GDT: Game #6 We’re not F**king Leaving

[Foppa2118]

Timmins was a positive for me

Timmins was pretty up and down for me. Even when he was having good moments he was still having tough moments on other shifts in pretty much all the games. He was at is best the last couple games I thought, but he still wasn't playing mistake free hockey.

Liked what he did when he was skating with he puck for the most part, but the defense was a little scrambly at times, and his passing under pressure in the D zone was poor at times as well.

I think he benefited from having a smaller role. If he's given more than the 10:46 average he had in the playoffs, I think some of the problem areas for him would have been exposed more.

Either way it's HUGE step in the right direction for him after missing so much time, but it's not quite clear to me whether he'll be able to develop into the reliable top 4 D man he looked like he would become prior to his concussion.

Hopefully he does but I think Barron may make him expendable at some point if he pans out like I think he will.

 

[drhiii]

Also, f*** you Dubnyk.

f***ing prick.

Why?

 

[Metallo]

I can absolutely, 100%, blame him on that. It was not a weird bounce at all. The puck went EXACTLY where it was headed. There is zero reason for Grubi to not be sliding to the other post. The freaking puck is behind the net!!!! What wasn't one leg on a post? There are two issues with Grubi that manifested themselves in Washington as well - worst upper glove corner in the league, and no ability to go post to post. In a way, you are right, and I can't blame Grubi, as there are hours and hours of tape of him making the same mistakes, yet Bednar does nothing to insist he train better. Other than that, every Junior goalie is taught to hug a post when the puck is shot like that. For reasons only he knows, Grubi chose not to.

What are you talking about?

The 4th goal is a hard shot that missed the net and went directly to Pietro. Grubi challenged on the shot so he had a long way to go to get to the rebound. He was there but lunging and Pietro had a nice finish barely getting it by Grubi.

I’m not blaming Grubi for not making an extraordinary save.

Blaming the goalie is the easiest thing to do as a fan. But you have to look at the play of the team in front to find the real reason we lost.

 

[Metallo]

I think we need to change the make-up this team and I take our inabiliy to make 3rd period comeback as evidence. I don’t think it’s a coaching or character issue, or at least not the main issue. It’s the personel, the way we play. When the other team goes into prevent defense, we struggle. We don’t have enough ways to score. Not enough greasy goals.

My stance is that a championship team can play any style and succed. They can adapt to their opponent without losing the team’s indentity.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

The way they played this series Montreal would have beaten them, so maybe it's a blessing in disguise.

Probably true actually. We were never going to win the cup. The team wasn't good enough. We need better pieces and better team.

Garbage performance in the playoffs. Some heads needs to drop after series like this.

I have to start questioning Bednar too. Losing both these series to weaker teams(invidual),imo. Unacceptable. Dallas was worse than this but this season we had no hope Vs Fecking Vegas.. is he good enough coach to take to the end? Maybe not. So far he's been regular season coach.

Two years in a row this team had mental break down and that's on Bednar!!

 

[CharlesPuck]

What are you talking about?

The 4th goal is a hard shot that missed the net and went directly to Pietro. Grubi challenged on the shot so he had a long way to go to get to the rebound. He was there but lunging and Pietro had a nice finish barely getting it by Grubi.

I’m not blaming Grubi for not making an extraordinary save.

Blaming the goalie is the easiest thing to do as a fan. But you have to look at the play of the team in front to find the real reason we lost.

it was a routine save, if he plays the puck right. Instead he over reacts to the pass shot.

dude killed us last night. Let in super soft goals and couldn’t make the huge saves.

 

[Chiarelli]

we looked inexperienced yesterday. Which given the personnel makes sense. Feel bad for MacK he left it all out there. Time for a roster shake up we have too much of the same thing. Also Bednar probably time to move on as much as I love him.

