GDT: Game #6 We’re not F**king Leaving

cinchronicity

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Ok, but we have seen Jost tried in a top-six role several times throughout his career and it did not work. I don't think it's going to magically click for him if he gets traded somewhere else or was given top-six minutes here.

Everyone and their mothers could see Sam Bennett being misused based on his playoff performances every single year for Calgary and then the 3-4 games he'd get on Calgary's top line, then go back to the 4th line.

All in all, we're going to agree to disagree. We simply view this player differently. I see a 4th line centre that is slower than most forwards in today's game and too small/weak to make up for that lack of speed. Hell of a hard worker, willing to kill penalties and adapt to fill a role but not a guy I want anywhere higher than the 4th line.

Respectfully, I think it is too early to tell about Jost. I realize that sounds ridiculous for a #10 pick in 2016, but he really just found his groove the second half of this year. I have hated Bednar's lack of hockey smarts for years, but he got this one right by developing Jost's confidence and playmaking. Jost's confidence. I think Jost is either an elite 4C or an above average 3C. I see potential for him to occasionally slide into 2C for an injury, or a 10 game suspension to a knucklehead. I do feel that we should give 'NewJost' a full season to show what he has. One issue, in this small sample, is that he was done no favors by the Bednar Blender. There was very little continuity with his wings. I suspect that Saad . Jost > Nule could be a terrific third line, absolutely dominating other teams third. But lets see how Jost does the first 20 games of next season before declaring him either a success or failure.
 

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Respectfully, I think it is too early to tell about Jost. I realize that sounds ridiculous for a #10 pick in 2016, but he really just found his groove the second half of this year. I have hated Bednar's lack of hockey smarts for years, but he got this one right by developing Jost's confidence and playmaking. Jost's confidence. I think Jost is either an elite 4C or an above average 3C. I see potential for him to occasionally slide into 2C for an injury, or a 10 game suspension to a knucklehead. I do feel that we should give 'NewJost' a full season to show what he has. One issue, in this small sample, is that he was done no favors by the Bednar Blender. There was very little continuity with his wings. I suspect that Saad . Jost > Nule could be a terrific third line, absolutely dominating other teams third. But lets see how Jost does the first 20 games of next season before declaring him either a success or failure.
I'd keep Nuke and Jost on a 3rd line together for a bit. They do a good job together. Would be nice if they had someone on the line with them who could finish, because both of them couldn't do it if putting the puck in the net was the only thing that would solve world hunger
 

Northern Avs Fan

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Our entire D was outplayed by their D, not even close.

No. We had 3 defenceman who had a shitty series, the other guys played well.

I look at some posts and wonder if people watched beyond game 4 of this series. If the goaltender shows up, the Avs are probably winning a game 7, playing the Habs and likely onto the cup final.
 

cinchronicity

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Timmins was pretty up and down for me. Even when he was having good moments he was still having tough moments on other shifts in pretty much all the games. He was at is best the last couple games I thought, but he still wasn't playing mistake free hockey.

Liked what he did when he was skating with he puck for the most part, but the defense was a little scrambly at times, and his passing under pressure in the D zone was poor at times as well.

I think he benefited from having a smaller role. If he's given more than the 10:46 average he had in the playoffs, I think some of the problem areas for him would have been exposed more.

Either way it's HUGE step in the right direction for him after missing so much time, but it's not quite clear to me whether he'll be able to develop into the reliable top 4 D man he looked like he would become prior to his concussion.

Hopefully he does but I think Barron may make him expendable at some point if he pans out like I think he will.

Unlike Graves, Timmins has hockey smarts. Sometimes, that type of player takes a bit more time to develop. More than any player but Jost this year, we coudl see Timmins gelling. I think that is the Avs pair him with a large, stay at home defenseman, he could be one of the best 6D in the game in a year

Makar / Byram
Girard / Toews
Timmins/ UFA of some sorts

Barron or Helleson are both precisely the type of guy Timmins needs as a partner, though I suspect both will play full seasons with the Eagles. But getting an ELC in that slot ASAP is a priority.

This all assumes EJ is on LTIR and Graves is in a different uniform.
 
