Post-Game Talk: Game 6: Canadiens 4, Canucks 1 - Wanted: Secondary Scoring, no experience required

[Tiranis]

This team has one excellent offensive line in the Sedins and whomever plays with them, followed by two third lines and a terrible fourth line.

Ok...

We need the 2nd line to provide contrast to the Sedins... right now there's absolutely nothing coming from them. And while it's encouraging to see the Sedins get points like this... it's really discouraging to know that with 1 guy out in the top 6 (Burrows) we're reduced to almost being a bottom-feeder offensively and scrambling to get some Frankenstein lines together.

No, that's not from this thread. This is from 10-11, after the game against Minnesota.

 

[John Bender*]

Anyway, not too worried about the result or the start. They're 3-3 and dominated the game last night until Hamhuis' brainfart which pretty clearly deflated the whole team. **** happens. It's an 82 game season. Even though it was a big loss in the end, I thought the game was far more entertaining through 2 periods than most of the ones from last season.

Does nobody remember these 6 games:

LAK 2 - VAN 1
FLA 1 - VAN 2
VAN 3 - ANA 4
VAN 1 - LAK 4
CAR 1 - VAN 5
VAN 2 - MIN 6

That's our start in 10-11.

Finally a sane and rational post.

 

[Freakshow]

Anyway, not too worried about the result or the start. They're 3-3 and dominated the game last night until Hamhuis' brainfart which pretty clearly deflated the whole team. **** happens. It's an 82 game season. Even though it was a big loss in the end, I thought the game was far more entertaining through 2 periods than most of the ones from last season.

Does nobody remember these 6 games:

LAK 2 - VAN 1
FLA 1 - VAN 2
VAN 3 - ANA 4
VAN 1 - LAK 4
CAR 1 - VAN 5
VAN 2 - MIN 6

That's our start in 10-11.

This is NOT the 2010/11 team. Why does everyone keep referencing that year? As it stands the team is a shadow of it's former self, they lack the depth that team had and they're all three years older now.

 

[RealGudbranson]

I don't understand all the chicken-littling about this game.

I understand that people are concerned about the Canuck's forwards lack of offensive creativity, but they absolutely dominated possession for the first two periods. Price simply stood on his head, and the Hamhuis... I'm not sure what he was doing with his head. Call me 15 if we are 3-6 games under .500, and then I will start being concerned.

Unlike last year, the team needs to take things more seriously; but here on this board, it's the opposite. Relax, it's just another loss.

 

[Tiranis]

This is NOT the 2010/11 team. Why does everyone keep referencing that year? As it stands the team is a shadow of it's former self, they lack the depth that team had and they're all three years older now.

Did you read the post above? People were saying the same things in 10-11. Hell, that quote I posted could be inserted anywhere in this thread and nobody would look twice.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Did you read the post above? People were saying the same things in 10-11. Hell, that quote I posted could be inserted anywhere in this thread and nobody would look twice.

So because people were proven wrong then means they will be proven wrong again?

 

[Cogburn]

I don't know about lacking offence when it comes to an 82 game schedule, but we were doing fine until that own goal. Our boys weren't all over the Habs, but they were applying pressure, and there wasn't a sense of panic. After the own goal, I think our guys went from medium excitement/energy to "why bother".

You know which teams we've had trouble scoring against so far? San Jose (top of the pile) and one game against Montreal.

We have 17 goals for, which is good for middle of the pack at worst, and 20 goals against, good for bottom 5 I think.

WE DON'T NEED OFFENCE, WE NEED GOALTENDING AND DEFENCE!!!

 

[Tiranis]

So because people were proven wrong then means they will be proven wrong again?

No, it means that 6 games into the season when the team is 3-3, dominated possession in their latest game, is learning a new system, missing a key Top 6 player, missing their #1 D, etc. is probably a bad time to judge how the rest of the season will go.

 

[Freakshow]

Did you read the post above? People were saying the same things in 10-11. Hell, that quote I posted could be inserted anywhere in this thread and nobody would look twice.

It doesn't take a genius to see this is not by any comparison an equal team to the one of the best Canucks teams ever. I know it's early in the season, but I can see the writing on the wall. This is a slightly above average team as it stands, something needs to change!

Yes they were the better team for two periods last night, but, when it mattered most, in the third. They folded like a cheap tent, that fluke goal deflated them and they were done. They had zero shots 11 minutes into the third period, when they needed to keep the pressure on. The Sedins provided ALL the offence once again.

I'll keep watching, but I suspect that I'll be saying I told you so at the 20 game mark. If I wrong, perfect...but I don't think I will be.

 

[Tiranis]

It doesn't take a genius to see this is not by any comparison an equal team to the one of the best Canucks teams ever. I know it's early in the season, but I can see the writing on the wall. This is a slightly above average team as it stands, something needs to change!