 

[mapletreemarty]

The only consistency this team seems to have is that they are WILDLY inconsistent... the lows are f***ING Low...and the HIGHs can be astronomical and unrealistically sustainable. I think playing in this division in this COVID year really did us no favours... playing half our schedule against SJ, ARI, LA, and ANH did this team no favours in getting it ready for the post season.

Hopefully the divisions return to normal next season and we can get a better idea of where this team is at throughout the season, then maybe Sakic will do a little more then pick up Soda, Nemeth, and Dubnyk at the deadline.

 

[Nihiliste]

Pietrangelo and Theodore massively outplayed Makar/Girard/Toews. For all the talk of the modern NHL, it’s still more or less the old school game in the playoffs

 

[wayninja]

So. It wasn't all just a bad dream.

 

[chet1926]

Yah I think Cale can learn from this alot better than most. If he can stay healthy theres really no ceiling you can place on him. Pair him with Bo and let them build chemistry together. Those two are going to be the future leaders of this defense.

Exactly this, those two need to be playing together now, and building chemistry.

 

[henchman21]

Pietrangelo and Theodore massively outplayed Makar/Girard/Toews. For all the talk of the modern NHL, it’s still more or less the old school game in the playoffs

This is going to be the talk of the summer. The most extreme of the new school got beat by old school hockey. Toronto got dumped. Carolina was brushed off.

 

[Turbonium]

Exactly this, those two need to be playing together now, and building chemistry.

Watch us see Makar paired with Nemeth next year.

 

[Bender]

Don't even try to convince me that Tyson Jost - whose "improved a ton over the past season" yet scored at a lower rate this season than last - is a decent #3C. He's nowhere close to that. He's a 4th line centre through and through.

I'd rather protect the guy that skates faster, hits harder and looks like he can play a legitimate 4th line role for this team than the guy that can't win a faceoff when it matters, gets pushed around and can't skate with this club.

Lol ok, I guess I just IMAGINED the kid who's been working his butt off for years - actually be able to successfully center a line with Nichushkin and Donskoi for a good stretch of 10-12 games around the 35 Game mark and then again with Nuke and Saad a bit later on - where he almost unanimously completely changed the minds of almost all of the haters on HFboards who could finally admit that he seemed to have turned the corner.

I guess I dreamed it? I get that you're pissed - I am too and his lack of finish in these playoffs hurt our team - I'll certainly give you that but he also put himself in position to have those chances which can't be said for a lot of the guys on the roster.

Added -> oh and the reason he scored at a lower rate this season than last is because he was used as a 4th line winger for than half the season. When he was put in a position to succeed, he did well as he scored 14 points in his last 28 games.

Meanwhile LOC has looked good at times as a frikkin' call-up as many guys do over 5 to 10 game stretches when they are looking at trying to earn a 1-way contract. What happens when we're at Game #67 and LOC has 6 goals and 1 assist on the season and he's just not hitting like he did at the beginning of the season for whatever reason?

The Avs aren't protecting this guy over Jost. He'd end up a Kraken so fast it would make your head spin and then we'd all be wondering WTF -> how come Jost is playing like William Karlsson for another team?? Why did we have to protect a borderline 4th liner instead?

 

[dahrougem2]

Lol ok, I guess I just IMAGINED the kid who's been working his butt off for years - actually be able to successfully center a line with Nichushkin and Donskoi for a good stretch of 10-12 games around the 35 Game mark and then again with Nuke and Saad a bit later on - where he almost unanimously completely changed the minds of almost all of the haters on HFboards who could finally admit that he seemed to have turned the corner.

I guess I dreamed it? I get that you're pissed - I am too and his lack of finish in these playoffs hurt our team - I'll certainly give you that but he also put himself in position to have those chances which can't be said for a lot of the guys on the roster.

Added -> oh and the reason he scored at a lower rate this season than last is because he was used as a 4th line winger for than half the season. When he was put in a position to succeed, he did well as he scored 14 points in his last 28 games.

