Post-Game Talk: Game #31: Canucks beat the Coyotes 3-2 in OT | Higgity, Higgity, Higgins!

[y2kcanucks]

lol at obligatory "Lu has to be better" posts after a win.

Yup. Even when Lu has a great game and outplays the other teams goalie (a ridiculous notion, yet if people want to play that game...) people still complain. Logic left this debate weeks ago.

 

[Barney Gumble]

The stats show AV's teams invariably held leads:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75694475&postcount=164

Great goaltending (Luongo/Schneider) made up for a subpar offense last season (and for much of the season before).

 

[Hal 9000*]

lol, don't embarrass yourself.

Buddy there is claiming Hansen to be the best 3rd liner in the NHL…I disagree, and you think I'm embarrassing myself!

I hope that what comes out of this is an agreement that he actually is a 3rd liner and not anything more.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Buddy there is claiming Hansen to be the best 3rd liner in the NHL…I disagree, and you think I'm embarrassing myself!

I hope that what comes out of this is an agreement that he actually is a 3rd liner and not anything more.

Except that he's been in the top180 for ES scoring for 3 years running...?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Only one of those guys scored or was on pace for 40 ES points in the previous two years while playing bottom 6 minutes. Last season:

Hansen? 42 point pace. 36 points the season prior. So only Cooke and Anisimov on your list would count.

Hair splitting. Don't be ridiculous.
All of them have had 40 pts in the last 5 yrs.
Ott was on pace for 41 pts last season
All of them have very comparable numbers (which was the point) to Hansen, who has never actually reached 40 pts......

 

[Bleach Clean]

Hair splitting. Don't be ridiculous.
All of them have had 40 pts in the last 5 yrs.
Ott was on pace for 41 pts last season
All of them have very comparable numbers (which was the point) to Hansen, who has never actually reached 40 pts......

Do you think work on the PP defines top6 player vs. non-top6 player? Or is 5 on 5 play key?

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

The stats show AV's teams invariably held leads:


This season the NYR have a winning percentage of .917 when leading after 2 periods, the Canucks have one of .833.

Someone rolled out the statistic earlier in the thread about Torts' Rangers going like 95-0-2 with a third period lead. You're taking a very small sample size and putting blame on Tortorella for something that isn't his fault. Nucks fans complain about the lack of secondary scoring, some about Luongo...if I was a fan of them the first thing I'd want fixed was the D. There is no one overly solid player defensively on their D corps and the guys they rely on most like Edler and Bieksa are very overhyped and overrated, IMO.

I could see the Canucks as struggling with leads in the third going forward but not because of the coach, not because they're in the almighty West, but because their defensive personnel gets seemingly weaker by the game, and it's looked like that for years.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

The stats show AV's teams invariably held leads:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75694475&postcount=164

This season the NYR have a winning percentage of .917 when leading after 2 periods, the Canucks have one of .833.

I think the Rangers also had a fantastic record with the lead after 2 under Tortorella as well, though. The Rangers had a 101 game stretch where they never failed to get a point when leading after 2 which got broken this year under AV.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Someone rolled out the statistic earlier in the thread about Torts' Rangers going like 95-0-2 with a third period lead. You're taking a very small sample size and putting blame on Tortorella for something that isn't his fault. Nucks fans complain about the lack of secondary scoring, some about Luongo...if I was a fan of them the first thing I'd want fixed was the D. There is no one overly solid player defensively on their D corps and the guys they rely on most like Edler and Bieksa are very overhyped and overrated, IMO.

I could see the Canucks as struggling with leads in the third going forward but not because of the coach, not because they're in the almighty West, but because their defensive personnel gets seemingly weaker by the game, and it's looked like that for years.

Hamhuis and Garrison are high end left side DFDs... Strong underlying numbers (usually) and steady partners for others. Lest we forget Tanev, who has played the best shut down hockey of his career thus far.

"No one solid defensively" is just... Are you talking about having a franchise Dman?

In your opinion, what is the best defense corps Torts has worked with?

 

[Wetcoaster]

Ed Willes of the Vancouver Province on last night's historical events.

