GDT: Game #43 -- Wed Apr 17, 2013 - Red Wings @ Flames - 9:30 p.m.

[lkleung007]

If Gustavsson wasn't complete garbage maybe he'd give Howard a break. Maybe he would have gotten a start tonight if the Wings had any confidence in him whatsoever. You know what? Since March 1st Howie is allowing 1.84 GAA including tonight's game. Howard is the least of our concerns. He needs to start every game from here on out because we need every point and he gives us our best chance at making the playoffs.

What an awful game...another poor 3rd period...really no excuse for 2 of the 3 goals on Howard.

Gustavsson is fine...the fact that Gustavsson hasn't played much has more to do with the fact that we are fighting for our playoff lives. If we were in a comfortable playoff position right now, Gustavsson would get a lot more starts.

Howard is our #1 goalie and should get the rest of the starts regardless of how good our backup goalie is. This is when Howard really earns his money...we'll know in the next 5 games.

 

[Flowah]

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Filppula

Goose eggs.


Why are these guys untouchable for criticism when they don't produce? They're getting paid to score. You can skate circles around the other team for 60 minutes. If you have nothing to show for it, then it's a 6/7 mil magic show.

Howard was in total brainfart mode, but realgud teams score more than 2 goals against the flippin Flames.

I just want to know what universe you're living in when you think Filppula is untouchable for criticism

People have always touched on Hank too. Usually chalking it up to injury. Datsyuk is the only "untouchable" but even that's wearing off. Generally that's because it's clear he's working his damn hardest every night.

 

[PullHard]

That's not remotely close to what I said.

I said that Tatar isn't going to make this team a Cup contender. Whether he should be playing 6 minutes a night for an NHL team that's about to miss the playoffs or he's playing 18 minutes a night for a team that looks like it could win the Calder Cup, that's a different conversation.

Also, they can't recall Tatar unless there are multiple injuries because they have used all of their post-deadline recalls and can only call players up if there is a roster emergency.

THEY COULDN'T EVEN CALL HIM UP IF THEY WANTED TO. MOVE ON.

Can you at least admit we're a better team with Tatar in the line up? Please tell me Kenny hasn't brainwashed you as well!

I jest. I kind of like having to worry about the Wings for once. Makes the regular season relevant.

 

[detredWINgs]

This team desperately, desperately needs to add a veteran defenseman who plays a calm, steady game. I don't even care if he's physical - he just needs to be a calming influence back there. Every single one of our defensemen, from top to bottom, run around like chickens with their heads cut off. And Dekeyser is the steadiest of them all.

It boggles my mind that Ken Holland didn't realize when we lost Stuart and Lidstrom, we were actually losing two defensive defenseman...Just like it boggles my mind that we traded a 1st for Kyle F. Quincey when we could've held on to our first and just signed Salo, Carkner, Aucoin, Zanon, etc. and been no worse off.

 

[SoupGuru]

I don't care who's on our 3rd and 4th lines. We have bigger issues than that. If our best players don't show up, we lose.

It has been a couple of weeks now of our top players phoning it in. I'll give Franzen an exception. But Z, D, Flip, Kronwall, Howard... We can't win without them.

 

[Eastopia]

If Gustavsson wasn't complete garbage maybe he'd give Howard a break. Maybe he would have gotten a start tonight if the Wings had any confidence in him whatsoever. You know what? Since March 1st Howie is allowing 1.84 GAA including tonight's game. Howard is the least of our concerns. He needs to start every game from here on out because we need every point and he gives us our best chance at making the playoffs.

My point was simply that when Monster has made a mistake, people have gone ape-**** on him, ignoring circumstances like how many games he has played in how long. Even goals that hasn't been his fault, but rather that of the d, has been immediately blamed entirely on him.

Yet whenever Howard ****s up, people don't call him out. It's always the fault of whatever scapegoat that happens to be on the ice at that time. Excuses for him comes faster than Babcock can call Cleary's play "realgud". People even defend and excuse him for his ****-ups this game.

