Post-Game Talk: Game 6: Coincidence? I think not.

[BobbyJet]

Many of these posts are evidence of why hockey fans of almost every other team mockingly call Toews 'Mr Intangibles'

For me, it's very simple. I expect the highest paid player in the league to score goals and rack up points. Goal differential is fine. Corsi is fine

For $10.5, I expect points, specifically goals.

Crazy though I know.

For me, it's even simpler. If the team is scoring goals and winning, individual stats of our core players are irrelevant. Your beefs are pretty much all about lack of offense, yet Hawks lead the entire NHL in goals scored with 23. Winning is the name of the game and though they contribute in completely different ways, Kane/Toews are a very large part of that.

They are overpaid but it's too late to change that.

 

[projexns]

Point-production versus goal-differential.

Point-production is lopsided in Kane's favour:

POINT-PRODUCTION 2016-17
[table="head;width=500]PLAYER|GP|G|A|PTS|+/-||
Kane|6|1|6|7|+4|
Toews|6|0|2|2|+2|

[/TABLE]


Goal-differential, not so much:

5-ON-5 AND POWER-PLAY GOAL DIFFERENTIAL 2016-17
[table="head;width=500]PLAYER|5-ON-5 GF|5-ON-5 GA|PP GF|PP GA|TOT GF|TOT GA|NET DIFF.||
Kane|5|1|2|0|7|1|+6|
Toews|5|3|3|0|8|3|+5|

[/TABLE]

There's five guys on the ice and only three are going to get points.
Kane's artistry in creating goals is of course very visible. Toews does the grunt work that results in goals, but doesn't show up on the stat-sheet.

I don't know if I can still imbed the goals from NHL.com so I have to youtube.

50 seconds in you see Seabrook's power-play goal. Toews wins the draw, goes to the front of the net and completely screens the goalie.

The face-off he won went to Kane to Keith to Seabs for the shot so Toews gets no assist, but he was instrumental to that goal. If the puck hit is shinpad on the way in, the points crowd would be satisfied, but to me it makes no difference.

Immediately after this comes the Panik goal. It starts with Toews winning a defensive zone face-off, it goes D-to-D-to Panik and he scores. There are no 3rd assists, but that play starts with the face-off win by Toews.





The night before in Nashville, Hjalmarsson's goal has Toews going to the dirty area and screening the goalie. Starts at 1:16 of the video. Again Toews is "tangibly" contributing to a goal although it doesn't appear on the stat-sheet:



This team is going to look pretty good 20 games in once the kids get acclimated and IF Kitchen can fix the PK (not so confident in this coach.)

 

[Robsker]

Toews has taken the second most shots on the team, 3 less than Kane. He's shooting more than he did last year, and eventually they will start going in. He's carrying a line with a near league minimum guy and a rookie, and that line has not been a disaster. Toews' Corsi numbers are 7-10 points higher than his linemates.

So it looks like the issue is Toews' shots aren't hitting twine. Once that happens, do you start saying he's playing to his cap hit, or are there other parts of his game you're also unhappy with?

I am not unhappy at all with his play now. he is still quite good. What I am saying is that his overall play is not at his pay level (not now... or most of last year). But to your point, if those shots start going in... that will help a great deal. And when he, in addition, returns to the type of player who when it is needed most he is there and gets it done. What has made him the player that warranted his pay (and his pay is warranted based on how he played in 2110 - 2014) is that he as money when it mattered. What we saw then - a lot - was when the Hawks desperately needed a goal he was there (scoring or setting up). that sanse of "now is the time we need it" and Toews steps up and it is done. That is not who he has been of late. Mr. clutch from 2010 -2014 deserved the big contract he now enjoys --- but of late, Mr. Clutch is not so much Mr. Clutch.

So... it is not just scoring... or even primarily scoring. It is just that the clutch way in which this team used to come up big when needed is no more. We used to ride Toews coattails... that is, largely, missing.

Still an excellent very, very good player. But to continue to warrant that pay... he needs to carry the team and be its confidence. His currently not doing that... nor has he for a while now (to the degree he used to or in proportion to that salary). I contend that Toews is the Hawks.. the team goes, ultimately, as far as Toews takes them.

We need him to step up.

 

[BobbyJet]

I am not unhappy at all with his play now. he is still quite good. What I am saying is that his overall play is not at his pay level (not now... or most of last year). But to your point, if those shots start going in... that will help a great deal. And when he, in addition, returns to the type of player who when it is needed most he is there and gets it done. What has made him the player that warranted his pay (and his pay is warranted based on how he played in 2110 - 2014) is that he as money when it mattered. What we saw then - a lot - was when the Hawks desperately needed a goal he was there (scoring or setting up). that sanse of "now is the time we need it" and Toews steps up and it is done. That is not who he has been of late. Mr. clutch from 2010 -2014 deserved the big contract he now enjoys --- but of late, Mr. Clutch is not so much Mr. Clutch.

So... it is not just scoring... or even primarily scoring. It is just that the clutch way in which this team used to come up big when needed is no more. We used to ride Toews coattails... that is, largely, missing.

