GDT: Game 67: Avalanche vs Predators | 1 PM MT | March 5, 2016

[AslanRH]

Turn around and whack that puck sitting in the slot towards the boards. Anything but a weak little poke that only moves the puck five feet.

Guess I can't see it when I watch the replay. He stretched to reach it and had no leverage as it was much less "whacking it" using his backhand to the boards.

 

[RockLobster]

You keep implying that people don't think the players are at fault and it's all Roy, which isn't the case.

Wow...you could've fooled me with how many people's first posts after a loss are (usually) "Fire Roy".

I've said my piece, I'm not looking to change anyone's mind. The team shouldn't need any extra motivation to step up right now, with the Playoff picture the way it is, but they continuously find ways to lose important games.

 

[bohlmeister]

So the people that are at practice, covering the team, are lying about it?

Good lord, that's a ridiculous stance to have. Of course, with your rhetoric this season, it's not unexpected.

For the record, that isn't my stance. My stance is that Roy is too lenient, and hasn't used icetime to punish and reward players like a coach is supposed to. That is the power that a coach has to use and he hasn't punished these guys enough for making bad plays. When there isn't accountability it all falls apart. It is a part of managing people. I have mentioned this numerous times.

I am disappointed in the juvenile rebuttals and opinion slinging coming from a Mod BTW. I get that everyone has different opinions, and it can get heated after big games. But a mod is supposed to be controlling it, not adding fuel.

 

[dahrougem2]

Don't see many optimistic posts right now

I think the negativity has to do more with Nashville and Minnesota likely finishing better than us these final 15 games. Especially Nashville, who has points in 12 straight now.

 

[AslanRH]

Don't see many optimistic posts right now

but you don't see a ton of doom and gloom from many who supported the trade either.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yeah, I'd throw him into that category. Still, if we go with that, it's 7 players. Not a very big list, and not nearly enough if you ask me.

I've said in the past that I prefer a smart player to a physically gifted player 100 times over. It's how I think a team should be built

i very much agree with that.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

I'm okay with the reactions after this game. People seem to be presenting better arguments and it doesn't sound as whiny as in past games. Almost tolerable.

 

[AvsRobin]

Well, I mean when you, or him, have one reaction to an Avs loss (a loss in which they didn't play as bad as they have in other L's this season) and that's: "Fire Roy!", then yeah, I'm going want you guys to accept that the players share a huge part of the blame.

At some point, you can't keep cycling coach's and expect players to be more than what they are--and some of ours seem to think that the wins will come easy. That first season with Roy was a mind**** for some of those guys (and some people here, too). They've been treated to a rude awakening in every game since then.

So yeah, when/if Roy is fired (or just quits), and those certain players continuing playing in the same fashion, then I'd hope the people who ONLY say "Fire Roy!" after a L will maybe see that those certain players need to have, as I said, their feet held to the fire.

You make it sound like we are the Oilers and have had five coaches in five years or whatever. Most players on this team has only had Roy as their coach while playing for the Avs.

What is your honest take on this, do you think zero problems behind the bench or just minor, or just bigger problems on the players side to be solved first?

And what really makes you think that this core isn't good enough? Present some examples, please. ("they don't want it enough" doesn't count)

I see you constantely defend Roy and blame the core, but have never seen you present any reasons as to why you have that stance. You just make arrogant remarks to anyone who thinks coaching is a problem but never explain why you disagree. It would just be interesting to hear.

 

[RockLobster]

For the record, that isn't my stance. My stance is that Roy is too lenient, and hasn't used icetime to punish and reward players like a coach is supposed to. That is the power that a coach has to use and he hasn't punished these guys enough for making bad plays. When there isn't accountability it all falls apart. It is a part of managing people. I have mentioned this numerous times.

I am disappointed in the juvenile rebuttals and opinion slinging coming from a Mod BTW. I get that everyone has different opinions, and it can get heated after big games. But a mod is supposed to be controlling it, not adding fuel.

So you're disappointed that I have an opinion and it's different from yours, and that only regular posters should be able to be "heated" after a game?

Amazing.

So, we should just be robots, I guess.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

I'm okay with the reactions after this game. People seem to be presenting better arguments and it doesn't sound as whiny as in past games. Almost tolerable.

nvm...

 

[InjuredChoker]

avs playoff hopes aren't done but they aren't looking very good either.

preds have 8 more points and a game in hand. minny 2 points with a game in hand. they also have pretty soft schedule compared to avs.

would help if they lose b2b game against the blues tomorrow. they'll also have to travel.

and despite that the fact they have won a lot of games lately, they haven't played well. i don't think they'll maintain this pace that they've had after the coaching change.