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Pokecheque

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I will say that for all of Sammy's struggles he was pinned with an objectively terrible defensive partner for practically the entire playoffs in either Graves or Nemeth and you just can't do that. It doesn't account for ALL his struggles, but when the supposedly physical defenseman on the other side is constantly out of position, making dumb decisions with the puck, and is continually losing battles, it's going to take a toll on #49's play as well. It didn't help that he also had to play his off-side, which at times led to some confusion.

G was at his very best partnered with Toews. Bednar didn't really have the both of them out there very often except for limited power play time. The rest of the time, Girard was stuck with a boat anchor. I guarantee he would've had a better showing alongside someone like MacDonald or Byram. How much better...I don't know. But a lot of times Girard was getting the blame for turnovers in this series, a lot of times it was because the team got stuck in their own zone. And a big reason they did was because 27 or 24 was on the ice.

Respectfully, I think it is too early to tell about Jost. I realize that sounds ridiculous for a #10 pick in 2016, but he really just found his groove the second half of this year. I have hated Bednar's lack of hockey smarts for years, but he got this one right by developing Jost's confidence and playmaking. Jost's confidence. I think Jost is either an elite 4C or an above average 3C. I see potential for him to occasionally slide into 2C for an injury, or a 10 game suspension to a knucklehead. I do feel that we should give 'NewJost' a full season to show what he has. One issue, in this small sample, is that he was done no favors by the Bednar Blender. There was very little continuity with his wings. I suspect that Saad . Jost > Nule could be a terrific third line, absolutely dominating other teams third. But lets see how Jost does the first 20 games of next season before declaring him either a success or failure.

No, if they continue to kick the can down the road and wait and see if Jost becomes a star then this team will continue to underachieve in the playoffs. He did a great job solidifying the lineup and become an adequate, though not not great third line center, which spurred the rest of the lineup forward and go on an amazing run, but in the end he has to be an offensive producer to some degree...and he clearly isn't. It's not to early to tell--he is a very good 4th line defensive forward with serious limitations. He's an okay-ish third line center when the two guys above him are going great guns. The minute one of those guys gets hurt/suspended/struggles, he's not anywhere near good enough to play up in the lineup. And unless they start changing the way games are called in the postseason, he's just going to be a liability out there. This is the second postseason in a row the Avs have come up against a big, physical team and he was completely run over every time he took the ice.

He's not a failure, but he's not a core piece to this team.
 

avs1dacup

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So I know its not reason we lost, but anyone else find it absolutely absurd that the last real penalty (not an over the glass which they are forced to call) they called on Vegas was in the 2nd period of game 4, a matching minor for roughing.

You have to go back to period 1 of game 4 to get a true penalty on Vegas, which they quickly negated with a BS call on Makar 20 seconds into the PP.

We basically went 2 and half games with the refs not calling a single true infraction on Vegas. That's pathetic and inexcusable by the refs. There is no way a team as physical as Vegas didn't take one penalty in 2 and half games other than over the glass which is self inflicted, the league should be torched for this. Not sure why this isn't a bigger topic. It's simply appalling.

Let me link you to my friends Twitter post, which I fact checked for him. It's not just bullshit but embarrassing as a fan of this sport that this is how they want to promote it and grow it.

 

Iceberg

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No. We had 3 defenceman who had a shitty series, the other guys played well.

I look at some posts and wonder if people watched beyond game 4 of this series. If the goaltender shows up, the Avs are playing the Habs and likely onto the cup final.

Even if you believe Makar and Toews played well, Peitrangelo and Martinez were superior.
 

cinchronicity

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I'd keep Nuke and Jost on a 3rd line together for a bit. They do a good job together. Would be nice if they had someone on the line with them who could finish, because both of them couldn't do it if putting the puck in the net was the only thing that would solve world hunger

This is spot on. Each line needs a snipe. I presume Sakic thought that would be Mikko, Burky and Donskoi. So Nuke >Jost Burky holds some promise.

I suspect this is the first time that Maya Angelou is quoted in a hockwey blog, but it makes sense for the contemporary Avs: when someone show you who they are, believe them the first time. Sakic paid no attention to this notion, and brought the Avs too many players assuming that the coaching staff would miraculously change them. Grubi lost his spot in Washington because he could neither move laterally nor make a save with his glove to save his life. Burky and Donskoi lost their spots because they were uber-streaky. Did anyone think Kadri could hold it together for 4 years without a major? ( I am a huge Kadri fan and liked the acquisition, but I know this suspension was coming sooner or later.)