Henrik Sedin time capsule shift. Blocks shot at one end, scores on a one-timer at the other. We'll never see it again folks.
by willesonsports via twitter 8:35 PM yesterday​

“It was awesome,” Jason Garrison said, laughing. “It’s those small things that go kind of unnoticed. Well, unnoticed to some, but Torts will notice that’s for sure.

“But they are such huge plays in the game. It really sends a message when Hank does that. You know how much he wants to win, and how competitive he is.”

 

[Outside99*]

18 shots on goal in the 3rd.

I'm sorry, Luongo can't let that many SOG in a period, let alone by the Coyotes.

 

[opendoor]

Leading after 2

2010-11 38-0-3

2011-12 32-1-2

2012-13 18-2-0

That stat doesn't mean a whole lot given that they're they're 10-1-1 this year.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

As I've *always* maintained - you need *BOTH* parts to be playing at the level they *should* be playing at for this team to succeed in the post-season. Right now, on the season as a whole, we're getting neither.

I agree. But for the time being, I still maintain that, of the two below-their-best components, it's more reasonable to ask the offense to be a bit better than better than average than it is to hope Luongo is going to be spectacular. We can keep going around in circles, but I'm not going to be convinced otherwise.

Edit: I should clarify, I mean above average for a playoff team. I'm sure you can't help but fall ass-backwards into being statistically average in a league this tight.

 

[Tiranis]

Ed Willes of the Vancouver Province on last night's historical events.

Henrik Sedin time capsule shift. Blocks shot at one end, scores on a one-timer at the other. We'll never see it again folks.
by willesonsports via twitter 8:35 PM yesterday​

“It was awesome,†Jason Garrison said, laughing. “It’s those small things that go kind of unnoticed. Well, unnoticed to some, but Torts will notice that’s for sure.

“But they are such huge plays in the game. It really sends a message when Hank does that. You know how much he wants to win, and how competitive he is.â€

Henrik is currently on pace for the 2nd most shots on goal in his career. Bodes well for his production as the past two years he really didn't generate enough shots making his line's play a bit too predictable at times.

 

[Wetcoaster]

According to Luongo he should have had the second goal but he screwed up on his technique.

As described by Jason Botchford:

Sure, it’s hilarious to see five Canucks surround Moss. Talked to Higgins about it and he said he swung his stick and it hit Moss’s which sent the puck into the net.

Maybe more interesting, however, is the position of Luongo’s left skate. You see, after the game, Luongo wasn’t upset about the first goal he let in. He said he never saw that 60 foot shot he called a laser.

No, it was the second one he said he should have had.

And part of the reason he didn’t was that his left skate got caught inside the net while he was using a new technique.

It hasn’t got much ink but Luongo added a new technique in the offseason to his game labelled the “Reverse VH.”

As detailed here by Kevin Woodley, it essentially comes down to post integration, where goalies use their “back leg to both anchor their position against the post, and provide leverage for a quick transition out of it.”

On the goal, he wanted his skate on the post, which would have given him the leverage he needed to push off to make the stop.​

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/12/06/137890/

So yet another Luongo screw-up.

And what exactly is the "Reverse VH"??? No get your mind out of the gutter.
http://ingoalmag.com/news/stars-goalie-coach-mike-valley-teaches-ingoal-the-reverse-vh/

It is where a goalie transitions laterally off the post – easily moving post to post along the goal line, in fact – without using a skate edge to push off the post. It was Jonathan Quick who refined the technique.

To read the full article at InGoal Magazine see:
http://magazine.ingoalmag.com/publication/?i=140306&p=88

 

[Tiranis]

Hair splitting. Don't be ridiculous.
All of them have had 40 pts in the last 5 yrs.
Ott was on pace for 41 pts last season
All of them have very comparable numbers (which was the point) to Hansen, who has never actually reached 40 pts......

Yeah, while scoring 5-15 extra points on the PP. There's a reason he said "even strength".

That's ignoring that Berglund has mostly been the Blues 2nd line centre, Sobotka has never even reached 30 points, Steve Ott used to play top 6 wing when he scored his 40+ point seasons and got time on the PP, etc.

 

[Waveburner]

Will agree with others that Dalpe looks like he might have some potential and deserves more playing time. Whatever the coaches have been teaching him in practice seems to be paying off (albeit in limited minutes). He is *way* harder on the puck now than he was when they traded for him. Also showing far more determination to fight for loose pucks and get engaged in board battles. Add that to his great shot and good passing skills and the Canucks should clearly be trying to see if they have something here.

