GDT: GAME # 60 - Devils @ Canucks - 10pm ET

[Auto Pilot]

It’s pathetic this team is always just away from winning just off, moral victories galore

 

[Devs3cups]

I feel a good coach like Bruce Boudreau saw Siegenthaler was out of the line-up, and the pre-game speech was heavily about crashing the Devils crease. The Canucks flooded the Devils crease all game, creating havoc and goals galore. When you've got Colin White and Ty Smith going up against JT Miller and Bo Horvat, it's just a mismatch, plain and simple. Then when you complicate the situation with several giveaways by the forwards (looking at you, Mr. Tatar), you're not going to win unless it's Vasilevskiy in your net.

Do the Devils need better goaltending? Yes. Is that why they lost tonight? No.

I feel at least 3 of the goals against tonight were on the goalies. Statistically, they should've stopped more. Doesn't mean they don't have to brush up some other things. For example, Tatar's play on the 3rd goal was atrocious (but that's 100% a stoppable goal), and shouldn't happen. I'd also put the first one as a defensive breakdown, for example, that was stoppable.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

I just now remembered Gillies used to play in Calgary and was drafted by them.

Maybe they do play him, or maybe they just don’t give a shit about any of that.

Gillies played for Vancouver's affiliate (Utica) last season too.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Fair enough. I do think Gillies should have stopped that one, but it wasn’t quite as bad as two of the Daws leakers.

Again, I agree with you the Devils need to improve in net. I just get this feeling in the pit of my stomach when we lose games for a litany of reasons and people are thinking it's just that one thing. With league average goaltending, the Devils are still not a playoff team. They still need a more interior game and better team defense. They need an entire 3rd line. They need to be tougher to play against. I see Tampa win games when Vasilevskiy has an off-night, I see Calgary win games when Markstrom has an off-night. I still feel the Devils would have won tonight had Tatar not gift-wrapped them a breakaway at the worst possible time. The ice was tilted to NJ, but then that huge Canucks goal just took the air out of the Devils completely. We're a young team with a lot of fight, but we're still a work in progress.

 

[Oneiro]

Tatar's giveaway was bad but it's the same thing that Hughes and Bratt do and have gotten burned by, dancing on the blueline.

It's a high danger play that probably shouldn't be as common as we've made it this year. I'd argue Hughes/Bratt have earned the right to experiment and try something like that but still - imagine losing a playoff game on a similar giveaway. It's preventable. One of the reasons I'd like Ruff to be gone.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

I find it interesting that Daws game declined with two players going down in Siegenthaler and Zacha.

Zacha doubtful for tomorrow according to Ruff?

Claim Jankowski.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Colton. Please stop slagging Colin.

Excellent point. My apologies.

 

[Devs3cups]

Again, I agree with you the Devils need to improve in net. I just get this feeling in the pit of my stomach when we lose games for a litany of reasons and people are thinking it's just that one thing. With league average goaltending, the Devils are still not a playoff team. They still need a more interior game and better team defense. They need an entire 3rd line. They need to be tougher to play against. I see Tampa win games when Vasilevskiy has an off-night, I see Calgary win games when Markstrom has an off-night. I still feel the Devils would have won tonight had Tatar not gift-wrapped them a breakaway at the worst possible time. The ice was tilted to NJ, but then that huge Canucks goal just took the air out of the Devils completely. We're a young team with a lot of fight, but we're still a work in progress.

No one will disagree with your point here. No one here, that I've seen (and I'm on here a lot), is saying that goaltending is our only problem and that we'd be a playoff team with average goaltending.

The point, that I see the vast majority of the time and that I agree with, is that goaltending is and has been the BIGGEST problem (probably far and away), and that with average goaltending we're probably a bubble team, which is basically where everyone here saw us at the start of the year.

We definitely have some points to brush up on, like defensive structure, more contributions from the bottom-6, better interior presence, etc. But the goaltending has been so bad, that it's almost without a doubt the biggest problem. I don't think that's meant to dismiss other problems with the team at all, it's just factual.

 

[billingtons ghost]

You continually play AHL and subAHL goalies, you're going to lose - but we would've lost anyway. The goalies gave up some leakers but they also stole some that should've gone for goals. You can't give up that high quality shots from the slot, tapins and breakaways all night long even against good goaltending and expect to win and you certainly aren't going to win with this stable of goaltenders.

