GDT: Game #52 Minnesota Wild @ San Jose Sharks 7:30pm PST 25 Jan 2014 CSNCa Team leaders
- Thread starter AstroDan
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I'm inclined to agree with your take on Sheppard. As for Havlat, he doesn't have to play a 4th line role. He should be playing on the 3rd line and move down Bracken Kearns to the 4th line and take out John McCarthy or Mike Brown. Kearns can center that 4th line.
sr228
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Yep. The coaches can only work with the skaters that are healthy right now and really, they've done an exceptional job.
If it turns out that none of the injured guys come back before the break and the Sharks can't match up with Chicago in a game in early Feb., while still missing 3 of their top 9 skaters, whatever, but I'm inclined to wait and actually watch the game before deciding that they just can't hang.
Gene Parmesan
Dedicated to babies who came feet first
Agreed. The incorporation of injured players won't be easy either. Wouldn't surprise if they looked really bad for a few games. Especially Torres.
sr228
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I'm not a big fan of McCarthy but again, the coaches only have so many players at their disposal right now and since they're very happy with the 3rd line, he's the only center available for the 4th line. So yes, icing 3 wingers on the 4th line could possibly be worse.
Plowevelski
wuts this SCF thing?
After last night's game all I have to say is I love Joe Thornton so much... So much. Total bomb in OT last night. Love the post game interview love that he and Patty got us the 2 points.
Pavelski though on that final shift was tenacious as hell. Clutch as **** as usual. Dude made it happen keeping that puck in despite the pressure.
I sensed so much confidence and unity from Jumbo's post game interview. This man must lead us to the promised land.
Pavelski though on that final shift was tenacious as hell. Clutch as **** as usual. Dude made it happen keeping that puck in despite the pressure.
I sensed so much confidence and unity from Jumbo's post game interview. This man must lead us to the promised land.
We'll see how he really feels after their winning streak is over. That third line has been good in spurts but not producing at all. It can be improved upon when Sheppard and/or Havlat are ready to go. And Couture should be close to returning as well.
Regardless of level of effectiveness people want to think he'll have, it's better than what they have and in their best interests to get him into the lineup and play. I'd rather have Havlat in game shape rather than having him wait until others return before he's allowed to play. That's just silly.
do0glas
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Based on his play when he first came back I don't really want him on the ice at all. I've seen his effectiveness with those style players and it wasn't great.
Even when they put him with couture it wasn't enough for me to say I'd rather him be on that line than wingels for instance.
If he's just rehabbing maybe we will see him again though.
Pavs did a good job taking the puck away at the blue line, but that keep in was all thornton. He is the one that stopped pavs stripping of the puck from coming out of the zone, and kept the play alive.
He's not going to get traded or get any better by sitting in the press box and he is still at worst equally effective as Mike Brown and John McCarthy. And I'm sure it's arguable that he's more effective than other guys in that bottom six. To go with that, they still have a very ineffective 2nd power play unit that could use a player like Havlat if he earns it.
I agree with this. Just because we've found a Scapegoat does not mean that we should kid ourselves into thinking that he is not a better option than most of the players on our bottom 6. That being said, as long as we're winning, I don't see a reason to change it quite yet.
sr228
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Ya, I agree. Part of me is hoping that they're "Gomezing" him but the Sharks org doesn't really seem the type to do that kind of thing.
It'll be interesting to see what the coaches do with him going forward.
do0glas
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I'd agree about brown but not McCarthy.
I don't care if he sits in the press box. I personally think we've seen his best and to me it wasn't good enough. In this case I'll take will over skill. Brown is likely to sit once Torres is back though.
As for our pp. Once couture is back I think it'll be enough. Until we get an upgrade on D we will still see the dump in entries from Irwin.
Even our first unit is slumping bad though.
Is there any real support for saying McCarthy is more effective than Havlat? What will is there from McCarthy that makes you believe you'd rather have him over Havlat?
Havlat, even if he did absolutely nothing offensively like McCarthy has done, is still better defensively than McCarthy and it's not as if Havlat hasn't been playing with the same type of players.
