- Oct 26, 2006
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GDT: Game 41: Coyotes @ Ducks - 2pm - FSAZ
- Thread starter moosemeister
- Start date
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
- 9,242
- 4,582
Anybody still think that with just 3 regulation wins in the first 40 games that the coach and GM really shouldn't be sacked?
BigMac1212
I feel...alone.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 14,583
- 12,521
Depends. Perhaps GMJC told ownership that he needs X number of years to put a playoff team on the ice (considering the budget he can't go out and build a team through free agency), and it's gonna be painful watching the process.
We could be the Astros of Hockey. Houston had fewer than 60 wins for three straight years before their strategy began to pay off.
I'm just saying that we don't know the expectations in the owners suite.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
- 9,242
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Trading for Stepan and Hjalmarsson doesn't jive with that plan.
This team is completely lost and without trade ammo.
42
Registered User
In 41 games, not 40. We are on pace for 46 points versus last years team was on pace for 64 points but turned it on to finish with 70 points
I wonder if we even make it to 46 points? We could have 35% less points then last years team. This is with the addition of Stepan/Tjam. I know Stepan hasn't been great but he is better then what we had last year. We are on pace to finish 50+ points behind Las Vegas, think about that for a minuteBarroway/Chayka laid their own trap. Who's decision was it to unload Verby/Smith/Doan and why is Tip out? The entire leadership group is out. A coach that did more with less is out, replaced by a coach that does less with more. I think Chayka's job is safe since he is the best GM in the NHL according to Barroway. Toccs job is safe for now since Barroway can't afford more coaches to get paid while they get a sun tan. Basically, nothing is going to change.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Why? Tocchet's system is 18o degrees from Tippetts's. DT was 13-22-6 at this point last season. Tocchet is 9-27-5. Big whoop. Coaching change isn't going to help us. A trade isn't going to help us. We fired our GM season before last. Our coaching staff was fired this summer. We dumped our entire veteran leadership group, too. It's hopeless. We tried the big UFA signing in gooigoski and he's been a flop. We swung for the fences with big trades for Stepan and Hjalmarsson and it's had no impact.
Win the lottery. That's the only thing we haven't tried. Maybe that will work. Apart from that, just pick it up and move to another market. Forget it.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 14,583
- 12,521
Still have to meet cap minimum. Also, vets are needed on ice to develop the youth, and Stepan is under contract for 3 more seasons.
A GM trying to win the Cup on a budget needs a multi-year plan to assemble a team through both the draft and acquisitions.
Ducks broadcast team praised many of the Coyotes young players but noted the lack of veteran leadership to mentor the kids.
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Yeah. But you don't trade the 7th overall when your rebuild is already flimsy as it is unless you're trying to pull out of the basement. It didn't work. They're as low as ever, without any trade ammo to pull out of it.
They are stuck in complete futility right now. The early losing streak just shattered them mentally, to go along with what seems like a lot of poisonous players to begin with.
I do not care anymore and I personally hope the franchise moves on to greener pastures. This sub floor embarassment nonsense is not the way to grow hockey in AZ. They can do a much better job in Houston, Seattle, or QC. Even Vegas is better than this team and they started with basically nothing.
This team has no:
1. Money to get better
2. Appeal to UFAs to get better
3. Young players to get better. More young players is only going to make things worse at this point.
4. No arena plans
5. No abundance of prospects or picks to trade
6. Exactly one valuable roster piece to trade (OEL)
Every day they wallow in this shit losing atmosphere it corrupts them just a little bit more.
In 41 games, not 40. We are on pace for 46 points versus last years team was on pace for 64 points but turned it on to finish with 70 points
Barroway/Chayka laid their own trap. Who's decision was it to unload Verby/Smith/Doan and why is Tip out? The entire leadership group is out. A coach that did more with less is out, replaced by a coach that does less with more. I think Chayka's job is safe since he is the best GM in the NHL according to Barroway. Toccs job is safe for now since Barroway can't afford more coaches to get paid while they get a sun tan. Basically, nothing is going to change.