 

[The Pwnerer]

This team and their lack of urgency.... The inability to hold leads has been going on for 2+ years. Is it in their heads or could it be our "system"? I wanted to think it was just that the young guys were inexperienced, but this has gone for what seems like forever. Not only that but this issue should have improved with the numerous veteran additions this team made. Its makes you wonder if its less so the players but the coach behind the bench and the strategies he employs.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Wow...you could've fooled me with how many people's first posts after a loss are (usually) "Fire Roy".

I've said my piece, I'm not looking to change anyone's mind. The team shouldn't need any extra motivation to step up right now, with the Playoff picture the way it is, but they continuously find ways to lose important games.

I don't think most people are saying the problem is motivation. Coaching goes far far beyond motivation in 2016. Motivation doesn't reduce repeated mistakes or mismanaged ice-time, good structure does.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

While the last four 3rds have been bad, generally they have played well against playoff caliber teams this year. It's the crap losses to bottom feeding teams that is going to cost them the playoffs in the end.

vs. Columbus 0-2
vs. Toronto 0-2
vs. Carolina 0-1-1
vs. Arizona 0-1-1
vs. Vancouver 0-2
vs. Calgary 1-1
vs. Ottawa 1-1
vs. Buffalo 1-1

That's 3-11-3 (9 points)

 

[S E P H]

FTR I think Boedker has been decent, I don't have so much an issue with the deal but more the philosophy. I get some folks think we didn't give up much anyway. But that's another fight for another day. My issue today is if y'all genuinely felt that the players brought in were going to make a difference, why can't they within the next 15 games? If we aren't that far off then there's still a chance, no? A lot can happen in 15 games.

There is absolutely a chance. BUT they lost thrid periods at the beginning of be season, lost them at the middle of the season, and the same thing has happened so far in the fine stretch as well. The most consistent thing this team is at is blowing the lead.

I understand that Sacco sucked, but he was still a coach under a different regime that should qualify. That team also had no inability to close out games under him either, I think it justifies that the core is the problem. Again not in talent, but mentality.

 

[Foppa2118]

Guess I can't see it when I watch the replay. He stretched to reach it and had no leverage as it was much less "whacking it" using his backhand to the boards.

You see a puck sitting in the slot surrounded by the opposition you don't weakly poke at it. You get it the F outta there. Defense 101.

He was easily close enough to make a desperation swipe at that puck to get it out of the slot.

 

[JoemAvs]

There is absolutely a chance. BUT they lost thrid periods at the beginning of be season, lost them at the middle of the season, and the same thing has happened so far in the fine stretch as well. The most consistent thing this team is at is blowing the lead.

I understand that Sacco sucked, but he was still a coach under a different regime that should qualify. That team also had no inability to close out games under him either, I think it justifies that the core is the problem. Again not in talent, but mentality.

That makes no sense SEPH. The only guys that would apply to are Duchene, McLeod, Varly and EJ.
Everyone else never played for Sacco or was a rookie/sophomore.

And those guys were crazy young and that team was not only terribly coached but simply had not much talent. They probably should have done way worse under Sacco tbh.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

I think Roy is a fantastic players coach, but a poor X's and O's coach. He needs better assistant coaches. Army is a players coach so he doesn't add anything special. He's supposed to be running the PP? How's that gone....? Farrish... not a fan

 

[dahrougem2]

And what really makes you think that this core isn't good enough? Present some examples, please. ("they don't want it enough" doesn't count)

Can't speak for him, but for me personally, it's as follows:

MacKinnon is still just 20 years old, yes. But I don't see the high hockey IQ needed in order to become a true superstar in this league. I think he'll be a great player, a 1st line centre for years to come but he will never take that next step into super-stardom because he doesn't think the game at a high enough level. And he is the player we are building our franchise around.

Duchene is wildly inconsistent, and has the same problem that MacKinnon has: doesn't think the game at a high enough level. We're seeing him now go back into his bad habits of trying to go into hero mode and do it all himself. Not good. Very good complimentary player ala Patrick Sharp on Chicago, but that's likely what he's going to be for his career.

Erik Johnson is also wildly inconsistent, and to make things worse is not a very bright hockey player. The two aforementioned players don't have high hockey IQ's but I think EJ has a very low hockey IQ. He makes the wrong decision way too often, and to compound onto that he gets hurt a lot and it takes him a ton of time to get back to 100% capability when he returns. Add to that a body that is surely to break down once he hits 30.