I disagree the risk vs reward with McCarthy havlat is staggering. I get that there has not been much reward with havlat but it would help if they let him on the ice. What has McCarthy done? Nothing will change until we drop a few or get healthy most likely. But keeping McCarthy in the lineup just because he is a 4c is rediculous when their are other options going forward
do0glas
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Essentially if we say they are equally effective I look at a few things.
Skating ability-McCarthy at this point is going to be a better forechecker.
Natural center-we need a guy that can play that position. You can say havlat is responsible defensively as a winger, but it's a different claim to say he could read the game defensively as a center. Shep is the only other center we have of pavs is on the top line a couture is hurt.
PK ability. Havlat doesn't PK, McCarthy does.
Maybe I play havlat over brown, but here's the thing. Havlat hasn't shown he can make scrubs score, he doesn't skate very fast and he's hardly a difference maker defensively. So it's almost a wash IMO. I wouldn't mind trying havlat with Hayes and McCarthy though.
What does it matter if McCarthy penalty kills? We are the least penalized team in the league by a mile. That is not a good reason to keep him in the lineup. I see your logic but for a team that is rarely shorthanded the fact that he penalty kills is insignificant when you consider who we have already. So having him and his 45 seconds of pk time over havlat. No point there
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Except McCarthy fore-checks about as much as Havlat does. There are plenty of guys they can get to center the 4th line. The natural center stuff is the weakest argument for keeping a guy in especially when McCarthy wasn't even playing center in San Jose until midway through this season. His penalty killing is replaceable. They had gotten by without it for a long while before he was called up.
His skating is not what it was before but I don't see McCarthy's skating as being much better. Brown is much faster than either but is horribly ineffective. And that's an issue with McCarthy. Even if he is a better skater than Havlat, he still isn't as effective as Havlat. And Havlat has a long history of very good defensive play in his career so to say he's hardly a difference maker is not giving enough credit where it's due. Even in a season like he's having now, he still manages to do well defensively and not give goals up. McCarthy cannot say that...he's not good defensively.
do0glas
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Your comparing a winger to a center defensively. Apples and oranges.
Havlat may have been something in his career, but here and now he is a worse choice than McCarthy.
McCarthy does forecheck. That line is but to forecheck. He's not first in, but that's that lines identity. Havlat would come in and play completely different from those guys. It won't work.
Notice I didn't say his speed made him effective. Just that he's a better skater, more balance better edges.
In terms of possession stats he is equal to brown with around the same amount of minutes.
Instead of figuring out why McCarthy fits better with how this team plays (which is fairly obvious) tell me how what you've seen from havlat will really make a difference in the long run in this current bottom six.
I'm comparing a winger to another winger who has been playing center for a little bit this year...not an actual center. You've yet to show that Havlat is worse as a choice than McCarthy. Your fore-check argument is weak because he doesn't do that very often and he certainly doesn't do it very well. His skating effectiveness is not better than Havlat even this year when Havlat is recovering from a major surgery. I don't care if McCarthy can stay on his skates better. He doesn't utilize his skating ability to be a more effective player on either end of the ice than Havlat.
It doesn't take very long to figure out why Havlat is more effective than McCarthy. Production on one side and what they give up on the other end is really all you need to know. McCarthy does next to nothing on the offensive end, and yes even in his 4th line role he is expected to do more than one assist, and doesn't defend the other side very well either.
Gene Parmesan
Dedicated to babies who came feet first
And that's the thing with Marty. He hasn't seem to fit with any line and that's just the reality of what is facing San Jose in regards to Havlat. Outside of his mistake on the Ballard goal..Brown has done his job.
But to say that the third and fourth lines are fit is either wrong or lowering the standard really low because while Kearns-Desjardins-Kennedy create energy, they're not productive enough for a 3rd line and Hayes-McCarthy-Brown is bad. There's a reason why Brown was benched after that goal. He doesn't exactly fit either and neither does McCarthy centering that line.
