GDT: Game 58: Dallas Stars @ San Jose Sharks, 7:30pm

[Barrie22]

Why would he have to change his style of play? The whole philosophy of Sharks goaltending coaching has always been to let the guy stop the puck the way he does it and refine the mechanics of his style and Wayne Thomas has been great.

Whether you meant it or not, it sounds like you think reactionary goalies don't have a place in the NHL. Stalock is a very active goaltender in the crease. He's got happy feet and that's not a bad thing. And as far as I can see, he just needs to calm down during scrambles.

I don't think they have long shelf lives, that is for sure. And they are basically just the 1 hit wonder type of goalies. (That can produce sometimes 1 or 2 good years in the nhl and then they fall back down to earth hard).

The game i seen live with stalock (way to long ago to count as now), but if that game is any indication of what he is still like it is definately bad. But i kind of getting the feeling he has kind of calmed his reactionary motions down a little.

In the game i seen, he would litterally move to the other side of the net on a point shots that would just miss the net on the side of the net he just left open.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Once teams fully figure out that stalock is a reactionary goalie he is going to be solved pretty quick and pretty hard.

Is stalocks style of play fixable? Maybe, but then again he might just can't figure out the better way of playing that uses less energy and makes life in net a whole lot easier.

Niemi's problems that he has this year, are fixable and easily fixable. Considering his only problem that has been with niemi his entire career has been his rebound control. The other issues like the 5hole and the bad reading of the point shots are all new issues that showed up this year.

I put my money on niemi figuring out his issues before stalock learns to chamge his entire style of play.

This is a pretty vague assumption. All goalies are reactionary in reality. Maybe you meant something else entirely, I don't know. There's nothing that needs to be fixed with Stalock's game right now and his athleticism will always put him in position to make the save. You'll have to go into detail what issues you're trying to point out that need fixing. I don't think he has to worry too much about his energy considering his age and his fitness level. He certainly doesn't look tired in net.

Puck reading has always been an issue for Niemi. That didn't just pop up this year. He got better at it for a time and dropped back to the level he was at when he first came here. And rebound control is also not his only issue. Up high on either side has been an issue for him. His hunch when he's in the butterfly is an issue where he opens up the top of the net from a bad angle. How he handles traffic in front is an issue that sort of leads into his reading pucks issue.

 

[Barrie22]

This is a pretty vague assumption. All goalies are reactionary in reality. Maybe you meant something else entirely, I don't know. There's nothing that needs to be fixed with Stalock's game right now and his athleticism will always put him in position to make the save. You'll have to go into detail what issues you're trying to point out that need fixing. I don't think he has to worry too much about his energy considering his age and his fitness level. He certainly doesn't look tired in net.

Puck reading has always been an issue for Niemi. That didn't just pop up this year. He got better at it for a time and dropped back to the level he was at when he first came here. And rebound control is also not his only issue. Up high on either side has been an issue for him. His hunch when he's in the butterfly is an issue where he opens up the top of the net from a bad angle. How he handles traffic in front is an issue that sort of leads into his reading pucks issue.

I just don't know how to explain it, with stalock i just do not get this feeling that he can be anything more then a solid back up goalie.

With niemi before this season, even in his chicago season and 1st couple seasons with san jose. I always felt he was the best 1st save goalie in the league. Meaning that if that 1st shot does not make some kind of magic seeing eye shot, niemi was going to save it. Where that rebound went was any bodys guess (usually not the right choice for the sharks players, but still that 1st shot was stopped), then last season it seemed that the sharks finally figured out how to react to those rebounds and were taking away those 2nd and 3rd shots against.

This year is a whole different story though with niemi, shots that he usually made look like routine saves are going into the net every time.

 

[OrrNumber4]

A side note. As much as I like Randy and Drew, I want to barf when I hear their myriad of excuses for why someone or something else other than this goaltender is responsible for goals against.

Even if Niemi is allowing goals that "aren't his fault"...a SC-winning goaltender needs to, with high frequency, make saves he "has no business making".

He needs to bail out his team more than they bail him out. He needs to come through in clutch moments; he needs to find ways to win. Simply, he needs to give his defense the confidence that they can screw up and not have it be the end of the world.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I believe you're referring to their efficiency in movements to which I would definitely side with Niemi over Stalock on right now. However, some of that is just inexperience at this level for Stalock and some of that is his personality. I'm sure he'd calm down and refine that aspect if he was to be the starter. I don't see that as being an issue given where he's at right now.

 

[hockeyball]

Even if Niemi is allowing goals that "aren't his fault"...a SC-winning goaltender needs to, with high frequency, make saves he "has no business making".

He needs to bail out his team more than they bail him out. He needs to come through in clutch moments; he needs to find ways to win. Simply, he needs to give his defense the confidence that they can screw up and not have it be the end of the world.

