GDT: Game 52: Avs in LA | 8:30 PM MT | January 27, 2016

[LazRNN]

I think the only person who might actually try to make that argument is behind the players bench during games.

Crazy argument or not, we all lose no matter what to that guy.

I doubt he's going to make THAT argument. He does likely have a different view of developing players and the value of veterans in certain roles than many of us fans, and yeah, we don't get to engage in a debate with him on that matter. But that's not what's really happening here.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Guenin has no talent at all. Redmond just can't consistently use his, which is actually at a fairly high level. that's not really a fair argument.

I really do wonder to myself if Redmond might figure himself out in a year or two. IF!!!!! he ever does he'll be dangerous as hell, for the other team instead of the one he plays on obviously.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I doubt he's going to make THAT argument. He does likely have a different view of developing players and the value of veterans in certain roles than many of us fans, and yeah, we don't get to engage in a debate with him on that matter. But that's not what's really happening here.

I was just trying to be a smart ass, but you're not falling for it.

Roy does have a take on that stuff that makes you scratch your head sometimes, but he gets his desired result in the end I think.

It just often seems like the longer and more difficult road.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Guenin has no talent at all. Redmond just can't consistently use his, which is actually at a fairly high level. that's not really a fair argument.

I'm not really arguing anything anyway. Sure I guess anyone under 30 could improve. Maybe the better question is why and how did Holden improve since many didn't think it was possible. And just how much has he improved. He's playing legit top 4 D, does he deserve to stay in that role?

 

[AvsRobin]

I'm not really arguing anything anyway. Sure I guess anyone under 30 could improve. Maybe the better question is why and how did Holden improve since many didn't think it was possible. And just how much has he improved. He's playing legit top 4 D, does he deserve to stay in that role?

I think the improvement of Holden gets exaggerated a bit around here. He is having his best season out of his three with us. He still has same flaws and same strengths. I think the key factor is that last season, he played more than 50% of his minutes with Brad Stuart. This year he has played 700 out of his 942 minutes with Tyson Barrie. That makes a huge difference. I know people don't really think Stuart was as bad as I think last season. But it's a massive difference switching from Stuart to Barrie as your main partner. And it's also a better pairing, less puck-handling for Holden. That's where most of his brainfarts came from.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I'm not really arguing anything anyway. Sure I guess anyone under 30 could improve. Maybe the better question is why and how did Holden improve since many didn't think it was possible. And just how much has he improved. He's playing legit top 4 D, does he deserve to stay in that role?

At that age most improvement is mental. Which I think that's one area Holden has really improved this year. He doesn't look nearly as lost, confused, unaware, or panicy with the puck as he has in previous years. And as Robin mentioned, having Barrie makes things a lot easier in the puck handling department as well.

Redmond is in the same boat. He has some good traits, but mentally he just hasn't put it together. I think his new found physicality is a good step in the right direction. And like Holden, he too seems to be benefiting from having a competent partner. He also came into the league at a late age, so his mental curve is further behind than your typical 27 year old. He just now hit 100 games. Don't they say to wait until a Dman has played 300 games or something like that before they have fully developed?

Guenin on the other hand, I never got the sense he was a dumb player. He was just so damn slow, which definitely wasn't going to improve with age, and had no skills, which is something that he would have developed earlier in his career if it was ever going to happen.

 

[22FUTON9]

The thing is I've seen numerous times where Holden bails out Barrie as well lol I think he really has improved

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think the improvement of Holden gets exaggerated a bit around here. He is having his best season out of his three with us. He still has same flaws and same strengths. I think the key factor is that last season, he played more than 50% of his minutes with Brad Stuart. This year he has played 700 out of his 942 minutes with Tyson Barrie. That makes a huge difference. I know people don't really think Stuart was as bad as I think last season. But it's a massive difference switching from Stuart to Barrie as your main partner. And it's also a better pairing, less puck-handling for Holden. That's where most of his brainfarts came from.

Some of Holden's stick handling moves though, under pressure mind you, I'm like

That's not something THAT player is supposed to be able to do lol

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think Holden's skating has improved too. He's going to still have a few brain farts but it's not like EJ and Barrie don't have their moments.

 

[Tweaky]

So much love for Holden. From WOAT to ... decent? Warms my heart.