Meanwhile LOC has looked good at times as a frikkin' call-up as many guys do over 5 to 10 game stretches when they are looking at trying to earn a 1-way contract. What happens when we're at Game #67 and LOC has 6 goals and 1 assist on the season and he's just not hitting like he did at the beginning of the season for whatever reason?

The Avs aren't protecting this guy over Jost. He'd end up a Kraken so fast it would make your head spin and then we'd all be wondering WTF -> how come Jost is playing like William Karlsson for another team?? Why did we have to protect a borderline 4th liner instead?

We're simply watching different players, then. Tyson Jost is a 4th line centre through and through. He works his tail off, nobody will question that. But he's not fast enough, not strong enough, not good enough on faceoffs and not offensive enough to play 3rd line centre. Him as the 3rd line centre would give us one of the weakest 3rd line centres in the entire league. That is not good enough to win.

It's 4th line or gtfo for me with Jost.

And you really think he'd be playing like William Karlsson? A guy that is better in literally every way than Jost?

 

[Nihiliste]

This is going to be the talk of the summer. The most extreme of the new school got beat by old school hockey. Toronto got dumped. Carolina was brushed off.

Right. The new school hockey works in the regular season because of reduced obstruction and interference. If the plan is to just always revert to not enforcing those rules in the playoffs, building a modern roster for regular season rules is just self sabotage

 

[Bender]

We're simply watching different players, then. Tyson Jost is a 4th line centre through and through. He works his tail off, nobody will question that. But he's not fast enough, not strong enough, not good enough on faceoffs and not offensive enough to play 3rd line centre. Him as the 3rd line centre would give us one of the weakest 3rd line centres in the entire league. That is not good enough to win.

It's 4th line or gtfo for me with Jost.

And you really think he'd be playing like William Karlsson? A guy that is better in literally every way than Jost?

It was more just an example but William Karlsson is 28 years old now and 5 years ago, he didn't look like a player who would be breaking through as a solid, 2nd line center did he? I don't think CBJ lets him go to Vegas if that's the case. Karlsson was a good young player who needed a chance to make his mark and he made the most of his opportunity once he got to Vegas.

Everyone and their grandmother thought that Sam Bennett was hopeless in terms of offensive production too, remember that?? He goes to Florida - it's a great fit and he explodes. This stuff happens and to systematically rule it out is wrong.

 

[dahrougem2]

It was more just an example but William Karlsson is 28 years old now and 5 years ago, he didn't look like a player who would be breaking through as a solid, 2nd line center did he? I don't think CBJ lets him go to Vegas if that's the case. Karlsson was a good young player who needed a chance to make his mark and he made the most of his opportunity once he got to Vegas.

Everyone and their grandmother thought that Sam Bennett was hopeless in terms of offensive production too, remember that?? He goes to Florida - it's a great fit and he explodes. This stuff happens and to systematically rule it out is wrong.

Ok, but we have seen Jost tried in a top-six role several times throughout his career and it did not work. I don't think it's going to magically click for him if he gets traded somewhere else or was given top-six minutes here.

Everyone and their mothers could see Sam Bennett being misused based on his playoff performances every single year for Calgary and then the 3-4 games he'd get on Calgary's top line, then go back to the 4th line.

All in all, we're going to agree to disagree. We simply view this player differently. I see a 4th line centre that is slower than most forwards in today's game and too small/weak to make up for that lack of speed. Hell of a hard worker, willing to kill penalties and adapt to fill a role but not a guy I want anywhere higher than the 4th line.

 

[Avs]

This is going to be the talk of the summer. The most extreme of the new school got beat by old school hockey. Toronto got dumped. Carolina was brushed off.

