GDT: Game 69: Avs @ Kings - Pray for Nate

[Bubba Thudd]

Didn't watch the game last night. I just watched highlights of that game looked like they could've been winning this game 6-1 according to the highlights. Connauton with two huge mistakes that led to a great chance and one where he scored in his net. How can Timmins still not be recalled boy this defense is putrid and now Mackinnon is injured. Anyone knows how serious this could be and how many games he might miss? I know how injuries work with the Avs they will tell you day-to-day then it's freaking months or will tell you months but it's day-to-day. So that's why I'm asking this on HFavs. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

It's all been clearly explained in the Injury Thread.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Didn't watch the game last night. I just watched highlights of that game looked like they could've been winning this game 6-1 according to the highlights. Connauton with two huge mistakes that led to a great chance and one where he scored in his net. How can Timmins still not be recalled boy this defense is putrid and now Mackinnon is injured. Anyone knows how serious this could be and how many games he might miss? I know how injuries work with the Avs they will tell you day-to-day then it's freaking months or will tell you months but it's day-to-day. So that's why I'm asking this on HFavs. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

Here is an update for you that I posted in the Injury thread:

Bednar: "Ladies and Gentlemen I have an update on Mack. He has either a LBI or an UBI. He may or may not miss some games. He will be re-evaluated every day until the next game he plays which should be in the near future or not.. Oh and I can confirm that he is alive.............for now. I'll inform you when I know more. Thank you."

 

[henchman21]

I think part of the larger picture is missed when talking about the depth reinforcements... Not only would they help in times where a team is being devastated, but they help when a team is healthy too. They give an advantage throughout the season where maybe the Avs are in 1st in the Central with a decent lead instead of fighting for it. MacK is fresher and doesn't have to play 22-24 minutes a night to keep the team afloat. The stretches where Girard has to move right and our 2nd PP QB is EJ are limited. EJ has his role trimmed back to maybe help keep him at a 4/5 level longer throughout the contract. The argument for having targeted a #3C, #4D, and as the Avs certainly tried a top 6 wing is every bit as much about making the team better for the whole season and a better matchup as it is sustaining through when injuries hit strong. All of those moves were talked about before the injuries as needs, and they are still needs after the injuries... they'll still be needs into the summer.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Damn Sakic for sitting on his hands all year and doing f***all to help improve this team.

 

[henchman21]

Damn Sakic for sitting on his hands all year and doing f***all to help improve this team.

I know some are screaming lynch Sakic, but that is not my intent here. I'm not saying that, I'm saying the team has had clear holes where there have been opportunities to patch. It doesn't need to be black and white here where Sakic suddenly didn't a crappy job on one side or did amazeballs on the other with no middle ground.

 

[Nihiliste]

If the Avs don’t want to engage with the fans, the fans don’t have to engage with the Avs. I’m not going to watch any games until they get some bodies back tbh

 

[Pokecheque]

I know some are screaming lynch Sakic, but that is not my intent here. I'm not saying that, I'm saying the team has had clear holes where there have been opportunities to patch. It doesn't need to be black and white here where Sakic suddenly didn't a crappy job on one side or did amazeballs on the other with no middle ground.

Exactly. Are we really lambasting Sakic now? This team that happens to be TWO POINTS out of the Western Conference lead? If they had won last night, they'd not only be the best team in the West, they'd be the 2nd-best team in the entire NHL. An NHL team does not get to this point if the GM isn't doing his job.

I understand the criticism, and to an extent, I share it. But people need to calm down a bit. If it doesn't happen this year...it doesn't happen. You see what happened with teams like Carolina who loaded up despite injuries, and they're still flailing. And we'd be sitting here criticizing Joe for wasting valuable resources. It can go both ways.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

my post bashing Sakic was sarcasm

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Exactly. Are we really lambasting Sakic now? This team that happens to be TWO POINTS out of the Western Conference lead? If they had won last night, they'd not only be the best team in the West, they'd be the 2nd-best team in the entire NHL. An NHL team does not get to this point if the GM isn't doing his job.

I understand the criticism, and to an extent, I share it. But people need to calm down a bit. If it doesn't happen this year...it doesn't happen. You see what happened with teams like Carolina who loaded up despite injuries, and they're still flailing. And we'd be sitting here criticizing Joe for wasting valuable resources. It can go both ways.

And if we lose a superstar for our playoff run (knock on wood!!!); we can't make up for it anyways. Thats why its better to just keep our assets in order to build a consistently competitive team and one of the years with the window, we will win the cup.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

When you look at the rash of injuries we are currently going through and the record we have had during said rash, IMO this team has proved we have great depth. Names was not targeted only as a Winger but I believe also as C depth. We'll see next game if I am right if both Mack and Kadri are still out.