Subban deflected that one that Daws was about to catch, and the bobble cost a goal. The pass and defensive breakdown was so bad on that one with Bratt flying the zone that TWO Canucks could've walked in and scored and had to get out of each other's way. Shorthanded breakaways, wide open tap-ins off of shot-passes.

I mean, they could be a great team if they just clean up the periodic shitshows in their own end and got better than average goaltending.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Tatar's giveaway was bad but it's the same thing that Hughes and Bratt do and have gotten burned by, dancing on the blueline.

It's a high danger play that probably shouldn't be as common as we've made it this year. I'd argue Hughes/Bratt have earned the right to experiment and try something like that but still - imagine losing a playoff game on a similar giveaway. It's preventable. One of the reasons I'd like Ruff to be gone.

I can't imagine that Lindy Ruff isn't saying at least SOMETHING about the blueline turnovers... I mean, when a veteran with some offensive talent in Tatar makes that play.... you're right - it's just a total lack of discipline.

Bratt and Jack will learn but we shouldn't be waiting on Novak to figure out what a stupid, dangerous and really obviously low-percentage play looks like in the NHL.

 

[Oneiro]

I can't imagine that Lindy Ruff isn't saying at least SOMETHING about the blueline turnovers... I mean, when a veteran with some offensive talent in Tatar makes that play.... you're right - it's just a total lack of discipline.

Bratt and Jack will learn but we shouldn't be waiting on Novak to figure out what a stupid, dangerous and really obviously low-percentage play looks like in the NHL.

Considering who's coming in (L. Hughes, Holtz), the playmaking and skating we have and that the key guys are getting more experienced, there's actually no reason not to tighten up a bit and play with more stucture. We have guys who can create period, I don't think they'll be constrained by anything a new coach does.

I just don't think truly good offensive players are ever held back much by systems. Yeah, guys like Hossa, Elias, Nieds, etc. would have higher totals but their careers were way longer than peers because of the ability to gauge risk.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Is it just me or does it frustrate you guys that we have to roll out Gilles and get shit pumped . We need to do something other than hope a rookie can at least keep games respectable. It feels like any game Gilles plays and it’s gong to be at least 5-6 goals against.

I think what frustrates me is that every time Gillies goes in, the opposing team's announcers pump his tires with: "we faced him when he was with the Blues and he was very good for them that night".

I think the guy was pretty bad to begin with, but I think we've done a good job of making him into just a complete basket case.

Clearly, they feel like throwing Daws to the wolves is going significantly better than throwing Schmid to the wolves, but shit - Fitz DEALT to get Gillies, so I'm really not sure what else we can do?

Call up some cat from the ECHL? Dress the equipment manager?

Anyone we put in there that we could acquire now without dealing real assets of value is going to get shit pumped too - at this point in the season.

 

[Devs3cups]

I can't imagine that Lindy Ruff isn't saying at least SOMETHING about the blueline turnovers... I mean, when a veteran with some offensive talent in Tatar makes that play.... you're right - it's just a total lack of discipline.

Bratt and Jack will learn but we shouldn't be waiting on Novak to figure out what a stupid, dangerous and really obviously low-percentage play looks like in the NHL.

I was screaming at my TV when he made that play lol. Speaking of Jack, I do feel he's playing it a little bit more safe in the zone these last few weeks, which is a good thing, and doesn't seem to affect his offensive output whatsoever.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Considering who's coming in (L. Hughes, Holtz), the playmaking and skating we have and that the key guys are getting more experienced, there's actually no reason not to tighten up a bit and play with more stucture. We have guys who can create period, I don't think they'll be constrained by anything a new coach does.

I just don't think truly good offensive players are ever held back much by systems. Yeah, guys like Hossa, Elias, Nieds, etc. would have higher totals but their careers were way longer than peers because of the ability to gauge risk.

Yep. Brilliant post. I agree.

Edit: My God if Hughes could put up 100+points and steal pucks like he does, AND play with discipline without being a liability at all?

 

[Devs3cups]

It's also pretty crazy how we're number 1 in the whole league in HDCF% at 5-on-5 (3rd in all strengths). We're basically getting the highest percentage of HDC in games we play in overall, all while 7th best in HDCA, and not seeing better results. Truth is we aren't giving up that many high danger chances, and are getting horrible goaltending against them.