Right. The new school hockey works in the regular season because of reduced obstruction and interference. If the plan is to just always revert to not enforcing those rules in the playoffs, building a modern roster for regular season rules is just self sabotage

Yep. Made me think of this tweet I saw yesterday.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Pietrangelo and Theodore massively outplayed Makar/Girard/Toews. For all the talk of the modern NHL, it’s still more or less the old school game in the playoffs

I thought Toews and Makar pulled themselves together towards the end there. It honestly wouldn't have mattered if the defensemen were switched. The problem was Bednar's inability to adjust to Vegas' adjusted scheme.

I pointed this out before, but the forwards in the defensive zone are basically playing man and waiting for the defensemen to gain control of the puck and break it out to them. That works well against slower teams, or teams like the Blues who are just so focused on being "physical". Vegas was able to identify how passive the Avs forwards are on D and sent three men in to forecheck the D. Their goal wasn't to hammer the defensemen, it was to pressure, and outman the defender until they gave the puck up.

When the forwards did backcheck more aggressively, it was typically in scrambled plays. It wasn't a smart, thought out strategy, but rather people getting lost in their positioning and rushing around like chickens with their heads cut off. Compare that to Vegas who boxed the Avs out defensively, with a focus on blocking shooting lanes. They let the Avs have the boards for the most part, but didn't let them have the center of the ice.

Again, Vegas didn't win this series because they are a big, mean team. They won because they were a team, every shift was similar pressure, it was a similar dedication defensively. The Avs had significant drop offs depending on what line was out there, and that showed. The Jost line tended to forecheck pretty aggressively. The 4th line could occasionally get pressure. The 1st line was completely shutdown. The JTC line may as well have just handed the puck to Vegas.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Pietrangelo and Theodore massively outplayed Makar/Girard/Toews. For all the talk of the modern NHL, it’s still more or less the old school game in the playoffs

Not at all.

The bolded was the only one outplayed by Theadore/Pietrangelo.

Makar/Toews we’re on a completely different level than Girard. People need to stop looping Girard in with Toews and Makar. He wasn’t even close to as good in the playoffs. He was legitimately bad and the other two were good.

 

[chet1926]

So I know its not reason we lost, but anyone else find it absolutely absurd that the last real penalty (not an over the glass which they are forced to call) they called on Vegas was in the 2nd period of game 4, a matching minor for roughing.

You have to go back to period 1 of game 4 to get a true penalty on Vegas, which they quickly negated with a BS call on Makar 20 seconds into the PP.

We basically went 2 and half games with the refs not calling a single true infraction on Vegas. That's pathetic and inexcusable by the refs. There is no way a team as physical as Vegas didn't take one penalty in 2 and half games other than over the glass which is self inflicted, the league should be torched for this. Not sure why this isn't a bigger topic. It's simply appalling.

 

[kchan9]

Such pieces of shit

 

[AegonLeConqueror]

So I know its not reason we lost, but anyone else find it absolutely absurd that the last real penalty (not an over the glass which they are forced to call) they called on Vegas was in the 2nd period of game 4, a matching minor for roughing.

You have to go back to period 1 of game 4 to get a true penalty on Vegas, which they quickly negated with a BS call on Makar 20 seconds into the PP.

We basically went 2 and half games with the refs not calling a single true infraction on Vegas. That's pathetic and inexcusable by the refs. There is no way a team as physical as Vegas didn't take one penalty in 2 and half games other than over the glass which is self inflicted, the league should be torched for this. Not sure why this isn't a bigger topic. It's simply appalling.

I agree. It's weird too because we see penalties like Makar's interference on the PP but Vegas routinely set picks on our players. Even the game-tying Marchessault goal in game 5 was the result of Girard getting interfered with in front of the net.

 

[Iceberg]

Not at all.

The bolded was the only one outplayed by Theadore/Pietrangelo.

Makar/Toews we’re on a completely different level than Girard. People need to stop looping Girard in with Toews and Makar. He wasn’t even close to as good in the playoffs. He was legitimately bad and the other two were good.

Our entire D was outplayed by their D, not even close.