GDT: Game 7 • Edmonton Oilers at San Jose Sharks • 7:30pm PST • Orange vs Orange Edition

[Lebanezer]

Yah, the language thing is not a huge problem and just being here with some fellow countrymen would likely be the easiest and quickest way to learn. Not like he will lack for a translator. I have no idea if he will come over this year, just saying it's technically possible.

Right. I figure it's a long shot for this season seeing as the coaches have never worked with him, but after watching the world jrs, I think he should be on the team now.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Ok I finished reviewing the game with an eye on Thornton, just to make sure I hadn't somehow completely misremembered the game. He had exactly one instance of "fighting the puck" where he was unable to control an otherwise well-placed puck. Marleau helped him out and he regained control, and was back to making Thorntonesque plays behind the net.

He had two instances of a puck hopping over his stick because of velocity, once the aforementioned Boyle pass which led to a change of possession, and once on a hard-around by Marleau in OT in which Joe was able to corral the bouncing puck and immediately re-enter the zone to set up a stellar scoring chance.

The rest of the game he handled the puck fine and made his usual effortless passes, including at least 3 blind setups from behind the net to the crease, and 3 or 4 tape to tape through heavy defensive traffic or while being checked. At least 4 of those passes were between his legs.

There were some other players that were fighting the puck and making inaccurate passes, which was keeping possession away from the Sharks and thus the puck away from Joe. Joe himself however was only responsible for one giveaway, though it was a crazy one, the OT one where the player he was passing to went off on a change, leaving petrell to have a clear slapper from the blue line.

Okay, I believe you. Thornton had a great game. I just don't remember him dominating as usual. That's all.

 

[Lebanezer]

I didn't want to be the one to say the bolded, but yeah. I agree. DW would need to jump on Hagelin right now though, before he starts scoring. He'd be a great fit here.

I totally agree as well. Clowe isn't bringing anything to the team that cannot be replaced easily be it through trade or call up.

I would like to say that Clowe wouldn't get us Hagelin, because Hagelin is obviously so much more useful, but you never know with Sather.

 

[hockeyball]

There is no way Zeus should be re-siged. Even a moron like DW should know that. Of course, should is the operating word...

But I do think that having Havlat will make Hertl's transition easier. I know Havlat's a soft spoken dude and not the mentor type, but I'd really, really love it if he could take Tomas under his wing.



I didn't want to be the one to say the bolded, but yeah. I agree. DW would need to jump on Hagelin right now though, before he starts scoring. He'd be a great fit here.

Problem with Clowe is even if he does again start scoring it's likely just another one of his streaks which will again be followed by another total season of crap. He plays completely worthless for HUGE stretches (half a season + ) and when he is playing his best, he's good, but still only a good 2nd liner. The awful stretches are not worth the good stretches basically. I like the guy, but the team needs to move on and get what they can for him before he walks. A lot of teams will likely overvalue him.

 

[magic school bus]

It's cute how you guys are planning future lineups as if DW isn't going to trade Hertl.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Problem with Clowe is even if he does again start scoring it's likely just another one of his streaks which will again be followed by another total season of crap. He plays completely worthless for HUGE stretches (half a season + ) and when he is playing his best, he's good, but still only a good 2nd liner. The awful stretches are not worth the good stretches basically. I like the guy, but the team needs to move on and get what they can for him before he walks. A lot of teams will likely overvalue him.

The Clowe issue is a really big and annoying one. His contract is up at the end of the season, so we won't get full value for him. And DW will only trade him if he gets another top-6 forward in return. But no one is going to offer a top-6 forward for him at the deadline, unless that forward is similarly a rental (Viktor Stalberg anyone?). So we're basically stuck with him this year. Then we either re-sign him (probably to a bad contract) and keep having the same problem, or we don't re-sign him and only have 5 top-6 caliber forwards (obviously Clowe is arguable right now).

It's cute how you guys are planning future lineups as if DW isn't going to trade Hertl.

Stop ruining our fun.

 

[Oppa]

It's cute how you guys are planning future lineups as if DW isn't going to trade Hertl.

you don't know, you don't know anything!

 

[ChompChomp]

My frustration is as to when will the Sharks give Couture-Gomez-Havlat a chance?

Couture-Havlat is an insanely good combo, and breaking it up does jack. Having Slowe Clowe on the 2nd line brings down the line regardless of whether Havlat or Gomez is there. Ditto for the Clowe-Gomez-Havlat 2nd PP line. Clowe brings it down (I think others have noted the chemistry between Gomez and Havlat). I'm beyond ready for Pavs to be a forward on the 1st PP unit and go Couture-Gomez-Havlat for 2nd PP unit. No reason that shouldn't happen when Burns returns at the latest.