Yeah, in hindsight. If it didn't take a genius then those posts wouldn't have happened in 10-11 either. People would've realized that the team was too good to keep sucking. They didn't.

It's funny that you don't understand how your perception of that team is coloured by their results during that season.

I'll keep watching, but I suspect that I'll be saying I told you so at the 20 game mark. If I wrong, perfect...but I don't think I will be.

Yeah, it's a great position to be in. Can't lose, can you?

 

[J Canuck]

The Canucks weren't really out of this game, except for Hamhuis and some embarrassingly rotten luck. Lu also seemed tense or nervous right from the start, hope he's not sore about how it all went down come Tuesday. Garrison and Santorelli were bright spots again, Higgins has to score eventually, Booth and Kesler were more invisible than Dalpe. This is all fixable and we're still with the pack on the first lap of a long race.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Habs fan coming in peace.

Just wanted to say good, well matched game (Shots/Corsi/Fenwick and eye test) marred by the unluckiest bounce I've ever seen. The Sedin's are still elite and I thought Hansen and Santorelli also played really well. Garrison is a beast from the point and Tanev and Bieksa looked great as well.

Best of luck and I hope you guys can find some offensive depth, always like cheering for Vancouver out West.

 

[opendoor]

So because people were proven wrong then means they will be proven wrong again?

You'd think if people were proven wrong every single year with the team's slow starts, they'd at least have the intelligence to have a bit of patience and hold off on predicting the next 76 games based on the first 6. Since 2008 the Canucks have a 22-20-3 record in October. Is anyone seriously surprised that 6 games in they're hovering around .500 while learning a new system? I know I'm not.

The Canucks might have a bad season and miss the playoffs, but nothing can be determined 2 weeks into the season.

 

[The Optimist]

You'd think if people were proven wrong every single year with the team's slow starts, they'd at least have the intelligence to have a bit of patience and hold off on predicting the next 76 games based on the first 6.

You could apply the same logic to player development. Every year people complain that players like Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, etc. aren't developing despite saying the same thing previously about Sedins, Kesler, Hansen, etc.

It seems to me that stupidity and lack of patience go hand in hand.

 

[Grumbler]

God I am just sick of it. Why can't this team ever play 60 minutes of hockey. Seriously the ****s (esp Bieksa) on this team needs to go.

There is no sense of accountability or urgency at any point in any game for this team.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Welp, Sam Reinhart sure looks good...

I'd rather suck next year for a shot at McDavid, but I can almost guarantee we'd lose the lottery even if we finished dead last.

As it stands, we'll never be bad enough for a top pick barring injuries but this team is going nowhere this year. That ****ing middle ground...

 

[Tiranis]

You'd think if people were proven wrong every single year with the team's slow starts, they'd at least have the intelligence to have a bit of patience and hold off on predicting the next 76 games based on the first 6. Since 2008 the Canucks have a 22-20-3 record in October. Is anyone seriously surprised that 6 games in they're hovering around .500 while learning a new system? I know I'm not.

The Canucks might have a bad season and miss the playoffs, but nothing can be determined 2 weeks into the season.

Not to mention the fact that our problem has been GA not GF and our below average team Sh% (which will go up). Yet everyone is focused on our offence. What a strange world.

 

[NuxFan09]

You'd think if people were proven wrong every single year with the team's slow starts, they'd at least have the intelligence to have a bit of patience and hold off on predicting the next 76 games based on the first 6. Since 2008 the Canucks have a 22-20-3 record in October. Is anyone seriously surprised that 6 games in they're hovering around .500 while learning a new system? I know I'm not.

The Canucks might have a bad season and miss the playoffs, but nothing can be determined 2 weeks into the season.

My point is: what's going to get better once we're well underway in the season? I honestly don't think it's a matter of how the team is playing, it's that they simply aren't that good. They're not going to magically be a deeper team. The only way the team gets better is if Luongo goes into beast mode and masks the offensive troubles.

You "it's way too early" folks need to understand something. It's never too early or too late to judge a team when they have very real, practical issues. Again, I don't actually think they're playing all that bad. This is far from one of those bad October starts. Kesler is MIA, there's no depth and we have a goaltender who, understandably, still isn't sure if he wants to be here and who we probably won't see play much better than he is now.

Before anyone accuses me of overreacting or panicking: I'm actually quite fine with this. It's about accepting the stage this team is at.

 

[Tiranis]

Kesler is MIA, there's no depth

So you mean the same things people said in 10-11 as I already illustrated above?

 

[NuxFan09]

Not to mention the fact that our problem has been GA not GF and our below average team Sh% (which will go up). Yet everyone is focused on our offence. What a strange world.

We all know what happens to the offense once the team gets closer to and in to the playoffs.

The Sedins have been great to start this season, no question there, and the team has gotten great production out of Santorelli and Garrison. What happens when Santorelli inevitably slows down? I have already said I think Garrison is going to have a big year, but he can't BE the secondary offense. What we're left with is a team who is again relying on the Sedins to do the scoring and when they aren't doing the scoring, a team who relies on Luongo to save the day.