This is exactly right. That's why the old 'start from the goal out' adage. If the team lacks confidence in the goalie then they are going to do stupid things attempting to cover for him. Part of why the Sharks are playing better in front of Stalock right now is because they have a little bit more confidence in him at the moment. Niemi has been average, or below average, and the guys don't trust him. Stalock has been good to great, but they don't know him that well yet. Neither situation is ideal, obviously.

Stalock needs to play more games, and play well consistently, so the guys can get comfortable playing in front of him. They will play better the more confidence they have in their goalie (and their defense, and each other, etc). It starts with the goalie.

This is a bigger problem than we are making it out to be. Niemi has really not been good consistently at all this season. I don't know if he's injured or what, but its clearly effecting the team. Either he needs to start playing better immediately, Stalock needs to take over as #1 or the Sharks are going to be forced to make a trade for a goalie the team can trust. They don't have the defense to cover for an 'iffy' goalie, and their system is not designed to do that. It's too late in the season to change that realistically. Unless Niemi turns it around they should really look to move him in the off-season.

 

[Led Zappa]

This is exactly right. That's why the old 'start from the goal out' adage. If the team lacks confidence in the goalie then they are going to do stupid things attempting to cover for him. Part of why the Sharks are playing better in front of Stalock right now is because they have a little bit more confidence in him at the moment. Niemi has been average, or below average, and the guys don't trust him. Stalock has been good to great, but they don't know him that well yet. Neither situation is ideal, obviously.

Stalock needs to play more games, and play well consistently, so the guys can get comfortable playing in front of him. They will play better the more confidence they have in their goalie (and their defense, and each other, etc). It starts with the goalie.

This is a bigger problem than we are making it out to be. Niemi has really not been good consistently at all this season. I don't know if he's injured or what, but its clearly effecting the team. Either he needs to start playing better immediately, Stalock needs to take over as #1 or the Sharks are going to be forced to make a trade for a goalie the team can trust. They don't have the defense to cover for an 'iffy' goalie, and their system is not designed to do that. It's too late in the season to change that realistically. Unless Niemi turns it around they should really look to move him in the off-season.

I don't know where you're getting that the Sharks have more confidence in Stalock. It's obvious to me that they play a far more defensive game when he's in net as the stats show. I know he's come in a couple times late in games, but that doesn't make up for the difference.

Stalock SA PG 22.06

Greiss SA PG 26.74

Last night was another example with a total of 20 shots against.

I agree Niemi has been sub par recently and during another stretch earlier in the season, but I don't agree with the overall consensus that he's been below average all season.

 

[hockeyball]

I don't know where you're getting that the Sharks have more confidence in Stalock. It's obvious to me that they play a far more defensive game when he's in net as the stats show. I know he's come in a couple times late in games, but that doesn't make up for the difference.

Stalock SA PG 22.06

Greiss SA PG 26.74

Last night was another example with a total of 20 shots against.

I agree Niemi has been sub par recently and during another stretch earlier in the season, but I don't agree with the overall consensus that he's been below average all season.

Pretty sure I didn't say that. I said in fact they don't have confidence in either of them, pretty clearly:

"Niemi has been average, or below average, and the guys don't trust him. Stalock has been good to great, but they don't know him that well yet."

The most I said was they have a 'little bit' more confidence in Stalock, recently anyway (they score more when he's in net). I don't think it's a significant difference though because they don't know him well enough to have any real confidence in him.

Suffice to say, Stalock is playing well, Niemi is not. Either the team needs to give Stalock more starts (assuming he keep splaying at the same level) so the team can build confidence in him or Niemi needs to start playing better immediately so the team can feel confident in him again. That, or they need to make a trade for a stud that the team automatically has confidence in.

Point being, the Sharks are partially playing like **** because they don't trust the guy in net, either of them, they need to fix that.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Dat Hannan doe.

 

[Led Zappa]

Pretty sure I didn't say that. I said in fact they don't have confidence in either of them, pretty clearly:



The most I said was they have a 'little bit' more confidence in Stalock, recently anyway (they score more when he's in net). I don't think it's a significant difference though because they don't know him well enough to have any real confidence in him.

Suffice to say, Stalock is playing well, Niemi is not. Either the team needs to give Stalock more starts (assuming he keep splaying at the same level) so the team can build confidence in him or Niemi needs to start playing better immediately so the team can feel confident in him again. That, or they need to make a trade for a stud that the team automatically has confidence in.

Point being, the Sharks are partially playing like **** because they don't trust the guy in net, either of them, they need to fix that.

Even saying they have a little more confidence in Stalock is saying a lot when it's the exact opposite. In fact I'd argue that their confidence in Niemi when Niemi is playing poorly is exactly why his save percentage is lower. Having said that, I think it's a combination of Niemi's play and the poor defensive effort as I noted in another post with SJeasy that is leading to the perception of Niemi's poor play appearing worse than it actually is.

This board has always had a problem with Niemi and when he sneezes it becomes time to trade him.

