Post-Game Talk: Game #32: Canucks 3, Avalanche 1 - #BlameJohnGarrett

[vadim sharifijanov]

???

Kassian has looked awful. Why should he be gifted a spot on the top line?

because i don't hate the players (or management, or coaching staff) on this team, nor do i actively derive pleasure from seeing them punished. sometimes i'd like to see the coach try things to get certain guys going, especially when what is currently being tried isn't working.

 

[mossey3535]

Its not about gifting, it's about putting someone out there that will be effective. Hansen isn't that guy. Booth isn't. Dalpe? Maybe Weinhandl?

Yeah but I don't think you can demote Kassian and cut his minutes in order to tell him to wake up and pay attention to the details (which they have done) and then turn around and plop him on the 1st line. It's not consistent. What you could do is start him on the 3rd line next game and if he plays appropriately start him on the 1st line. This is how Higgins got his start with the Sedins.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

As for Edler, like it or not, the Canucks need him to step up and play like a #1 defenceman if they're going to have a shot in the playoffs. Talking about what could have been is pointless. Him being injured gives less time for him to turn his game around under Tortorella.

I think he's been given plenty of chances to prove he's the number 1 guy we all want him to be, but just isn' there. Whats bad about keeping force feeding him that role is it makes the Canucks much less tight defensively.

 

[CCF23]

Man, this little winning streak we're on is/was so crucial. We're still fighting for our lives jockeying constantly for that 2nd wild card spot. If we had kept losing a few more games we would've dug ourselves a hole that would've been extremely tough to climb out of.

 

[mossey3535]

I think he's been given plenty of chances to prove he's the number 1 guy we all want him to be, but just isn' there. Whats bad about keeping force feeding him that role is it makes the Canucks much less tight defensively.

The problem is that many of us expect Edler to be Lidstrom or Suter calibre. What he should be is slightly more reliable and more versatile than Bieksa.

IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with a top-4 of 2nd defencemen.

 

[vancityluongo]

I don't disagree, but given that you expect Horvat on the team next year, do you move Jordan Schroeder once he gets healthy? Just curious how you see things looking assuming a Santo return.

Absolutely. Schroeder is on par if not below a guy like Dalpe who is a marginal bottom-6 tweener worth something like a 4th round pick. Santorelli is playing like a 55 point second liner. Same number of even strength points as John Tavares?

Waive Schroeder if you have to if that's what it takes to keep Santorelli in the line up. Really the battle will be between Horvat and Schroeder and given the respective value of each player to the organization, my guess is Horvat won't be the one that's cut...

Losing Santorelli who has not only been the secondary offense of this team, but in many games like tonight, the primary source of offense, would be a colossal mistake. Gillis either made a genius pro scouting move or fluked out, but either way he should take it to the bank.

Edit: As for the discussion of moving Edler; I don't think it could be done without another marginal top-4 defenseman coming back the other way. One injury to this current D and you're looking at a raw Ryan Stanton, or god forbid, Andrew Alberts in your top-4. The team has been relatively lucky in regards to injuries on the blueline this year, but we all know that they happen. And if you're getting a fringe top-4 defenseman back, I really don't think Edler could or even could have garnered a 30 goal scorer on top of that. The best bet probably is to just hope that he can somehow come back and learn to adjust to Tortorella's system and play as a stable top pairing (not #1) defenseman.

 

[Tanevian*]

Yeah but I don't think you can demote Kassian and cut his minutes in order to tell him to wake up and pay attention to the details (which they have done) and then turn around and plop him on the 1st line. It's not consistent. What you could do is start him on the 3rd line next game and if he plays appropriately start him on the 1st line. This is how Higgins got his start with the Sedins.

I am not concerned with consistency.

 

[Tanevian*]

That's more indicative of the team's inability to defend the lead than a propensity to let in shutout-breaking goals IMO so I didn't include those. You're free to look them up if you want.

I didn't realize you were talking about the team's ability to defend a lead. What was the cause of the goals you documented?

 

[CherryToke]

I was curious about the last minute shutout-breaking so I looked it up. These are the games where the opponent scored their only goal in the dying moments of the game (last minute or two) on Luongo in his career as a Canuck:

Dec 26 2006 - 3-1W over Calgary
Dec 12 2010 - 2-1W over Edmonton
Jan 5 2011 - 3-1W over Calgary
Nov 1 2011 - 5-1W over Calgary
Dec 8 2013 - 3-1W over Colorado

2009 game 4 vs Chicago.
2011 game 7 vs Chicago.


neither were last minute but pretty damn close. worth noting.

 

[Ernie]

I think he's been given plenty of chances to prove he's the number 1 guy we all want him to be, but just isn' there. Whats bad about keeping force feeding him that role is it makes the Canucks much less tight defensively.

He may never have been elite, but he's been a #1 defenceman at times in the past and the Canucks need him to get there again. Him and Ehrhoff were an All-Star pairing that could go up against anyone in the league.

 

[tc 23]

I didn't realize you were talking about the team's ability to defend a lead. What was the cause of the goals you documented?