And to be fair to last years Holden...that Stuart/Holden pairing was our shutdown pair for the second (and better) half. Punching way above weight class there. As were the rest of the boys, apart from Barrie (he was great, just not being asked to play above his ability the way the rest were).

 

[Foppa2118]

Been at or watched every game. He is a good young D man.
And I have not seen him covering for anybody's mistakes.
Just playing his game.
Seen him get caught up ice and make a few mistakes too but don't feel a burning desire to put his play down.
Every player makes mistakes even him

Sorry but if you're trying to paint Redmond and Bodnarchuk's mistakes on the same level as every other player's mistakes, including Bigras, you're pretty off in your assessment. He's covered for a great deal of their issues, and it's making his job much tougher than it should be.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Sorry but if you're trying to paint Redmond and Bodnarchuk's mistakes on the same level as every other player's mistakes, including Bigras, you're pretty off in your assessment. He's covered for a great deal of their issues, and it's making his job much tougher than it should be.

Just so we're clear 'covering for their mistakes' to me means what Bigras does immediately following a mistake his partner makes in order to keep the failed play from costing the team.

Correct?

It's not like hes out there coaching or preemptively controlling the pairing like FB did with Zadorov obviously.

Edit : I feel like some people perceive the positive comments about Bigras to be more towards describing what FB did for Zadorov, rather than just playing cleaner as the first statement would suggest.

 

[Foppa2118]

Just so we're clear 'covering for their mistakes' to me means what Bigras does immediately following a mistake his partner makes in order to keep the failed play from costing the team.

Correct?

It's not like hes out there coaching or preemptively controlling the pairing like FB did with Zadorov obviously.

Edit : I feel like some people perceive the positive comments about Bigras to be more towards describing what FB did for Zadorov, rather than just playing cleaner as the first statement would suggest.

I haven't paid attention to the other comments here, but to me "covering for mistakes" doesn't have anything to do with talking or giving advice. He's scrambling to cover his partners open men, or having to react desperately to break up a play because his partners are turning pucks over or losing battles. Those are the mistakes he's covering for, and it's what his partner should be doing for him, not the other way around.

He needs a partner that's more solid on the ice to cover for his own young mistakes, even though he doesn't make that many. It's important for young D men to have a smooth transition into the NHL, not be thrown into the ocean with an anchor tied to your ankle. I'm just seeing too much of a frantic style to his game, and it's because he's constantly having to make plays under pressure.

Fortunately, as I said before I think he's smart enough and has the right mentality to deal with it, but it's not even close to ideal for how you want to break a promising young D man into the league.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I haven't paid attention to the other comments here, but to me "covering for mistakes" doesn't have anything to do with talking or giving advice. He's scrambling to cover his partners open men, or having to react desperately to break up a play because his partners are turning pucks over or losing battles. Those are the mistakes he's covering for, and it's what his partner should be doing for him, not the other way around.

He needs a partner that's more solid on the ice to cover for his own young mistakes, even though he doesn't make that many. It's important for young D men to have a smooth transition into the NHL, not be thrown into the ocean with an anchor tied to your ankle. I'm just seeing too much of a frantic style to his game, and it's because he's constantly having to make plays under pressure.

Fortunately, as I said before I think he's smart enough and has the right mentality to deal with it, but it's not even close to ideal for how you want to break a promising young D man into the league.

Yeah, you articulated it far better. That's what I meant

 

[tigervixxxen]

Kinda like Rantanen, would be nice to see Bigras in the O zone on occasion. When he's been there good things have happened.

 

[Foppa2118]

Kinda like Rantanen, would be nice to see Bigras in the O zone on occasion. When he's been there good things have happened.

He really has made some smart and talented plays with the puck. Didn't realize he was so shifty.

Of course having a partner you know has your back allows you to feel comfortable jumping into the play. Doubt he feels that level of comfort with Redmond and Bodnarchuk. I'm surprised he has the confidence to jump into the play at all actually, I would think he'd just play it safe all the time.

 

[cgf]

Landeskog was unbelievable last night.
Duchene was great too. He wins so many battles. There's pucks he has no business getting to that he always ends up with after forcing a ridiculous turnover. His defensive game has come leaps and bounds and it appears he's turning into quite the leader too. Seems like all the things Duchene has been criticized about over the last few years have been addressed. He's on another level compared to any other time of his career right now.