 

[billingtons ghost]

It's also pretty crazy how we're number 1 in the whole league in HDCF% at 5-on-5 (3rd in all strengths), so we're basically gettting tthe highest percentage of HDC in games we play in, all while 7th best in HDCA, and not seeing better results. Truth is we aren't giving up that many high danger chances, and are getting horrible goaltending against them.

Meh... I'm so NOT a fan of HD anything - it's such garbage as evidenced tonight by Subban tipping/deflecting a shot that isn't in THAT close. That's not HD but it sure as **** is high danger. Leaving Horvat alone with that release to walk in isn't really HD but it really is.

Distance from the net doesn't matter to NHL goalies nearly as much as a bazillion other factors.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

The obvious solution is to sign Colton Gillies out of retirement.

 

[Devs3cups]

Meh... I'm so NOT a fan of HD anything - it's such garbage as evidenced tonight by Subban tipping/deflecting a shot that isn't in THAT close. That's not HD but it sure as **** is high danger. Leaving Horvat alone with that release to walk in isn't really HD but it really is.

Although I get that it's not perfect metrics, I think that if it's based on the same variables for every team, it can still paint a somewhat accurate picture of the situation at hand, no?

I don't like to dismiss the eye test, but I feel like they're pretty useful in their own right.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Although I get that it's not perfect metrics, I think that if it's based on the same variables for every team, it can still paint a somewhat accurate picture of the situation at hand, no?

I don't like to dismiss the eye test, but I feel like they're pretty useful in their own right.

Well, if I gave them a more accurate name like: RelativeDistanceShotScoringFrequency or some such nonsense, does it dim your enthusiasm for them? I mean, I think the sexy 'High Danger Chance' is such a misleading misnomer that sucks everyone into believing something they aren't. Can you really glean how good a goalie was by how well he stopped shots based purely on angle to the goal and distance?

If I put Ovechkin in the same spot in his spot above the circle, and let him fire 100 shots at any goalie, will he really score significantly fewer than Mason Geerston on the doorstep from two feet out?

I mean, I would think our HD SV% is really a heck of alot lower than other team's, because we probably give up lots of goals to guys wide open walking the slot who have enough time and space after getting a pass out in front from behind the net that they can shoot and likely score from anywhere.

I'm really just hopelessly in love with the idea that someday we'll have goaltending stats that mean something, and I don't like the conclusions that folks are drawing from these statistics that are just named something great so people will buy in, but aren't representative of their name.

 

[glenwo2]

Last year I thought Bratt was over rated and wanted him demoted to light a fire under his ass… …. Lol .I don’t think it is possible to be any more wrong .

Nice edit from : "And I thought Bratt was over rated last year…. Lol . Ok so I was wrong once in my life."

I was going to ask "only once?"

 

[glenwo2]

Jack/Bratt points please

I think we got them.

This is really the only reason I watch this team this season.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Claim Jankowski.

Concussion it looked like - he was seeing double after head firsting into the boards.

 

[Camille the Eel]

You continually play AHL and subAHL goalies, you're going to lose - but we would've lost anyway. The goalies gave up some leakers but they also stole some that should've gone for goals. You can't give up that high quality shots from the slot, tapins and breakaways all night long even against good goaltending and expect to win and you certainly aren't going to win with this stable of goaltenders.

Subban deflected that one that Daws was about to catch, and the bobble cost a goal. The pass and defensive breakdown was so bad on that one with Bratt flying the zone that TWO Canucks could've walked in and scored and had to get out of each other's way. Shorthanded breakaways, wide open tap-ins off of shot-passes.

I mean, they could be a great team if they just clean up the periodic shitshows in their own end and got better than average goaltending.

We came out flat and let them get up two zip. And they came out flying after losing 12 straight to us and getting embarrassed last week in Jersey. Then we lose Zacha and the bench is short. And we are already missing Siegenthaler and that shows in the total chaos around our net all evening. Then Dawes lets three goals go through him - I am a fan of the kid, but it’s a night of growing pains for him.

And yeah a ton of other mistakes and turnovers.

Impressive that we fought back to tie it once and had a 4 minute power play with a chance to tie again from two down. But the stuff above catches up with you most nights.

 

[NewarkChampNJD]

Love,the kid, but I still can't believe how often Jack wipes out. Skate sharpening or occasional vertigo? Anybody else notice how often he is mopping the ice?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Siegs was out? No wonder we got caved.