I know people like the Zeus-Havlat combo, but do we really think that combo is going to start actually producing?? Is it worth breaking up Couture-Havlat?

Bottom line is we are 2 line team:
M-T-JoePa
Couture-Gomez-Havlat (well I don't know about this for sure, but my gut says it'll work)

If we simply accept that we are nothing more than 2 line team at the moment (With a stacked deep defense and so far a goalie keeping us in games), why does the coaching staff insist on making the team a 1 2/3 line team? Because Clowe on the 2nd line doesn't work, and I'm not convinced Havlat on the third line is going to work either.

Isn't this the best forward lineup for the team at the present moment?
Marleau-Thornton-Pavs
Couture-Gomez-Havlat
TJ-Zeus-Wingels
Clowe-Desjardins-Burish

Where Clowe accepts a role like Jeff Odgers circa 1994, rather than "wannabe Joe Thornton but actually useless"??

 

[Juxtaposer]

PP:

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Irwin-Boyle

Couture-Gomez-Havlat
Demers-Burns

Ideally when healthy, I'd like to see these combos. Unfortunately, they'd put Braun on the bench. Ugh. This defensemen thing is more annoying than you'd think.

 

[Alwalys]

Okay, I believe you. Thornton had a great game. I just don't remember him dominating as usual. That's all.

I don't know that he had a "great" game, the team as a whole had issues, which inevitably affected the situations he played in. The Oilers also played pretty well, perhaps none better than Dubnyk -- a goal or two more allowed and this game could have become a laugher. There were certainly enough grade A chances for that to have happened.

But Joe did not have a bad game for his part, and when he got to do his thing, he was as awesome as usual.

 

[do0glas]

dont we typically roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman on the PP?

 

[Alwalys]

dont we typically roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman on the PP?

Irwin did seem to get extended time on the top PP, no?

 

[GodHatesTheSharks]

Pavelski and Boyle are normally on the points on the top PP unit.

Couture, Thornton and Marleau as your forwards.

 

[WTFetus]

PP:

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Irwin-Boyle

Couture-Gomez-Havlat
Demers-Burns

Ideally when healthy, I'd like to see these combos. Unfortunately, they'd put Braun on the bench. Ugh. This defensemen thing is more annoying than you'd think.

Even right now, I don't really want Clowe on the PP. They have enough playmakers with Havlat and Gomez.
Assuming Demers is good to go:

Couture - Thornton - Marleau
Pavelski - Boyle
(don't want to break that up yet, they are too dominant when they're on).

Gomez - Handzus - Havlat
Irwin - Demers

Handzus at least provides board work and a huge body in front of the net, which is more than I can say for Clowe. No way Todd McLellan takes Clowe off the PP though.

 

[Blades of Glory]

If we let Clowe go, we better get Morrow or someone because having 1 tough guy is going to suck.

The Sharks have plenty of players capable of defending themselves should the need to do so arise. Clowe's size, and the way he uses it, is his greatest asset to the Sharks. His ability to use his body to shield the puck from defenders and keep possession deep in the offensive zone is key to the puck possession style that the Sharks play. His "toughness" is his greatest flaw. Alright, that's a lie. His mind-numbing lack of footspeed is his greatest flaw. Never in my life have I seen a player so slow that he is so often unable to get off the ice with his linemates when they are changing on the fly. Literally, he dumps the puck in, his linemates get off the ice, and in the time it takes him to skate 10 feet, the opposing team has managed to recover the puck from behind their net and lead a rush that keeps him on the ice. Clowe is painfully slow even when he is rested; when he is tired he practically is a statue.

But getting back to the toughness factor; Clowe is obviously a great teammate. But his penchant for taking incredibly, inexplicably stupid roughing and other "toughness"-related penalties is a major problem for the Sharks. It has been for a while. The 36 penalty minutes he racked up against Vancouver would have been awesome if he was a talentless goon that played 5 minutes a game. There is nothing awesome about a top-six forward, on a team without much secondary scoring, taking 36 minutes in penalties in a game against your top competition in the West. I can't tell you how many times that I have wanted to choke something when Clowe takes a stupid roughing penalty after a delayed penalty on the other team and subsequently wipes out an upcoming Sharks' powerplay. He's a valuable player when he controls his emotions.