I've said my part about Landeskog and Barrie on the previous page discussing with IC.

Varlamov is a top-10 goaltender but I feel too often in the big game he hasn't come up with the timely save. He's saved our butts so many times but in the pressure-filled game he just doesn't have that same calmness about him for whatever reason. But a top-10 goalie is a top-10 goalie, and he should not be moved any time soon.

Bigras, Rantanen, and Zadorov are not yet able to be dissected yet imo. So that is basically the core of our team, yes? That's my take on them.

Make no mistake about it, however, Patrick Roy doesn't seem like he's going to lead this team to the promised land either. I do believe this is a 50/50 blame on both sides.

 

[Avs_19]

I understand that Sacco sucked, but he was still a coach under a different regime that should qualify. That team also had no inability to close out games under him either, I think it justifies that the core is the problem. Again not in talent, but mentality.

Is this just a Duchene thing then? He's the guy who doesn't "want it" and is the problem? Or are we throwing EJ and Varly in there as well for not closing out games?

Landeskog played one full season under Sacco as an 18 year old, Barrie played like 30 games, and MacKinnon wasn't even around.

 

[CB Joe]

I don't think you can count Sacco. The core was completely different back then.

 

[InjuredChoker]

somehow, we're only -6 in the 3rd period this season.

of course that doesn't exclude ''stat padding'' for this stat, goals in meaningless situations but still.

avs record in 1-goal games is actually pretty good too. 18-9-4, top-10 in the league. but that doesn't take into account the EN goals, like in this game which was essentially 1-goal game.

 

[RockLobster]

You make it sound like we are the Oilers and have had five coaches in five years or whatever. Most players on this team has only had Roy as their coach while playing for the Avs.

What is your honest take on this, do you think zero problems behind the bench or just minor, or just bigger problems on the players side to be solved first?

And what really makes you think that this core isn't good enough? Present some examples, please. ("they don't want it enough" doesn't count)

I see you constantely defend Roy and blame the core, but have never seen you present any reasons as to why you have that stance. You just make arrogant remarks to anyone who thinks coaching is a problem but never explain why you disagree. It would just be interesting to hear.

I feel I've listed reasons in the past, and I'll do so again. (BTW, if I make "arrogant comments", which I won't deny, then I wonder what you'd label the stuff on your Twitter feed...)

There are problems behind the bench, I just don't believe they're as big as some people make them out to be. I believe Roy could be harder on his players. Like I was saying to someone else, it seems like he's harder on them in practice, but when there's games where someone like EJ or Duchene makes several poor choices with the puck, call them out on it. The only time he's really done that is when he specifically said the "best players, EJ/Barrie/Dutchy, need to be our best players" and then he was asked if he was calling them out and he backtracked. Call them out. We all know he won't do it though, so I don't harp on it when the Avs have a particularly bad game.

I think the problem is with certain players, yes. I think Matt Duchene is a terrific example of a player who will always leave fans wanting "a little more". He's back at Center now, and as Foppa2118 alluded to, his frustrating habits are starting to seep through again. How many times, since he's been in the league, have we Avs fans watched him go through a slump, where he tries to do everything himself, tries to spin-move out of corners, etc., only for it not to work and a turnover happens? Off the top of my head, I believe the only season where he didn't have one (or didn't have a prolonged one) is the 13-14 season.

I believe there are players who expect it to "be easy" after a couple of wins, and then they lay an egg. So far this year we've seen that from Duchene, MacKinnon, and even Landeskog (who is probably my favorite player on the team), just to name a few.

I really wonder what this team would've looked like if Zadorov was ready (and he's not far off) or if Grigorenko didn't need as much on-the-fly development time as he got this season. It does boggle my mind that Rantanen is not up here, but with 15 games left in the season, might as well keep him down there.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

somehow, we're only -6 in the 3rd period this season.

of course that doesn't exclude ''stat padding'' for this stat, goals in meaningless situations but still.

avs record in 1-goal games is actually pretty good too. 18-9-4, top-10 in the league. but that doesn't take into account the EN goals, like in this game which was essentially 1-goal game.

Those ENG are definitely masking our record in 1 goal games.

 

[AvsRobin]

I don't think you can count Sacco. The core was completely different back then.

Agree. Barrie wasn't the player he is today and MacKinnon wasn't drafted yet. ROR and Stastny were huge parts.