For the Avs to win the cup, a few tings need sot happen:

1) They need to draft better. The Avs are not going to get the #4 slot each year, and a trained money can do a better job of talent evaluation that the Avs' staff. It seems that is on the way.
2) Sakic needs to abort his search for diamonds in the rough and make a blockbuster deal. This team needs a legit elite 2C, and Newhook will not be it next year. He will probably be elite in 3 years, but my ulcer can't take the wait.
3) Find a cost-effective solution in the net. Grubi has proven over and over again he is not the guy to win a cup. I don't think Bednar has a legit 'system' but if he does, it is one which protects the goal tender with mobile defensemen. He dos not face that many tough shots, and people can Corsi themselves to death, but the eye test is still the best evaluation and Grubi is hanging his hat on stats caused by the team, not his prowess. I certain am not giving him a raise, and I wonder if he is worth a penny more than his $3.33 AAV in a cap constrained economy.
4) Fire the entire coaching staff, except the excellent guys in the video room. I have been known all year as the biggest proponent of firing Bednar. I don't hate Bednar and I think he would be a remarkable elite AHL coach, or a decent coach for a bottom dweller loaded with kids. He has a way of developing a player's confidence and vision. That is valuable, just not in the NHL playoffs. Sadly, the Avs only have Mac for so long, and Bednar is not going to improve fast enough to take advantage of the Mac window. Parkilla has done nothing to improve the flaws which cost Grubi is starter spot in Washington. Pratt has done nothing with the defenders and may have made Graves worse by making him a shot blocker, not a digger along the boards. Bennet seems to do nothing but tell Bednar that all his bad ideas are good.

So, in general, if the Avs want a shot at the cup next year, Sakic must:

1) Go all in on a coach who can make a cup run: Gallant. I know Seattle wants him. I know the Rangers want him. But he is leading neither to the cup in the next few years.
2) Go all in on an elite 2C. This team would be hard to beat with Mac > Eichel > Newhook > Jost down the center, though I suspect both Newhook and Kadri might have to head to Buffalo ( along with assets) to pry Eichel free.

In short, Sakic has to put his balls on the table. His slow and steady built will snuff Mac's championship window, and from his comments lat night, I woul dnot bet the farm that Mac stays if Sakic does not step out of his conservative shell and make some dramatic moves.
 

dahrougem2

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Respectfully, I think it is too early to tell about Jost. I realize that sounds ridiculous for a #10 pick in 2016, but he really just found his groove the second half of this year. I have hated Bednar's lack of hockey smarts for years, but he got this one right by developing Jost's confidence and playmaking. Jost's confidence. I think Jost is either an elite 4C or an above average 3C. I see potential for him to occasionally slide into 2C for an injury, or a 10 game suspension to a knucklehead. I do feel that we should give 'NewJost' a full season to show what he has. One issue, in this small sample, is that he was done no favors by the Bednar Blender. There was very little continuity with his wings. I suspect that Saad . Jost > Nule could be a terrific third line, absolutely dominating other teams third. But lets see how Jost does the first 20 games of next season before declaring him either a success or failure.
Come on now. We're talking about a guy that has yet to crack 30 points in a season in four full seasons now with the Avalanche. That is not above average 3C level production, and while I get it he hasn't been used in that role his entire career his production this season was even less than the last two seasons.

I just don't see it at all. He's a 4th line centre through and through, but not a 4th line centre I want because he is too slow and small to play a true "4th line" role.
 
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larueskee

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You struck lightening in the bottle with Makar. I'm still not 100% on him because he acquired 22 of his 44 points on the powerplay. Subtract those points and he is a 22 point guy. Now if you think you will catch lightening in a bottle with Byram, Timmons or any other young defensive prospect in the sytem look at the past first round drafts that were defensemen. I see a bunch of future phenoms who turned into fair players, quite a few guys who never got a game in the NHL, and many just being one of the guys on a team.
 
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SaltySkywalker

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You struck lightening in the bottle with Makar. I'm still not 100% on him because he acquired 22 of his 44 points on the powerplay. Subtract those points and he is a 22 point guy. Now if you think you will catch lightening in a bottle with Byram, Timmons or any other young defensive prospect in the sytem look at the past first round drafts that were defensemen. I see a bunch of future phenoms who turned into fair players, quite a few guys who never got a game in the NHL, and many just being one of the guys on a team.

