked. Kunitz got 21 games at 24 as an injury fill in, and went back to the AHL the next year. You have to earn your minutes. Perunovich has not. We are gifting him minutes because everyone is drooling over some imagined potential that isn't there. Why did we give up on Rattie, or Kostin or Schmaltz or any of the other players we gave up on before they hit 25, but we won't give up on Perunoivch. Gaudette is killing it in the AHL, why aren't we developing him if players can blossom at 27?

I'm more interested in watching a player develop even with the loss in sanity. Kyrou was no different and although he has his flaws, he's been easier to watch recently.

Perunovich has done nothing if not the same thing Krug did in terms of their trajectory. Both went to NCAA and lit up that league, both went to the AHL and scored at pretty insane paces (Perunovich got injured), and Krug got his chance in the lineup the following year while Perunovich had limited time and subsequently got injured again. I don't think anyone is "drooling" over his potential; I think we are all interested in what he can do and quite frankly, he hasn't had much of an opportunity in the NHL to do a whole lot.

For the record, those guys WERE given chances to succeed. St Louis was traded to Tampa Bay to play a top 6 role while he was starting games on the 4th line in Calgary (his words). Marchment and Verhaeghe were on a surprisingly effective yet lacking in forward depth Panthers team, Matt Read (despite being 1 of 6 RWs) was given a chance to play because their forward depth was lacking. I'm sure they all earned their ice time but they were all put in positions that allowed them to earn it.

I don't know why you're asking me why the Blues didn't give Rattie, Kostin, or Schmaltz games. Personally, I would like to see how they play against NHL players, but I'm going to guess that the Blues were not as interested in developing them with the NHL club and were more focused on winning. Which is why I'm saying now to just let Perunovich play because we're not even close to competing for a playoff spot. Also, I'm in favor of calling up Gaudette and plugging him in to see how he plays. However just so it's known, he has 218 games of experience compared to the whopping 21 games of experience Perunovich has.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The outlook for this season seems pretty certain. Even Armstrong said he expects this team to compete for the "middle third" of the league (or something like that) which means maybe fringe playoff team. But if he's really honest I don't think he believes he has a playoff team here.

Its fine to start out giving it your best shot. Berube is trying to motivate this team to win on grit, but its hard to see this line-up be able to function that way.

So, at what point DO they start making moves that sacrifice competitiveness in favor of optimal developmental paths for some of the guys on the bench or in the AHL? Surely its going to be before the trade deadline. We are in the bizarre situation where it would be better for the long-term benefit of the team if they suffered a defensive starter injury that invoked LTIR for a while.

 

[TheDizee]

The outlook for this season seems pretty certain. Even Armstrong said he expects this team to compete for the "middle third" of the league (or something like that) which means maybe fringe playoff team. But if he's really honest I don't think he believes he has a playoff team here.

Its fine to start out giving it your best shot. Berube is trying to motivate this team to win on grit, but its hard to see this line-up be able to function that way.

So, at what point DO they start making moves that sacrifice competitiveness in favor of optimal developmental paths for some of the guys on the bench or in the AHL? Surely its going to be before the trade deadline. We are in the bizarre situation where it would be better for the long-term benefit of the team if they suffered a defensive starter injury that invoked LTIR for a while.

nobody on the roster is worth keeping long term outside of thomas, hofer and MAYBE parayko. i would trade them all if given the opportunity. problem is our brilliant gm gives out NTC like halloween candy so we are going to either overpay in a trade to move those bums or be stuck with them like krug. for the record, i think Krug will be Armstrong's first buyout if he cannot be moved this year or offseason.

either way, i'd really enjoy a team that works hard everynight and loses but is fun to watch over the crap we have witnessed the past 2 season. They don't work hard and they get outshot every night by big margins. the teams in late 2000s and early 2010s were hard working teams with upcoming talent you loved to watch and see what they did. all this club has is a bunch of washed up vets and then a bunch of lazy bums like Kyrou and Vrana who have talent but no motor running them.

 

[sbet1998]

Maybe you don’t remember who saved the team in the 2022 playoffs since Husso couldn’t do it. It was Binnington.

It’s ridiculous to use a one game sample size for Hofer, when the team was playing a bad team on the first night of a back to back, where Binnington got the 2nd night. That’s not a fair comparison.

Plus, that was not Hofer’s first game of the season. Why did you not bring up his first game where he gave up 6 goals? Or the games he played for us in previous seasons? You’re creating a narrative here that is easily broken.

Binnington is a Cup winning goalie, he’s accomplished more than most guys on this roster have. If they don’t have confidence in him, that’s their problem. And Binnington himself sure as shit shouldn’t have any confidence in the team that’s in front of him.

Okay, how many games did Husso start in the the 22 playoffs? Is that a good sample size? Didnt he have a decent showing after Kadri ran 50?