 

[NuxFan09]

So you mean the same things people said in 10-11 as I already illustrated above?

I don't remember those things being said at all in 10-11. We probably heard the usual grumbling and moaning about the slow October start but it seems to me everyone knew the offense was okay. That, and we all knew the team had the best goaltending in the league.

No way can you compare this year and that year. Were there still worries about the team? Maybe, but there were several assurances about the team as well, offense being one of them.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I don't know about lacking offence when it comes to an 82 game schedule, but we were doing fine until that own goal. Our boys weren't all over the Habs, but they were applying pressure, and there wasn't a sense of panic. After the own goal, I think our guys went from medium excitement/energy to "why bother".

You know which teams we've had trouble scoring against so far? San Jose (top of the pile) and one game against Montreal.

We have 17 goals for, which is good for middle of the pack at worst, and 20 goals against, good for bottom 5 I think.

WE DON'T NEED OFFENCE, WE NEED GOALTENDING AND DEFENCE!!!

11 of those goals came against 2 very bad defensive teams. Our goaltending and defence aren't that bad.

 

[Tiranis]

I don't remember those things being said at all in 10-11. We probably heard the usual grumbling and moaning about the slow October start but it seems to me everyone knew the offense was okay. That, and we all knew the team had the best goaltending in the league.

Wow, are you serious? Here are the quotes six games into that season after a 6-1 loss and a 2-3-1 start:

We need the 2nd line to provide contrast to the Sedins... right now there's absolutely nothing coming from them. And while it's encouraging to see the Sedins get points like this... it's really discouraging to know that with 1 guy out in the top 6 (Burrows) we're reduced to almost being a bottom-feeder offensively and scrambling to get some Frankenstein lines together.

What I still can't believe is that Daniel is tied for 2nd in the NHL in goals and Hank leads the NHL in assists, despite this team's horrid play in general and inability to score. Yeah, these guys are carrying the team.

Hey, that one above is by you even.

Peter Schaefer does not belong on the second line. Do any of the 4th line forwards tonight belong in the NHL?

our secondary scoring is awful...combining for 4 goals in now 6 games (three were in one night)

2) second line production - i'm amazed at the leniency and excuses fans are giving ryan kesler at the moment...the guy has 2 goals in his last 18 games in a canuck uniform and is barely creating quality scoring chances anymore...it doesn't help that his linemates are not top-6 forwards at the moment, but no team can win in the nhl if they only get production from their top line

The bottom-6 is offensively null and void, and the 2nd line is having a mighty struggle getting going with so much more of the offensive focus on them...and of coruse tonight's baffling Schaefer in for Tambellini substitution helped absolutely nothing. And then Rypien completely lost it.

The only reason people weren't even more critical is because back then the goal was to win the division and hopefully get to the 3rd round of the playoffs. Nobody expected a President's Trophy team or a SCF team. Now the goal is to win the Cup.

 

[NuxFan09]

Wow, are you serious? Here are the quotes six games into that season after a 6-1 loss and a 2-3-1 start:





Hey, that one above is by you even.

Like I said, I didn't remember much being said about it, but your dug up some examples so kudos to you. Thing is, like I said, you can't compare that season and this one. I just don't think the offense will round into form like it did that season.

Let's say the Sedins match their point totals from that season (104 for Daniel, 94 for Henrik) and Edler matches Ehrhoff's 50 points from the blueline. Kesler scored 41 goals and 73 points. We all know he's not going to come close to matching that. They also had a 50 point 2nd line player in Samuelsson. Who is going to match that?

I don't know you get off making the comparison. The Canucks were at the peak of their powers that year.

 

[Tiranis]

Like I said, I didn't remember much being said about it, but your dug up some examples so kudos to you. Thing is, like I said, you can't compare that season and this one. I just don't think the offense will round into form like it did that season.

Let's say the Sedins match their point totals from that season (104 for Daniel, 94 for Henrik) and Edler matches Ehrhoff's 50 points from the blueline. Kesler scored 41 goals and 73 points. We all know he's not going to come close to matching that. They also had a 50 point 2nd line player in Samuelsson. Who is going to match that?

I don't know you get off making the comparison. The Canucks were at the peak of their powers that year.

Yeah and you can say that in hindsight. Had you predicted the season outcome 6 games into 10-11, you would be saying much the same things. As I illustrated above, people thought we had no secondary scoring and Kesler had 1 goal 6 games into the year. Do you really think that you would've predicted 40 goals based on 1 goal in 6 games? Hell, people were saying it was a mistake having him on the #1 PP unit.

I'm not saying those same things will happen again. I'm saying it's impossible to look at our current play and predict anything. What I do know is that Higgins isn't going to keep shooting at 0% while on pace for 280 shots and Kesler won't keep shooting at 5% while on pace for 250 shots.