The more I think about it, the more I blame AB for this whole mess. He should have brought in a experienced hockey man to help Chayka. AB wanted to show the world he is "the boss", and the only thing he showed the world is what a complete a-- he was. The foundation was there to keep this rebuild on track, now who knows what can be saved and what moves they are going to make. What has happened is the worst case scenario for this franchise. I have the same feeling now that I had when TGO was here. The organization is walking around lost and they don't know how to fix it. This mess has trickled down from ownership all the way down to on ice performance.
They had a plan, and it was working. AB screwed that up.
I don't think you ever cared about the Coyotes, and to wish your team moves just proves that. You and a handful of other posters wanted change and were thrilled at what happened in the off season, now you are the first ones complaining and your answer is wishing they move. Having said that, I agree with your post, except the last line. In case you had not noticed, only ONE team is better than Vegas at the moment. Let that sink in for a moment. I don't think anyone would have predicted that.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
- 9,242
- 4,582
That's just rt being rt, no different than when I wear my Vegas Golden Knights sweater to the hockey games. We're both protesting ineptitude.
We fired our GM and coach, and purged the team of its veteran leadership, but we failed to supply the team new veteran leadership or a balanced roster. We failed to supply the team with a coach who can get the best out of his players.
Name Nameless
Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
- Apr 12, 2017
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As tanking go, it is better to finish last than on the sixth last spot. Now I'm not a "please finish last"-type of guy. Don't get me wrong. I like how you are leaving that antics to Buffalo and Edmonton. Still, I think it is not right to be as upset as some people are.
And when the team plays decent, even really good, against a possible contender, I don't think it is right to be so pissed. This game was close, down one goal until the goalie was pulled, and then two empty-netters to make the game look more lop-sided than it was.
To grasp a little: We are missing Rinaldo. Strome turned out to need some more time to develop. Many of the best players are really, really young. Finish the season with honor and devoition and trust the next will be better.
And some people compare with the Golden Knights. You must have noted they got, like, the best expansion-deal ever. I don't get why so many people are surprised with that part.
The Coyotes problem -and that is a major problem- there is no hockey-fanatic billionaire wanting to step up though. On that one, I don't have any either.
And when the team plays decent, even really good, against a possible contender, I don't think it is right to be so pissed. This game was close, down one goal until the goalie was pulled, and then two empty-netters to make the game look more lop-sided than it was.
To grasp a little: We are missing Rinaldo. Strome turned out to need some more time to develop. Many of the best players are really, really young. Finish the season with honor and devoition and trust the next will be better.
And some people compare with the Golden Knights. You must have noted they got, like, the best expansion-deal ever. I don't get why so many people are surprised with that part.
The Coyotes problem -and that is a major problem- there is no hockey-fanatic billionaire wanting to step up though. On that one, I don't have any either.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
BUX7PHX
Registered User
- Jul 7, 2011
- 5,581
- 1,350
Agree with you here. His first move was coaching shake-up. Tippett was going to get fired, and he took the way out that made everyone look good. Except if the following coach takes a team that has far more talent to a worse record and look.
It would be something totally different if there was not an addition of talent and veterans to compete sooner, rather than later. Had the roster stayed intact (Smith, Murphy, a green Strome b/c we wouldn't have Stepan), then we should be able to say big whoop. Yes, there are still the Kempes of the world, just as there are the Hollands of the world. But there should be no reason to be significantly worse looking for this long. Maybe a week. Maybe two if we are really having trouble getting kinks out of the system. And if there are still kinks, then simplify. Be an ass. Tocchet says he doesn't want to be that guy, yet he needs to be. Maybe that is what our previous coach's perceived arrogance was coming from.
Coyotedroppings
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2017
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I currently have no problem with RT, the beginning of the season was a totally different story. Since then he's made intelligent adjustments that have made the team generally competitive. Trouble is, we started the season from a standpoint of coaching ignorance that was akin to a drunk gambling in Vegas. The subsequent poor start has spiraled into nearly every mistake becoming a catastrophe on a game by game basis.