Still an excellent very, very good player. But to continue to warrant that pay... he needs to carry the team and be its confidence. His currently not doing that... nor has he for a while now (to the degree he used to or in proportion to that salary). I contend that Toews is the Hawks.. the team goes, ultimately, as far as Toews takes them.

We need him to step up.

It's near impossible to warrant that pay. Perhaps McDavid will one day.

 

[BobbyJet]

Point-production versus goal-differential.

Point-production is lopsided in Kane's favour:

POINT-PRODUCTION 2016-17
[table="head;width=500]PLAYER|GP|G|A|PTS|+/-||
Kane|6|1|6|7|+4|
Toews|6|0|2|2|+2|

[/TABLE]


Goal-differential, not so much:

5-ON-5 AND POWER-PLAY GOAL DIFFERENTIAL 2016-17
[table="head;width=500]PLAYER|5-ON-5 GF|5-ON-5 GA|PP GF|PP GA|TOT GF|TOT GA|NET DIFF.||
Kane|5|1|2|0|7|1|+6|
Toews|5|3|3|0|8|3|+5|

[/TABLE]

There's five guys on the ice and only three are going to get points.
Kane's artistry in creating goals is of course very visible. Toews does the grunt work that results in goals, but doesn't show up on the stat-sheet.

I don't know if I can still imbed the goals from NHL.com so I have to youtube.

50 seconds in you see Seabrook's power-play goal. Toews wins the draw, goes to the front of the net and completely screens the goalie.

The face-off he won went to Kane to Keith to Seabs for the shot so Toews gets no assist, but he was instrumental to that goal. If the puck hit is shinpad on the way in, the points crowd would be satisfied, but to me it makes no difference.

Immediately after this comes the Panik goal. It starts with Toews winning a defensive zone face-off, it goes D-to-D-to Panik and he scores. There are no 3rd assists, but that play starts with the face-off win by Toews.





The night before in Nashville, Hjalmarsson's goal has Toews going to the dirty area and screening the goalie. Starts at 1:16 of the video. Again Toews is "tangibly" contributing to a goal although it doesn't appear on the stat-sheet:



This team is going to look pretty good 20 games in once the kids get acclimated and IF Kitchen can fix the PK (not so confident in this coach.)

Good post. A perfect example of the eye test beating any kind of stats one tries to apply. I bet if Toews was asked about his play this year he would mention the lack of goals but would not be disappointed (the PK excepted of course).

 

[Robsker]

Good post.



It's near impossible to warrant that pay for any player. Perhaps McDavid one day may change that.

I agree that it is difficult. But Toews did do that for a good many years --- that is, he played in 2010-2014 like a guy who should warrant the top pay in the league his next contract. Expecting more of that is asking much. So I do not harp overly on Toews.

The thing is, I am somewhat baffled. he should be entering his prime (age wise). That is why I think a resurgence is coming. Hopefully it will arrive during the playoffs!

 

[projexns]

I agree that it is difficult. But Toews did do that for a good many years --- that is, he played in 2010-2014 like a guy who should warrant the top pay in the league his next contract. Expecting more of that is asking much. So I do not harp overly on Toews.

The thing is, I am somewhat baffled. he should be entering his prime (age wise). That is why I think a resurgence is coming. Hopefully it will arrive during the playoffs!

There is some cause for concern. His legs look better than last year.

His hands......okay, there might be some bad puck luck involved here. Trailing Columbus 3-1 they stacked the top line and Toews had a point-blank rebound that he shot wide.....moments later Panik one-hops a shot into the net to make it 3-2. When you're hot you're hot.

The 4-on-3 PP against the Leafs in OT, Kane passed it to him down low and he made the hard push from backhand-to-forehand.......and the puck rolled off his stick. There have been a couple of other point-blank chances that I thought for sure were going in, and he missed. He's lost pucks in the neutral zone with no pressure, he just mishandles it.

He gets a pass from me for last year, but this year I'm expecting better......

 

[Robsker]

There is some cause for concern. His legs look better than last year.

His hands......okay, there might be some bad puck luck involved here. Trailing Columbus 3-1 they stacked the top line and Toews had a point-blank rebound that he shot wide.....moments later Panik one-hops a shot into the net to make it 3-2. When you're hot you're hot.

The 4-on-3 PP against the Leafs in OT, Kane passed it to him down low and he made the hard push from backhand-to-forehand.......and the puck rolled off his stick. There have been a couple of other point-blank chances that I thought for sure were going in, and he missed. He's lost pucks in the neutral zone with no pressure, he just mishandles it.

He gets a pass from me for last year, but this year I'm expecting better......

Agreed. Again not harping on him in a total play sort of way -- he has been good (just not himself). His hands have been an issue. He loses the puck in neutral ice (or upon zone entry) an unusually high % of the time (relative to Toews of old). So it is not just not scoring -- and not being the clutch guy we have been accustomed to... there have been hands issues (and finish issues) and sort of disappearing (relatively speaking) when the need is highest (that used to be his time to show up). Still glad we have him. Still impressed overall... just not the Mr. Clutch of old. And we need that again. Once more--- the Hawks, ultimately, go only so far as Toews goes.