It's not like the team couldn't desperately use more skill.

Also loving the play of Weise so far. Looks to be taking a step forward in his game, always seems to be around the puck right now.

The last time Hansen played this badly was his rookie season. Hope he can turn things around. He's a stud when he's on his game.

Booth with the Sedin's is just stupid. He is pretty close to being one of the last forwards in the NHL I would play beside them. Hopefully Torts stops this experiment like now.

 

[opendoor]

And in how many of those games did the Canucks score 2 goals? The last time he was nominated for the Vezina, it happened 6 times by my count.

All I'm saying is that I expect the team to score 3 more than I expect Luongo to allow 1.

Last year the Canucks got 14 points in a 48 game season from games where they only managed 1 goal. So far this year they have 1 point through 31 games. That's a pretty big swing.

And you're correct that scoring 3 GF should be more common than only giving up 0 or 1 GA, and that's exactly what's happening with the Canucks. Here's how often teams have scored 3+ and given up fewer than 2 so far this season:

3+ GF: 48% of games

Fewer than 2 GA: 25% of games


So it's about twice as common. Now here's the Canucks:

3+ GF: 51.5% of games

Fewer than 2 GA: 9.6% of games


It's pretty clear which one of those is substandard relative to the rest of the league.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I agree. But for the time being, I still maintain that, of the two below-their-best components, it's more reasonable to ask the offense to be a bit better than better than average than it is to hope Luongo is going to be spectacular. We can keep going around in circles, but I'm not going to be convinced otherwise.

When you phrase it like the following, yes, but that is a misrepresentation of the current state.

The overall markers belie the ES differential, which is at the heart of the matter. ES scoring ranking is strong, while ES sv% is much weaker by comparison. In this sense, Luongo has to have a higher percentage change in play than does the offense. Now that the PP scoring has turned things around, more eyes will be on Lu to shore up his end.

Edit: Are you pulling those stats from hockey reference opendoor?

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Only Luongo haters will look at this photo and describe the sole problem as Luongo. WTF are the skaters doing here? S-O-F-T in front of our own net.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Only Luongo haters will look at this photo and describe the sole problem as Luongo. WTF are the skaters doing here? S-O-F-T in front of our own net.

You need to re-read the post and what Luongo said. It should have been a routine save but he screwed up his technique.

It is not as if this was a blistering shot or a "laser".

 

[polarbearcub]

Only Luongo haters will look at this photo and describe the sole problem as Luongo. WTF are the skaters doing here? S-O-F-T in front of our own net.

3 guys who could lift his stick, and none are

 

[Coconuts]

Is this the longest you guys have been outside of the top 8 in like a decade or what? I predict you finish 6th

In 2005-06 the Canucks missed the playoffs but weren't outside the top 8 until March 20 (for one day) and April 6 after that.

In 2007-08 they also missed, but didn't fall out permanently until 5 days left in the season. There was a 23-day stretch in October-November, but other than that the longest was 14 days in February.

In 2008-09 (when "the streak" occurred) they were out for 9 days in October and then for 7 days during the streak.

This season they fell out of the top 8 on November 15, and other than games played, own the tiebreaker now. If we still consider them out, today would be 23 days, matching the longest streak I have found in the decade. I'm not sure if the ties were broken accurately in the standings I was looking at, but that gives you a good idea.

 

[Scurr]

Only Luongo haters will look at this photo and describe the sole problem as Luongo. WTF are the skaters doing here? S-O-F-T in front of our own net.

The guy didn't even get a shot off... Higgins knocked it off his stick.

I love that Lu is ready to look in the mirror after goals these days.... be nice if his fans would allow for some criticism when warranted.

 

[Lindt]

Yup. Even when Lu has a great game and outplays the other teams goalie (a ridiculous notion, yet if people want to play that game...) people still complain. Logic left this debate weeks ago.

Logic left the debate 40,726 of your posts ago. That being said, Luongo did have a great game. The difference we are seeing is finally getting a decent power play together with very good goaltending. If both sides can keep this up, this will be a very competitive team.

Isn't every game a great game for Lu anyway? After all, he can't be faulted on any goal he's given up all year.