One more shitty post and you reach the devil's number.
 

SirLoinOfCloth

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Yes, let's hold power play points against a player who was the primary reason the team's power play was effective this season. Just...erase those points. They don't count, even though a power play goal counts the exact f***ing same as an even strength one. :shakehead
I've seen this sort of thing done a couple of times around here the last few days to justify hot takes.

For example: If you take away the Avs first game win (it didn't really count anyway), and game 2 (because they didn't deserve to win) they got swept.

giphy.gif
 

NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS

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You struck lightening in the bottle with Makar. I'm still not 100% on him because he acquired 22 of his 44 points on the powerplay. Subtract those points and he is a 22 point guy. Now if you think you will catch lightening in a bottle with Byram, Timmons or any other young defensive prospect in the sytem look at the past first round drafts that were defensemen. I see a bunch of future phenoms who turned into fair players, quite a few guys who never got a game in the NHL, and many just being one of the guys on a team.

The last time a full season was played 22 points was around 100th for defense.

This season 22 points was around 50th.

Makar needs to bring more to the table.
 
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Turbonium

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You struck lightening in the bottle with Makar. I'm still not 100% on him because he acquired 22 of his 44 points on the powerplay. Subtract those points and he is a 22 point guy. Now if you think you will catch lightening in a bottle with Byram, Timmons or any other young defensive prospect in the sytem look at the past first round drafts that were defensemen. I see a bunch of future phenoms who turned into fair players, quite a few guys who never got a game in the NHL, and many just being one of the guys on a team.

You know your post is garbage when Dizee is the only person to like it.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

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The last time a full season was played 22 points was around 100th for defense.

This season 22 points was around 50th.

Makar needs to bring more to the table.
Did he forget his balls there?

Anyway nonsense aside I saw the Mack interview days later. The kid is all fire. Reminds me of another C that just hates to lose. What a competitor. He did say vegas are bigger and rung them. In the off season they might want to bring in a gritty player. Although good Kadri and a healthy LOC was it his name the series might have changed. Also EJ. I dont think anyone should panic, luckily sakic never does so this team should be in a good spot for a deep run next season.
 

The Kingslayer

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Yes, let's hold power play points against a player who was the primary reason the team's power play was effective this season. Just...erase those points. They don't count, even though a power play goal counts the exact f***ing same as an even strength one. :shakehead
If you get a point on the PP it should count as half because ya'know it dont count for much lol.
 
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Foppa2118

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You struck lightening in the bottle with Makar. I'm still not 100% on him because he acquired 22 of his 44 points on the powerplay. Subtract those points and he is a 22 point guy. Now if you think you will catch lightening in a bottle with Byram, Timmons or any other young defensive prospect in the sytem look at the past first round drafts that were defensemen. I see a bunch of future phenoms who turned into fair players, quite a few guys who never got a game in the NHL, and many just being one of the guys on a team.

And you claim you're not trolling when you come here?
 
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The Kingslayer

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No. We had 3 defenceman who had a shitty series, the other guys played well.

I look at some posts and wonder if people watched beyond game 4 of this series. If the goaltender shows up, the Avs are probably winning a game 7, playing the Habs and likely onto the cup final.
The following dman played shitty. Ryan Graves, nemeth, Girard. Ryan Graves had a solid series against the Blues and then cratered against the Knights.
 
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Tommy Shelby

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Yeah, Makar sucks. What kind of scrub only manages 31 points in 35 playoff games? What a fluke, won't last.

He should try being more consistent, like Ian Cole who has 24 points in his 96 playoff games, at least he doesn't try to show everyone up and only collects a modest amount of points so there's no way to mistake his play as lightning in a bottle.
 

The Kingslayer

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Yeah, Makar sucks. What kind of scrub only manages 31 points in 35 playoff games? What a fluke, won't last.

He should try being more consistent, like Ian Cole who has 24 points in his 96 playoff games, at least he doesn't try to show everyone up and only collects a modest amount of points so there's no way to mistake his play as lightning in a bottle.
Ian Cole to good for NHL
 

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