Yet some people still would have us believe that he "gets a lot of ****".

 

[HTT3*]

He was pretty average for their first ten games. Was fantastic a lot of the time and was really great for the last two months before the lockout lifted. The concerning part was his skating from about November on seemed to change a little.

I would say below average. I think Billins looks like an all star compared to Smith.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Calling fans spoiled because they are unhappy with this game is simply insulting.

agree, and we have had a lot of exchanges. But people should be frustrated, this was an unacceptable effort tonight and has been an unacceptable season, really regardless of what they do over the last five games. Tough questions need to be asked and a plan needs to materialize moving forward. This team doesn't seem to be responding to Babcock or very accountable to each other. Howard's gestures showed that guys are frustrated with each other, the blank stares and body language was all wrong this game and it isn't the first time we have seen it. I do wonder if Z doesn't want to hammer them for their play being a first year captain but he should. If he doesn't than Kronner should he has never been shy about sharing his opinion and is outspoken.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I would say below average. I think Billins looks like an all star compared to Smith.

Um...

Billins was an all-star at least in terms of selection. He doesn't have many gifts that will translate to the next level and was not better than Smith in Grand Rapids.

 

[Flowah]

If you believe Smith and Kindl were good, then my god you are really blind. No offense, you seem to be someone who really has passion for the game, but you seem to have very little knowledge.

If you think Smith and Kindl were fine, then I won't argue with you. I will let you believe it...

They were fine. But I can play this game too.

"If you think Smith and Kindl weren't fine, I won't argue with you. No offense, but you seem to have very little knowledge of hockey."

There, how's that?

 

[detredWINgs]

Nyquist and Franzen are the only players acting like they actually care. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, they look like they want to go take an early vacation and say FU@k YOU to all the fans.

 

[AaronDellForPrez]

If its any consolation (from a sharks fan) the sharks are probably just 1 year away from being in the same condition as the redwings. Maybe one last push this year, but everyone is getting old and next year I suspect they will be right on the edge of the outside, looking in, like the wings will (probably) be this year. And then they will get blown up, and I will be sad.


And Thornton has never really recovered from this:

 

[Flowah]

Yet whenever Howard ****s up, people don't call him out. It's always the fault of whatever scapegoat that happens to be on the ice at that time. Excuses for him comes faster than Babcock can call Cleary's play "realgud". People even defend and excuse him for his ****-ups this game.

Stop this.

Howard gets called out plenty.

He has a rep for letting in a soft goal or two on a consistent basis. But for the most part he is an absolutely solid and dependable goalie. His play shows that and is backed up by the numbers.

 

[Frk It]

Why on a team that contains the following forwards: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Franzen, Filppula and Brunner does Dan Cleary ever see a second of power play time?
If you want 2 screeners go with Franzen and Andersson. Andersson is actually big and may screen the goalie. Cleary absolutely kills the cycle when we get possession in the zone, and he blocks more of our point shots than he does screen the goalie.

 

[nik jr]

Thank god I am not the only one seeing this. He is defensive more than offensive because the surrounding team, but scoring 2 goals a game isn't going to win you a game. He is invisible compared to prior years offensively it seems to me.

I blame Babcock for not saying hey Pav let the D do their work if they get burnt its on them, you are here to play offense and hustle on the backcheck, so go attack.

i have also noticed and posted about it before. datsyuk often plays like a defensive midfielder. that has helped the team defensively, and is probably important for his backchecking, but it has also probably limited his offense. it is possible that a more defensive position means his unit has more time in the offensive zone, b/c counterattacks get stopped more quickly, but it also means chances in the offensive zone are fewer and less likely to become goals.

i don't think datsyuk is as fast or dynamic as he was a few years ago, which is probably related to his knee injury last year. he often looks tired to me.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Franzen has been pretty good lately.

On the other hand what a way for Filppula to end his tenure with the Wigns. Yikes.

 

[kuick]

I find it so odd that half of this forum still doesn't recognize that Franzen is improving. He's been much better since he got slotted at center. Better compete level.