You don't need to take idiotic roughing penalties or take yourself off the ice for 5 minutes to be a tough player. Joe Thornton has gone toe-to-toe with some of the toughest customers in NHL history and fared quite well. He rarely fights anymore because he understands that a player of his caliber cannot take himself off the ice for 5 minutes without hurting his team significantly. Plus, after Eric Lindros' shattered his face in 2004, and put him out for a few months, the risk of injury became too high. I would say that anyone who has fought Lyle Odelein, Kelly Buchberger, Mark Tinordi, and Craig Simpson qualifies as "tough." Even today, there are few players in the league that could hold their own in a bout against Thornton. The only other star player that possesses that type of fighting ability is Zdeno Chara, who is just a monster (albeit a nice one). Toughness is not measured by PIM and fights any more. No one messes with Thornton or any one of the Sharks' stars. There is no need for this so-called "toughness" in the top six, at least not in the form of bad penalties and fighting majors that take a top-six forward off the ice.

 

[Alwalys]

dont we typically roll with 4 forwards and 1 defenseman on the PP?

Irwin did seem to get extended time on the top PP, no?

My bad, Irwin was used exclusively on the 2nd unit. The 2nd unit has braun and irwin on the points.

 

[ChompChomp]

Pavelski and Boyle are normally on the points on the top PP unit.

Yeah, but it's only been this way because the Sharks were lacking in enough PP QB's. When RW coached here, yeah we saw Marleau on the point at times, but again, because the team was lacking PP QB's on the point.

When healthy, the defense has enough defenseman who should get PP ice time, just pick 4 between Boyle, Burns, Irwin, Braun, Demers (and maybe even Stuart I suppose).

Then you can put Pavs as a forward on the first unit, and roll with Couture-Gomez-Havlat for 2nd PP unit.

No need for Clowe or Zeus on any PP unit for the Sharks, and no reason to EVER EVER EVER split up Couture-Havlat, even strength or PP.

 

[Dicdonya]

Clowe looked mind numbingly bad last night to me. Him not being even remotely ready to accept vlassics pass from behind the net late in the game was horrible, didn't even have his stick on the ice for a lucky tip in. Also wingels really deserves 4th line minutes from now on until he proves he can do anything offensively, I've been saying all offseason he has no scoring touch, so far so right.

Base on what I saw last night and what the coaches seem to be leaning towards I'd like to see:

Marleau-Thornton-pavs
Cooch-gomez-havlat
Shepard- zeus-gali
Clowe-desi-burish/wingels

Until clowe or wingels get their game going they really don't need to be doing anything but trying to pump some energy on the 4th line.

Also with shep looking good and the coaches liking havlat with zeus, maybe put shep with Gomez/cooch, he's a big kid who's looking pretty good along the boards. Might work well with them. I dunno just spitballing

 

[JayP812]

2nd power play unit of Clowe-Gomez-Havlat, Braun-Vlasic is terrible. Very bad possession, and when they do have the puck, they all want to do is pass to each other. Put Pavelski or Couture instead of Clowe. When Demers and Burns are healthy, put Demers on the 1st unit and Burns on the 2nd.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The thing, (well, one of the things), that makes the Sharks #1PP so effective is that they just keep rotating. Nobody's attached to the points. Generally, Marleau-Boyle-Pavelski rotate on the points, but I've seen Couture up there, I've seen Thornton up there, I've seen Marleau and Pavelski lower in the zone. It's just so fluid and unpredictable. Take that system, add players who can do it effectively, and then add in the amount of pure passing and shooting skills and vision between the 5 guys. They're nearly flawless on the PP.

Something to note is, when the 4-3 came in OT yesterday, it was Couture with Marleau/Thornton/Boyle instead of Pavelski. I think the coaches see Couture as a better offensive player than Pavelski (as they should) and that's why they leave him out to dry all the time, playing with scrubs.

 

[Alwalys]

That and logan loves to beat up on the oiler kids

 

[Mafoofoo]

That and logan loves to beat up on the oiler kids

Well didn't he say he circles games against them or something because they get all the hype or something?

 

[do0glas]

Yea, honestly he seems kind of Whitney about the big 3 getting a lot of media attention, but couture is brutal during an interview, no personality. He's also not playing in Canada, so I'm not sure why he'd expect to get more coverage than 3 no. 1 picks. Meh

 

[WTFetus]

Something to note is, when the 4-3 came in OT yesterday, it was Couture with Marleau/Thornton/Boyle instead of Pavelski. I think the coaches see Couture as a better offensive player than Pavelski (as they should) and that's why they leave him out to dry all the time, playing with scrubs.

I saw it as the coaches thinking Couture has the best wrister on the team. All they tried to do was open up a lane for Couture to snipe. Marleau is also a bigger body in front of the net than Pavelski.

I think if Burns was healthy, they'd do Thornton, Boyle, Burns, and Marleau/Pavelski.

 

[magic school bus]

Well didn't he say he circles games against them or something because they get all the hype or something?

Yeah, basically. He feels disrespected because their young players are talked about so much more than he is despite accomplishing so much less.