Post-Game Talk: Game #31: Canucks beat the Coyotes 3-2 in OT | Higgity, Higgity, Higgins!

[VanillaCoke]

Yes, please name some of these great 2 way 3rd liners who put up nearly 40 ES points a season.

Steve Ott
Anisimov
Matt Cooke
Berglund
Sobotka
Jarret stoll
Toffoli

Hansen isn't "fantastic" or unique...

 

[Derp Kassian]

Steve Ott
Anisimov
Matt Cooke
Berglund
Sobotka
Jarret stoll
Toffoli

Hansen isn't "fantastic" or unique...

hes a bargain

 

[VanillaCoke]

I really think the problem is Luongo getting rattled. He played so damn good... but he always lets in one soft goal, following that there is about a 5 minute window where he is rattled. Its all in his head.

I think this is totally true. And almost proven by Lu's post game interviews when he's given up a late goal.
For the record I have no problems*** with Lu as #1 goalie!


*** except in the first 2 min, on the first shot, in the last 6 min of the 3rd in close games, and in shootouts.

 

[VanillaCoke]

hes a bargain

Correct.

 

[CanadianPirate]

As an aside, from watching PHX, COL and MIN a bit more recently, I have to say the first two are a bit weaker by comparison. I'm not a fan of what PHX has done with regards to their play style... And COL doesn't really play a style at all. These two teams have the most chance of slipping in the standings IMO.

I agree. I know that Col. is in that third division spot in the central at the moment but I don't think it will last. The Wild are just a much better team.

 

[me2]

I agree. I know that Col. is in that third division spot in the central at the moment but I don't think it will last. The Wild are just a much better team.

Niederreiter has been a great pickup for them. Would have loved to get in on that but it Snow seems to have wanted Clutterbuck. Snow's been on a bit of a dud streak lately.

 

[Jack Tripper]

pretty boring game and pretty disappointing third period collapse from the canucks in the third period...i don't mind if they allow the opposition team to collect a loser point except if those teams are colorado, minnesota or phoenix

tortorella seemed pretty ticked off in his post-game comments and for good reason...no excuse to play the third period with not much intensity and play basically the nhl version of the prevent defence...team should also know by now that luongo has shown little ability to bar the door this season and realize that 2 goals isn't enough to win a hockey game

still not sure about this team as to whether this kind of result should be celebrated as a positive with reduced expectations or whether this game should be a warning sign that, as torts said, they're a poor situational club

 

[vanuck]

pretty boring game and pretty disappointing third period collapse from the canucks in the third period...i don't mind if they allow the opposition team to collect a loser point except if those teams are colorado, minnesota or phoenix

tortorella seemed pretty ticked off in his post-game comments and for good reason...no excuse to play the third period with not much intensity and play basically the nhl version of the prevent defence...team should also know by now that luongo has shown little ability to bar the door this season and realize that 2 goals isn't enough to win a hockey game

still not sure about this team as to whether this kind of result should be celebrated as a positive with reduced expectations or whether this game should be a warning sign that, as torts said, they're a poor situational club

I think they'll learn as the season goes by. Torts has been pretty astute in picking up on things that need addressing so far and my guess is he'll keep getting on their case to play hard and not sit back. Old habits die hard at times, it seems.

Dalpe needs more playing time. I wouldn't mind him on the 3rd line. He has skill the team could use.

Would like to see him given more playing time as well. I thought he played well in the limited minutes he got and they could use his skill higher up the lineup. With his skating and playmaking abilities he could look good alongside Kesler. I wouldn't mind seeing:

Sedin-Sedin-Booth
Higgins-Kesler-Dalpe
Hansen-Santorelli-Weise
Richardson-Welsh-Kassian

Either way they've got to start using their 4th line more to spell the top guys and I think this allows them to do that given the injuries they have right now. Not a fan of Sestito having played every game so far this year.

 

[tantalum]

A few notes;

Weise is playing the type of game that we all wish Kassian would play.
Hansen has hands of stone, I know people like him - i don't.
The SOG counter missed a few on Luongo, probably Smith too
The time Kesler really shoulda shot (the 2 on 1), he didn't
Didn't notice Alberts - which was good. Didn't notice Edler, which was also good
The Canucks came completely unglued after the first goal, the second goal was saddingly predictable

Just want to point out that unlike hits and that sort of thing, every SOG or potential SOG is reviewed by the NHL. The shots in the boxscore are the shots that happened.