I like 50 when he's full of adrenaline and focused. He plays bigger than he is, stays on his edges, in the crease and can steal games. He needed to be escorted by a rookie to that point is all Im saying. A rookie that SHIT on him stat-wise that season in front of the same D.

We dont all need to agree on 50 but I would like some levity.

 

[sbet1998]

That's some ridiculous mental gymnastics you're pulling there. Have you even watched Binny play this year and play when the pressure is on? He's one of the most clutch goalies in the league right now.


Ya, last year. I guess you don't recall that they were running Binny into the ground as per the usual Husso got almost no starts until Binny got Covid. He never looked right after Covid. He always looked tired and slow in the crease. People like you are quick to scream you suck but never look at reasons why that could be.

Mental gymnastics? He's played less than 10 games this season and I have SEASONS to go on at this point. That's having a crush on Binnington because he was just good enough in front of a HOF D for a couple months to win a Cup. You're biased -- but I get it. He helped us finally win a Cup.

What has he done to back up the idea that he is even in the top 3rd of goalies since? Being statistically worse than every other starter in the league??

Where does Niemi, Ward and others rank on your list?

 

[sbet1998]

Its hilarious to me that some of you live in this world where Binnington is a nearly flawless goalie who only puts up terrible stats because of things that are completely out of his control -- and without said things in a vacuum -- would be putting up league-leading stats while on his way to the HOF.

Meanwhile, in reality -- the guy is small and plays even smaller, garbage on his edges, panics under duress during regular season games for some reason.

He sometimes finds another level during the PO's but it takes 82 games to get there.

 

[BlueDream]

Okay, how many games did Husso start in the the 22 playoffs? Is that a good sample size? Didnt he have a decent showing after Kadri ran 50?

I like 50 when he's full of adrenaline and focused. He plays bigger than he is, stays on his edges, in the crease and can steal games. He needed to be escorted by a rookie to that point is all Im saying. A rookie that SHIT on him stat-wise that season in front of the same D.

We dont all need to agree on 50 but I would like some levity.

Go look up Husso’s stats since that season. He has done NOTHING in Detroit. He has accomplished nothing in the NHL. He’s not any good, so your narrative once again has no basis.

Its hilarious to me that some of you live in this world where Binnington is a nearly flawless goalie who only puts up terrible stats because of things that are completely out of his control -- and without said things in a vacuum -- would be putting up league-leading stats while on his way to the HOF.

Meanwhile, in reality -- the guy is small and plays even smaller, garbage on his edges, panics under duress during regular season games for some reason.

He sometimes finds another level during the PO's but it takes 82 games to get there.

It’s hilarious that the Blues got completely dominated by Vancouver, and your immediate reaction to it is to come in and blame the goalie that has a 2.33 GAA and .926 save percentage this season.

 

[Reality Czech]

Its hilarious to me that some of you live in this world where Binnington is a nearly flawless goalie who only puts up terrible stats because of things that are completely out of his control -- and without said things in a vacuum -- would be putting up league-leading stats while on his way to the HOF.

Meanwhile, in reality -- the guy is small and plays even smaller, garbage on his edges, panics under duress during regular season games for some reason.

He sometimes finds another level during the PO's but it takes 82 games to get there.

If you're relying on stats to judge goalies, then you're simply going to be wrong a lot of the time. I watched almost every Blues game last year and I can say without a doubt he was probably one of our top 3 best players on the season. Yes, there were games where the defense gave him no help and he checked out or lost his cool, but he won us a lot more games than he lost us. Who cares if we lose 5-2 or 6-2? When a team gives up or is completely outmatched, then there is little a goalie can do to save the day. Binny has shown numerous times that he rises to the occasion in big games.

Every goalie goes through ups and downs, but when Binnington is locked in he's absolutely in the top third of NHL goalies if not higher. He's been our best player this season by far as well. No one is saying he's flawless, so stop with the hyperbole. But it frustrating to see people discount him based on his numbers, when he's actually performed pretty well these past two years despite playing behind a team that tends to give up a lot prime scoring chances.

 

[TK 421]

I have a major problem with how Berube has driven Binny into the ground since the Cup winning year where as it so happens he played the fewest games of his NHL career. This dude is a gamer but he's built like Screech from Saved By The Bell and the Blues have given him just about the heaviest workload in the league over that time frame with a roster that has disintegrated over that same time. We went from Cup Champs to hobo pushing shopping cart full of all worldly belongings. That's Doug's fault so I'm looking at those two guys before I'm saying anything about Binny.

 

[BluesHockeyGuy]

Hi!!! I'm Rob and new to the forum.

I'm actually pissed for Berube benching Jakub Vrana in Wednesdays game and scratching him for 2 WTF!!!.

That guy is a great offensive forward who has a great shot, speed and a great Offensive IQ and very fun to watch once he gets going, so Berube puts him on the 3rd line with checkers?

He hasn't put him on the 1st powerplay unit that much either, he doesn't put him in OT games or shootouts?

When he needs a goal he benches him, maked no sense?