The whole idea that Chayka acquired Stepan and Hjalmarsson to push the team into contention is misleading; Chayka directly addressed this in his interview with Custance on the Full 60 (and it's the first question, so take 5 minutes and listen to just that). He acquired them because actual, current young roster players needed sheltering so they could properly develop. That might not be working out as ideally as hoped, particularly if you're solely focused on the W/L columns, but in hindsight, it's still a perfectly justified set of moves from this past summer, especially considering the cost was just #7 in a weaker draft, and even more especially when you consider how well Chayka did in the previous year's draft. Although it's but one year and hard to declare it a pattern, it looks like he's a step ahead of the game on the draft floor, so giving him the benefit of the doubt for trading that pick seems reasonable.
As for the team's play this season, it's certainly night and day out on the ice. Last season we spent like 80% of the game hemmed into our own zone, and couldn't transition into the offensive zone with any consistency whatsoever. At least this season we actual play some offense, playing to win, not playing to not lose. Even though there are costly giveaways or blown coverages that directly lead to goals, and those should definitely lay on the coaching staff, when you stop and think about it, those issues shouldn't be too difficult to fix over time. I'm guessing that the reason they're so high now is some combination of the young roster and the entirely new system that even OEL admitted to having never played before, which causes players who haven't automatized all their defensive fundamentals and systems play to have slip ups.
Anyway, I just think there's a huge misconception about the team's moves and desire for too short of a leash for the coaching staff that's come in with a completely opposite system to yesteryear's.
As for the team's play this season, it's certainly night and day out on the ice. Last season we spent like 80% of the game hemmed into our own zone, and couldn't transition into the offensive zone with any consistency whatsoever. At least this season we actual play some offense, playing to win, not playing to not lose. Even though there are costly giveaways or blown coverages that directly lead to goals, and those should definitely lay on the coaching staff, when you stop and think about it, those issues shouldn't be too difficult to fix over time. I'm guessing that the reason they're so high now is some combination of the young roster and the entirely new system that even OEL admitted to having never played before, which causes players who haven't automatized all their defensive fundamentals and systems play to have slip ups.
Anyway, I just think there's a huge misconception about the team's moves and desire for too short of a leash for the coaching staff that's come in with a completely opposite system to yesteryear's.
AB gave the fans (including me) exactly what they desired. Many here wanted Tippett, Doan, and Smith gone. We wanted there to be an affluence of YOUTH and SPEED. Vast majority of our posters were highly satisfied with the roster after training camp. The alacrity for the season to start on this forum was conspicuous.
But, then we fell flat on our faces this year. I definitely learned a lesson and hopefully our management did as well.
RemoAZ
Let it burn
New coach, new system and we're still the same 2 goal max team. We went from 2 goals and lots of try to 2 goals and now we cry.
Neighborhood Coyote
Registered User
- Sep 14, 2017
- 3,136
- 2,740
Drove out to see this game and it was enjoyable. Solid crowd and interesting to take it in! The employees and fans I met were really nice.
As for the game...I also couldn’t believe how badly Stepan missed that shot...thank goodness for Keller. Was competitive but yes...Anaheim finished the chances they got while the Yotes struggled to do so. PP still needs to be better.
Lots of doom and gloom In this thread. I think this team can find ways to make it work. Mainly by drafting and developing players properly. That a major key for success. That’s how a team can get plenty of trade value and good players for cheap. Exactly how this team needs to go to win.
As for the game...I also couldn’t believe how badly Stepan missed that shot...thank goodness for Keller. Was competitive but yes...Anaheim finished the chances they got while the Yotes struggled to do so. PP still needs to be better.
Lots of doom and gloom In this thread. I think this team can find ways to make it work. Mainly by drafting and developing players properly. That a major key for success. That’s how a team can get plenty of trade value and good players for cheap. Exactly how this team needs to go to win.
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