 

[Scurr]

I like Torts more by the day. He was hard on himself, all the coaches and the team in the presser... accountability all around. As a coach, you can't just keep saying "the players just don't get it!"... it's your job to make them get it. Good on Torts for holding himself accountable as well.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Hansen showed much better hands last year. I'm not sure what happened.

Henrik's goal might be my favorite moment of the season so far.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

6 teams in the NHL are at 3.00 G/G or higher. 3 goals for on average is attainable in spurts, but over the entire sample that average is high end. Close to 2 goals against on average is also high end the other way, with 1 goal against attainable in spurts. The problem is that based on past samples, the Canucks are not getting enough 1 GA spurts. They aren't getting enough points from the better GA games because they haven't had enough of those games.

My point isn't that the Canucks need to start averaging 3 goals a game. It's that if 20% of the league is currently scoring 3 GF and 0% of teams have ever averaged 1 GA, it's more reasonable to expect that wins should be coming as a result of scoring more than 2 goals per game rather than holding the opposition to fewer than 2 goals over the course of any given season.

That doesn't mean that Luongo's off the hook if he only allows 2, good teams need their goaltending to steal a few games throughout the year. But again, look at the averages, you have to score 3 times more often than your goaltender bails you out.

In games in which the offense has held up their end of the bargain, Luongo has more than held up his. In one out of every three games this year, the offense has needed Luongo to post a shutout in order to win.

Lu hasn't been great, but to me it's pretty clear that the burden of the season so far falls on the offense.

 

[stuffradio]

If anything, wanting to beat the stuffing out of the Bruins might just be what they needed to fix their mindset. Still not fully a Torts team yet, apparently. Which gives me reason to be encouraged actually.

It's the consistency that's needed. We know they can play well. We just need to look at games such as those against the Pens. The previous two years we knew they could play well also. Especially against the really big opponents like Blackhawks. (not big as in size, but big as in emotionally big games) That has been the problem with the team. They can't consistently bring their A game to every game, especially against the lesser opponents.

 

[Wetcoaster]

remains to be seen. We'd crucify AV for sitting back but he's got a much better record holding leads with this team. Hopefully Torts sorts them out.

Leading after 2

2010-11 38-0-3

2011-12 32-1-2

2012-13 18-2-0

 

[Bleach Clean]

Would like to see him given more playing time as well. I thought he played well in the limited minutes he got and they could use his skill higher up the lineup. With his skating and playmaking abilities he could look good alongside Kesler. I wouldn't mind seeing:

Sedin-Sedin-Booth
Higgins-Kesler-Dalpe
Hansen-Santorelli-Weise
Richardson-Welsh-Kassian

Either way they've got to start using their 4th line more to spell the top guys and I think this allows them to do that given the injuries they have right now. Not a fan of Sestito having played every game so far this year.

I don't mind Sestito, but Welsh is there too so why not give him games in his place from time to time? Couldn't hurt.

Yes, Dalpe could provide more. I'd like to see the following line-up, and have Dalpe get some PP time:

Sedin - Sedin - Higgins
Booth - Santorelli - Kesler
Richardson - Dalpe - Weise
Hansen - Welsh - Kassian

My point isn't that the Canucks need to start averaging 3 goals a game. It's that if 20% of the league is currently scoring 3 GF and 0% of teams have ever averaged 1 GA, it's more reasonable to expect that wins should be coming as a result of scoring more than 2 goals per game rather than holding the opposition to fewer than 2 goals over the course of any given season.

That doesn't mean that Luongo's off the hook if he only allows 2, good teams need their goaltending to steal a few games throughout the year. But again, look at the averages, you have to score 3 times more often than your goaltender bails you out.

In games in which the offense has held up their end of the bargain, Luongo has more than held up his. In one out of every three games this year, the offense has needed Luongo to post a shutout in order to win.

Lu hasn't been great, but to me it's pretty clear that the burden of the season so far falls on the offense.