The one thing I think Sakic failed to do at the TDL is acquiring DeMelo. With that said, WIN got him for a 3rd so the Avs would have had to paid more than that to get him. Maybe because of past trade history between OTT and COL the price with us was quite a bit higher. Who knows, but if the trade was there for the Avs (and we have no way of knowing unless it is leaked) that is something that should have been done.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Exactly. Are we really lambasting Sakic now? This team that happens to be TWO POINTS out of the Western Conference lead? If they had won last night, they'd not only be the best team in the West, they'd be the 2nd-best team in the entire NHL. An NHL team does not get to this point if the GM isn't doing his job.

I understand the criticism, and to an extent, I share it. But people need to calm down a bit. If it doesn't happen this year...it doesn't happen. You see what happened with teams like Carolina who loaded up despite injuries, and they're still flailing. And we'd be sitting here criticizing Joe for wasting valuable resources. It can go both ways.

Preach, Poke.

 

[Spilot23]

Here is an update for you that I posted in the Injury thread:

Thanks for the answer. Classic Avs injury update I guess

 

[henchman21]

Exactly. Are we really lambasting Sakic now? This team that happens to be TWO POINTS out of the Western Conference lead? If they had won last night, they'd not only be the best team in the West, they'd be the 2nd-best team in the entire NHL. An NHL team does not get to this point if the GM isn't doing his job.

I understand the criticism, and to an extent, I share it. But people need to calm down a bit. If it doesn't happen this year...it doesn't happen. You see what happened with teams like Carolina who loaded up despite injuries, and they're still flailing. And we'd be sitting here criticizing Joe for wasting valuable resources. It can go both ways.

A point with Carolina is that they only paid for one rental in Vatanen, who may not cost a lot. Their big spends were on players who had a lot of term.

 

[Matt Roberts]

I think part of the larger picture is missed when talking about the depth reinforcements... Not only would they help in times where a team is being devastated, but they help when a team is healthy too. They give an advantage throughout the season where maybe the Avs are in 1st in the Central with a decent lead instead of fighting for it. MacK is fresher and doesn't have to play 22-24 minutes a night to keep the team afloat. The stretches where Girard has to move right and our 2nd PP QB is EJ are limited. EJ has his role trimmed back to maybe help keep him at a 4/5 level longer throughout the contract. The argument for having targeted a #3C, #4D, and as the Avs certainly tried a top 6 wing is every bit as much about making the team better for the whole season and a better matchup as it is sustaining through when injuries hit strong. All of those moves were talked about before the injuries as needs, and they are still needs after the injuries... they'll still be needs into the summer.

Some of this probably comes down to what we're considering as depth reinforcements. When I hear depth, I'm thinking bottom pairing defensemen, bottom 6 forwards like Namestnikov, etc. I'm not upset more of those moves weren't made because I think people are overreacting to the injuries in the short term, and I don't think it would've moved the needle on the Cup odds this year.

Now, if the argument is that the team would be better with another top 6 wing or top 4 D like Petry, then yeah, I think we were all on board for that at the deadline. The deals just didn't seem to be out there.

 

[Matt Roberts]

Expect for the fact that more than likely guys like Nieto and Jost would have been the scratches.

Cup contending teams burn assets all the time to strengthen their teams for cup runs, that's just what they do. Fans around here need to get off the can't afford to burn assets bandwagon, we are good and need to use assets to fill in holes for Cup runs. We are at that level now. This doesn't mean ship off every quality asset we have for rentals like LaCroix used to do. It means if you have holes or concerns make reasonable deals to address those issues.

But as was discussed at the deadline, who were those reasonable targets? Which players dealt were acquired at a reasonable cost while having the ability to play a significant role in the playoffs? Nieto already looks like a possible scratch, and you'd basically have to find someone able to beat out Jost, Calvert or Names for a spot. And at that point, the law of diminishing returns is in effect.

Ultimately, this team is 8-2-1 in its last 11 games and reinforcements are coming soon. Things aren't as dire as you're portraying.

 

[The Abusement Park]

But as was discussed at the deadline, who were those reasonable targets? Which players dealt were acquired at a reasonable cost while having the ability to play a significant role in the playoffs? Nieto already looks like a possible scratch, and you'd basically have to find someone able to beat out Jost, Calvert or Names for a spot. And at that point, the law of diminishing returns is in effect.

Ultimately, this team is 8-2-1 in its last 11 games and reinforcements are coming soon. Things aren't as dire as you're portraying.

I still think Pageau or Demelo should be here. But it would’ve been tough for us to outbid the Islanders for JGP without a 2nd.