The discussion I was responding to had to do with people believing Luongo routinely gave up shutouts in the dying moments of the game so I posted the games where he gave up his shutout in the dying moments of the game. Since you're so interested, I took the liberty of looking up the games that ended in 2-1 OT or SO where Luongo gave up a goal late (aka giving up the shootout). The following are those games:

Nov 14 2013 2-1L(OT) vs San Jose
Jan 20 2009 2-1L(OT) vs San Jose
Feb 25 2007 2-1L(OT) vs Dallas

 

[tc 23]

2009 game 4 vs Chicago.
2011 game 7 vs Chicago.


neither were last minute but pretty damn close. worth noting.

I only included regular season stats. I didn't feel like looking through playoffs as I'm currently studying for a final. Those are definitely worth noting though. When I take a break, I'll run through playoff stats as well.

 

[CanadianPirate]

Yeah but I don't think you can demote Kassian and cut his minutes in order to tell him to wake up and pay attention to the details (which they have done) and then turn around and plop him on the 1st line. It's not consistent. What you could do is start him on the 3rd line next game and if he plays appropriately start him on the 1st line. This is how Higgins got his start with the Sedins.

I'm a Kassian fan, I think he has the potential to be one of the most important members of this team and will be part of the next core along with Corrado, Horvat and Shinkaruk however you are absolutely right. He needs to learn how to act instinctively instead of having to think about everything. Having him split his tie between the third and fourth lines will help him learn how to be consistent physically and defensively. The offense will come when he gets those things down right.

 

[MS]

I don't disagree, but given that you expect Horvat on the team next year, do you move Jordan Schroeder once he gets healthy? Just curious how you see things looking assuming a Santo return.

[mod]

Schroeder is waiver bait. If he plays his way out of being waiver bait, cross that bridge when we get to it.

Santorelli has been effective both at center and on the wing. There is a place for him in our top 9 forwards. And Horvat, next year.

 

[Pip]

Just watched the game on record. Lol Garrett, You just know that was going to happen once he dropped the "shutout" and made a big deal about it. haha

 

[Pip]

Schroeder's looked decent in his time here, but decent isn't really good enough at this point in his career. He needs to produce while healthy if he's going to stay in this league. Unfortunately for JS, he won't have too much time this year and has been passed on the depth chart by Santorelli. I still think he can find that niche playing with talented players that he really hasn't been given the chance to here yet, but I think it'll be on another team.

 

[Pip]

Put me in the crowd who doesn't really care about losing the shutout. Similar to Santo getting a hatty, I'm happy to see it but in the end it doesn't matter.

 

[Bougieman]

Missed this game, but watching the highlight package it was pretty amazing to see that it wasn't really a Canucks highlight package, but a collection of Santorelli clips. Seems like he was in on everything good that happened for the team tonight. Made it happen.

Great to see! And he's now on pace for 20 goals, which would equal his best. Not bad for a guy that was penciled in for a spot on the Comets, and a call-up in case our 3rd line guys got injured.

 

[Bougieman]

Speaking of the Comets, I didn't realize that they were the worst team in the AHL at the moment, but just noted that after visiting the AHL site.

And the best team is the Abbotsford Heat. Kinda ironic, considering all the wheeling and dealing earlier in the year for where our farm team would be.

 

[carolinacanuck]

Yeah but I don't think you can demote Kassian and cut his minutes in order to tell him to wake up and pay attention to the details (which they have done) and then turn around and plop him on the 1st line. It's not consistent. What you could do is start him on the 3rd line next game and if he plays appropriately start him on the 1st line. This is how Higgins got his start with the Sedins.

you mean, kinda like they did with david booth?

 

[Intangibos]

Speaking of the Comets, I didn't realize that they were the worst team in the AHL at the moment, but just noted that after visiting the AHL site.

And the best team is the Abbotsford Heat. Kinda ironic, considering all the wheeling and dealing earlier in the year for where our farm team would be.

Even with them being in first place, I think they're like last place in attendance

 

[MadaCanuckle]

???

Kassian has looked awful. Why should he be gifted a spot on the top line?

We should trade that first line asap, right?

 

[John Bender*]

Daniel was struggling prior to the Keith incident. It's just a convenient excuse people tend to use to explain his decline.

You are the most ironic poster in hb history.......or maybe it's hypocritical. Maybe both.

 

[y2kcanucks]

because i don't hate the players (or management, or coaching staff) on this team, nor do i actively derive pleasure from seeing them punished. sometimes i'd like to see the coach try things to get certain guys going, especially when what is currently being tried isn't working.

Saying a certain player hasn't earned a spot on the top line and thus does not deserve to be gifted a spot isn't hating on the player, it's making an astute observation. If Kassian weren't a former first round pick and/or acquired in a trade involving our former best prospect no one would be talking about him on the first line. If Kassian came over through waivers like Weise did then everyone would be content with him in his current fourth line role because that's all his play warrants. Right now Kassian is nothing more than a fourth liner.

 

[y2kcanucks]

2009 game 4 vs Chicago.
2011 game 7 vs Chicago.


neither were last minute but pretty damn close. worth noting.

So now people are *****ing about Luongo because he doesn't get enough shutoutzzz?