Niemi needs to be better, but he has had a couple excellent games even in recent memory, so it's completely reasonable to assume he has it in him to return to form. Again, I'll wait until after the break and were healthy to leap to all these reasons and conclusions for our lackluster play, 12 points ahead of the Kings sudo problems

 

[Alwalys]

I don't know where you're getting that the Sharks have more confidence in Stalock. It's obvious to me that they play a far more defensive game when he's in net as the stats show. I know he's come in a couple times late in games, but that doesn't make up for the difference.

Stalock SA PG 22.06

Greiss SA PG 26.74

Last night was another example with a total of 20 shots against.

I agree Niemi has been sub par recently and during another stretch earlier in the season, but I don't agree with the overall consensus that he's been below average all season.

I think some of this difference is actually on stalock, his ability to move the puck is valuable and almost certainly helps prevent the sieges that niemi tends to get into.

 

[hockeyball]

Even saying they have a little more confidence in Stalock is saying a lot when it's the exact opposite. In fact I'd argue that their confidence in Niemi when Niemi is playing poorly is exactly why his save percentage is lower. Having said that, I think it's a combination of Niemi's play and the poor defensive effort as I noted in another post with SJeasy that is leading to the perception of Niemi's poor play appearing worse than it actually is.

This board has always had a problem with Niemi and when he sneezes it becomes time to trade him.

Niemi needs to be better, but he has had a couple excellent games even in recent memory, so it's completely reasonable to assume he has it in him to return to form. Again, I'll wait until after the break and were healthy to leap to all these reasons and conclusions for our lackluster play, 12 points ahead of the Kings sudo problems

I agree, none of what your saying disagrees with what I said, aside from your opinion on whether hey have confidence in him or not. The end result is still the same though.

a) They don't have a lot of confidence in Stalock because they don't have experience with him. If Stalock is going to continue to play better than Niemi than he must be given more starts to build that confidence.

b) Niemi needs to start playing up to his level soon. There isn't enough time left in the season for him to continue to limp his way to the playoffs. The team has to decide either to give Stalock more starts, or bet on Niemi coming around before the playoffs.

c) another option is to trade for an established goalie, which would mean moving Niemi most likely (but potentially Stalock). I don't think this is a good use of assets, but it's possible, and it IS an option whether we like it or not.

Beyond that, IF Niemi is still stinking it up come the off-season you may be better off to move him at that point, especially if Stalock has 'stolen' the job.

 

[Led Zappa]

I think some of this difference is actually on stalock, his ability to move the puck is valuable and almost certainly helps prevent the sieges that niemi tends to get into.

While I love that part of his game I don't think that's it. I believe last nights 2 shot 3rd period was a Sharks record. If that was it last night would not be a shining example. And if it was working that well you'd think it would show up in the shot totals. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Off to do some research.

 

[hockeyball]

While I love that part of his game I don't think that's it. I believe last nights 2 shot 3rd period was a Sharks record. If that was it last night would not be a shining example. And it was working that well you'd think it would show up in the shot totals. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Off to do some research.

I think his puck moving ability is only useful is the team takes advantage of it, and they really are not. It is helpful on PK's and stuff from time to time, but if the team isn't using him like a 3rd d-man then it isn't much help.

 

[Led Zappa]

I think his puck moving ability is only useful is the team takes advantage of it, and they really are not. It is helpful on PK's and stuff from time to time, but if the team isn't using him like a 3rd d-man then it isn't much help.

Yeah, it's his ability to do it more than the benefits I've seen from it that I'm excited about.

 

[one2gamble]

I agree Niemi has been sub par recently and during another stretch earlier in the season, but I don't agree with the overall consensus that he's been below average all season.

He has had a couple stellar games but I would say he has been below his average over most of the season and down right terrible for large chunks of it.

That said, I cant pinpoint why because the defense has at times been just as responsible for some of the goals.

I dont like having the "big save when the team needs it" stigma attached but Nemo has been letting in some soft goals when the team really cant afford to give them up.

 

[one2gamble]

I think his puck moving ability is only useful is the team takes advantage of it, and they really are not. It is helpful on PK's and stuff from time to time, but if the team isn't using him like a 3rd d-man then it isn't much help.

The team almost stumbles over itself when Stalock moves the puck. They have no clue what they are supposed to do or where they are supposed to be going when hes net.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think his puck moving ability is only useful is the team takes advantage of it, and they really are not. It is helpful on PK's and stuff from time to time, but if the team isn't using him like a 3rd d-man then it isn't much help.

I think that there's a total team strategy that is starting to take advantage of his puck moving. There were a few times where he made that long pass to a forward trying to spring them on an odd man rush. I feel like the coaches are giving him a little more leeway and mending the strategy so that things like the long pass can get done.

 

[Alwalys]

While I love that part of his game I don't think that's it. I believe last nights 2 shot 3rd period was a Sharks record. If that was it last night would not be a shining example. And if it was working that well you'd think it would show up in the shot totals. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Off to do some research.

Oddly enough the Sharks carried play through most of last night, including in the 3rd. That only 2 shots made it on goal seems to be an anomaly and probably luck-based.

http://www.extraskater.com/game/2014-02-05-stars-sharks