 

[henchman21]

Some of this probably comes down to what we're considering as depth reinforcements. When I hear depth, I'm thinking bottom pairing defensemen, bottom 6 forwards like Namestnikov, etc. I'm not upset more of those moves weren't made because I think people are overreacting to the injuries in the short term, and I don't think it would've moved the needle on the Cup odds this year.

Now, if the argument is that the team would be better with another top 6 wing or top 4 D like Petry, then yeah, I think we were all on board for that at the deadline. The deals just didn't seem to be out there.

The name that changed hands that I wanted the Avs in on before the trade happened and especially when the deal was reached was Trocheck. There are other names I think the Avs could have worked on, but that is a player that moved in a deal where the Avs could have matched. Defense has been thinner, but the prices haven't been strong either. The rentals that moved at the deadline were around a 3rd round pick. Skjei and Martinez were the only defensemen with term term moved and they cost a decent amount (though not a ton for low end top 4 guys). The winger market was crazy.

That is just the deadline area though. There were opportunities to fill the holes elsewhere. Even as simple as not trading Soda as a cap dump (that the Avs ended up not needing).

I'm pretty firmly on the side if you're going to have to give up something tangible in a trade (ie not a late round pick), then you might as well pay up bigger and solve an issue.

 

[Matt Roberts]

I still think Pageau or Demelo should be here. But it would’ve been tough for us to outbid the Islanders for JGP without a 2nd.

Demelo seems like the biggest miss, factoring in cost vs contribution. JGP would've been a nice pickup, but I'm not too upset about not paying that price, both in terms of trade assets and the extension.

 

[Balthazar]

Even as simple as not trading Soda as a cap dump (that the Avs ended up not needing).

It's crazy the number of people who aren't bothered with the Avs not using their cap space this year and now icing half an AHL roster.

 

[Matt Roberts]

The name that changed hands that I wanted the Avs in on before the trade happened and especially when the deal was reached was Trocheck. There are other names I think the Avs could have worked on, but that is a player that moved in a deal where the Avs could have matched. Defense has been thinner, but the prices haven't been strong either. The rentals that moved at the deadline were around a 3rd round pick. Skjei and Martinez were the only defensemen with term term moved and they cost a decent amount (though not a ton for low end top 4 guys). The winger market was crazy.

That is just the deadline area though. There were opportunities to fill the holes elsewhere. Even as simple as not trading Soda as a cap dump (that the Avs ended up not needing).

I'm pretty firmly on the side if you're going to have to give up something tangible in a trade (ie not a late round pick), then you might as well pay up bigger and solve an issue.

I don't think we're far apart philosophically. I wasn't on the Trochek bandwagon and didn't see any Forward deals I would've wanted to be a part of. There may have been a missed opportunity to bolster the D depth, but when a Petry deal with Montreal didn't materialize, I wasn't overly concerned about the rest. I do agree there was an opportunity cost to the unused cap space and that's probably my biggest complaint. At least try to help facilitate a deal and turn that cap space into a future draft pick or prospect.

The loss of Soda doesn't bother me much, but the over reliance on Jost does. They've missed opportunities waiting on him, and you can't afford to do that in a contention window.

 

[Matt Roberts]

It's crazy the number of people who aren't bothered with the Avs not using their cap space this year and now icing half an AHL roster.

Personally, I just think it's short-sighted to build your deadline philosophy around a 6-8 game stretch. Yeah, the injuries are frustrating, but they're still winning and we'll see guys returning very soon. I'm bothered about wasting the cap space as an asset, but not because they didn't add roster filler at the deadline.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It's crazy the number of people who aren't bothered with the Avs not using their cap space this year and now icing half an AHL roster.

I think I’m one of the outlier’s, but I’m completely comfortable with what Sakic has done.

The team is going to look pretty sweet once they get some bodies back.

 

[Balthazar]

I think I’m one of the outlier’s, but I’m completely comfortable with what Sakic has done.

The team is going to look pretty sweet once they get some bodies back.

Why are you assuming that no one else is going to get injured and everyone will come back?

 

[rmthomson21]

It's crazy the number of people who aren't bothered with the Avs not using their cap space this year and now icing half an AHL roster.

If I were MacKinnon (which I'm definitely not) I'd be taking a long, hard look at what Sakic's doing with all of the "less" that I said I'd take again before I really do it. We can crow all we want about MacK's great contract but he could be making a whole lot more and still playing on the same team right now.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I still think Pageau or Demelo should be here. But it would’ve been tough for us to outbid the Islanders for JGP without a 2nd.

We would have had to beat WIn for DeMelo as well as their 3rd was higher than ours. Without a 2nd we would have had to add another lower pick or a prospect. I have no idea if the Avs were in on DeMelo but if they were I suspect the price to beat WIN was too high for them. I would have liked DeMelo on this team though depending on that price.