The offense (mostly the PP), is the primary concern. Luongo remains the secondary concern. A secondary concern is still a concern. That's all anyone has said about goaltending.

The bold up there is the key point: You have to score 3 more than your goalie only lets in 1. This is true, evidenced by team GF/GA averages in each season. However, the question is how many times more? And within static percentages, how many times should scoring you 3 G/G get you points, and how many times should 1 G/G get you points? We know for a fact that the team received more points at the 1 G/G threshold last year. Why? Even getting back to that standard has the team in good position, but that isn't happening. Edit: Further discussion on this I think should be carried onto the Lu thread. This game wasn't on Lu (First goal there could be a case, but not the game), and I don't want to make it appear that it is.

 

[Wetcoaster]

 

[Tiranis]

Steve Ott
Anisimov
Matt Cooke
Berglund
Sobotka
Jarret stoll
Toffoli

Hansen isn't "fantastic" or unique...

Only one of those guys scored or was on pace for 40 ES points in the previous two years while playing bottom 6 minutes. Last season:

Steve Ott: 32 point pace
Anisimov: 40 point pace
Matt Cooke: 36 point pace
Berglund: 29 point pace
Sobotka: 26 point pace
Jarret stoll: 19 point pace
Toffoli: has 25 NHL games, I won't even address this one

Hansen? 42 point pace. 36 points the season prior. So only Cooke and Anisimov on your list would count.

 

[Barney Gumble]

tortorella seemed pretty ticked off in his post-game comments and for good reason...no excuse to play the third period with not much intensity and play basically the nhl version of the prevent defence...team should also know by now that luongo has shown little ability to bar the door this season and realize that 2 goals isn't enough to win a hockey game

Be fair, it's going to take a bit of time to get that "Vigneault system" out of their minds.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Lu hasn't been great, but to me it's pretty clear that the burden of the season so far falls on the offense.

As I've *always* maintained - you need *BOTH* parts to be playing at the level they *should* be playing at for this team to succeed in the post-season. Right now, on the season as a whole, we're getting neither.

 

[PhilMick]

lol at obligatory "Lu has to be better" posts after a win.

 

[Barney Gumble]

lol at obligatory "Lu has to be better" posts after a win.

Nothing really to 'lol' at - again, both have to get better consistantly (offense/goaltending). Only need one to get in the playoffs - but you need both to make any kind of run. And again, we're talking about the season as a whole.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Nothing really to 'lol' at - again, both have to get better consistantly (offense/goaltending). Only need one to get in the playoffs - but you need both to make any kind of run. And again, we're talking about the season as a whole.

Yep. You need both to do anything of worth. I wouldn't worry too much about overly defensive posts about Lu. I think there is enough evidence to know where the team's issues reside. Up to each poster to heed them.

 

[Edo]

Steve Ott
Anisimov
Matt Cooke
Berglund
Sobotka
Jarret stoll
Toffoli

Hansen isn't "fantastic" or unique...

Is that a joke? Everybody hates Cooke, teammates, fans, and opposing players alike. Sobotka is in his 7th season and has never hit 30 points. Berglund is a top 6'er. Toffoli hasn't even played 26 career games.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Hay Torts,

This isn't the Eastern Conference, you need to clamp down defensively when up in the 3rd period to close out a game.

Sincerely,

The West, *****

As an outsider, I read the Canucks board in which there were daily complaints about how AV's strategies prevented the Canucks from being able to hold a lead. So.... And, I know it's every Western Conference fans' wet dream to somehow assert that the Eastern Conference is pee-wee level hockey compared to the Olympic status of the West (yes, hyperbole) but I don't think it applies here. Tortorella drills his teams on defense, always has.

 

[Wetcoaster]

As an outsider, I read the Canucks board in which there were daily complaints about how AV's strategies prevented the Canucks from being able to hold a lead. So.... And, I know it's every Western Conference fans' wet dream to somehow assert that the Eastern Conference is pee-wee level hockey compared to the Olympic status of the West (yes, hyperbole) but I don't think it applies here. Tortorella drills his teams on defense, always has.

The stats show AV's teams invariably held leads:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75694475&postcount=164

This season the NYR have a winning percentage of .917 when leading after 2 periods, the Canucks have one of .833.