This. So much ****ing this.

Wait whats wrong with Bigras?

He's not Vlasic.

I think the improvement of Holden gets exaggerated a bit around here. He is having his best season out of his three with us. He still has same flaws and same strengths. I think the key factor is that last season, he played more than 50% of his minutes with Brad Stuart. This year he has played 700 out of his 942 minutes with Tyson Barrie. That makes a huge difference. I know people don't really think Stuart was as bad as I think last season. But it's a massive difference switching from Stuart to Barrie as your main partner. And it's also a better pairing, less puck-handling for Holden. That's where most of his brainfarts came from.

His skating has noticeably improved. He's reading the play much quicker to get to where he needs to be even sooner. And he's visibly calmer on the puck when forechecked. Sure we shouldn't be writing him alongside Barrie for the next decade in pen. But he's genuinely improved a lot, and those improvements + playing with Barrie, have helped him find a new level. He's a legitimately good 4/5 tweener this season.

I haven't paid attention to the other comments here, but to me "covering for mistakes" doesn't have anything to do with talking or giving advice. He's scrambling to cover his partners open men, or having to react desperately to break up a play because his partners are turning pucks over or losing battles. Those are the mistakes he's covering for, and it's what his partner should be doing for him, not the other way around.

He needs a partner that's more solid on the ice to cover for his own young mistakes, even though he doesn't make that many. It's important for young D men to have a smooth transition into the NHL, not be thrown into the ocean with an anchor tied to your ankle. I'm just seeing too much of a frantic style to his game, and it's because he's constantly having to make plays under pressure.

Fortunately, as I said before I think he's smart enough and has the right mentality to deal with it, but it's not even close to ideal for how you want to break a promising young D man into the league.

If only Guenin could skate at an NHL level and handle the puck at an NHL level...or Stuart was healthy to give us what he did last season...

He really has made some smart and talented plays with the puck. Didn't realize he was so shifty.

Of course having a partner you know has your back allows you to feel comfortable jumping into the play. Doubt he feels that level of comfort with Redmond and Bodnarchuk. I'm surprised he has the confidence to jump into the play at all actually, I would think he'd just play it safe all the time.

Shoulda listened to TV when she was telling everyone how clever he is, and how tricksy he can be with his skating+skills+smarts.

 

[McMetal]

Landy hasn't been bad at all. That line has been seeing all the toughest defensive matchups for months, so his play isn't really going to "pop" the way it used to. He's solid defensively, and when he gets an opportunity he can still put it away (seems he's been snakebit for a while). He may be playing injured, but he DOES contribute.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Was looking at the box score for the game last night and wow, its insane how much Roy used our Top 4 D last night.


EJ played 30 minutes(29:29, same thing as 30). Beauch was at 28, Barrie at 25 and Holden at 20. EJ didn't have a very good game, but it is at least good to see that in those situations where we're behind Roy is willing to play our best guys a lot. I dont know if Sacco ever let EJ play more then like 22 minutes in a game.



Unfortunately that left only 7 minutes for Bigras and a hilarious 3 for Bozdarichyuk. Its a shame that Bigras doesn't have a longer leash though. With the style he plays he is extremely safe with the puck and always making smart plays it seems. We should be limiting Beauch's minutes to like 20-22 and be giving Bigras the extra 5-6 minutes a night. He is definitely capable of handling them.

 

[McMetal]

No offense to Bigras, but I understand the desire to hold him back in a close game. He is still very new to the league and I have no problem sheltering him for a while longer. Slow and steady.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think the improvement of Holden gets exaggerated a bit around here. He is having his best season out of his three with us. He still has same flaws and same strengths. I think the key factor is that last season, he played more than 50% of his minutes with Brad Stuart. This year he has played 700 out of his 942 minutes with Tyson Barrie. That makes a huge difference. I know people don't really think Stuart was as bad as I think last season. But it's a massive difference switching from Stuart to Barrie as your main partner. And it's also a better pairing, less puck-handling for Holden. That's where most of his brainfarts came from.

It absolutely does not. Going from fringe 6/7 defensemen to a player who has, for the most part, played very well as a top-4 defensemen is a HUGE improvement in the NHL, especially for someone who is as old as Holden and not a young kid who is adjusting to the pro-game.