Easily one of our better forwards this month. Don't let stubborn grudges change blind your vision.

 

[Goalie guy]

If its any consolation (from a sharks fan) the sharks are probably just 1 year away from being in the same condition as the redwings. Maybe one last push this year, but everyone is getting old and next year I suspect they will be right on the edge of the outside, looking in, like the wings will (probably) be this year. And then they will get blown up, and I will be sad.


And Thornton has never really recovered from this:

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Why on a team that contains the following forwards: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Franzen, Filppula and Brunner does Dan Cleary ever see a second of power play time?
If you want 2 screeners go with Franzen and Andersson. Andersson is actually big and may screen the goalie. Cleary absolutely kills the cycle when we get possession in the zone, and he blocks more of our point shots than he does screen the goalie.

Agreed, he did do a good job of ceiling the wall and playing the puck to Andersson on Gus' goal. But it is few and far between these days, Andy has played the exact role we are talking about in Grand Rapids and is actually good at keeping the puck and retrieving it when it goes down low. Biggest problem is when they try to have Cleary carry the puck into the zone, teams are forcing him to be the pressure release guy for a reason they know he is easy with the puck.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

agree, and we have had a lot of exchanges. But people should be frustrated, this was an unacceptable effort tonight and has been an unacceptable season, really regardless of what they do over the last five games. Tough questions need to be asked and a plan needs to materialize moving forward. This team doesn't seem to be responding to Babcock or very accountable to each other. Howard's gestures showed that guys are frustrated with each other, the blank stares and body language was all wrong this game and it isn't the first time we have seen it. I do wonder if Z doesn't want to hammer them for their play being a first year captain but he should. If he doesn't than Kronner should he has never been shy about sharing his opinion and is outspoken.

I don't know if it would help or of its happened but someone in that lockerroom other than Babcock needs to get pissed off and say something. Who knows if it has happened or if it would help. I just get this feeling that the vets on this team are too comfortable and just coasting through the season. They don't have to worry about management because they have the most loyal GM in sports, their jobs are safe from the young kids, and most of them have already accomplished so much. Maybe the culture in the lockerroom (in some aspects) needs to change.

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

So do we still have a hold on the 8th seed or has columbus jumped us.

 

[Eastopia]

Stop this.

Howard gets called out plenty.

He has a rep for letting in a soft goal or two on a consistent basis. But for the most part he is an absolutely solid and dependable goalie. His play shows that and is backed up by the numbers.

I can only go by what I have seen, and him getting called out in any number resembling plenty, I have not.

 

[Frk It]

I find it so odd that half of this forum still doesn't recognize that Franzen is improving. He's been much better since he got slotted at center. Better compete level.

Easily one of our better forwards this month. Don't let stubborn grudges change blind your vision.

I wish he would play his old game. I don't know how many times this year guy gets the puck in the slot and just holds it then passes or keeps skating. He used to shoot there all the time. On the power play and in the cycle. It blows my mind. It's not just tonight. I've seen it all season. Pierre and Mickey have pointed it out as well.

Franzen had a grade A scoring chance tonight and gave it to Z at a terrible angle. Datsyuk missed the net god knows how many times. It seemed like 5 or 6. Zetterberg was 1 inch off of sniping kipper. Our best players should have got goals for us and they didn't capitalize. And the chances were there.

 

[nik jr]

I find it so odd that half of this forum still doesn't recognize that Franzen is improving. He's been much better since he got slotted at center. Better compete level.

Easily one of our better forwards this month. Don't let stubborn grudges change blind your vision.

agree

franzen has been better at C, and certainly one of the best players recently. that's a low standard, though.

 

[jroc86]

Coliacovo should be in and Smith out. I didnt mind his penchant for boner plays in previous years because he was supposed to be an offensive stud. Well he looks timid, slow (what happened to his ability to skate the ****ing puck up ice?) and his confidence is shattered. CC makes assertive plays with the puck and is the safe bet. Let him develop his "upside" next year ... I want the best roster we have today to dress. Dekeyser continues to look like he belongs