Every game seems to be pretty empty though. Me and my room mate have watched a lot of games and I am always shocked by the empty seats.
GDT: Game #30 -- Wed Mar 20, 2013 - Wild @ Red Wings - 7:30 p.m.|NBCSN, FS-D
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
Every game seems to be pretty empty though. Me and my room mate have watched a lot of games and I am always shocked by the empty seats.
RedMenace
Registered User
Smith spent all of *2* seasons in the AHL; 63 games in '10-'11, and 57 in '11-'12. Additionally, he was with the Wings 14 games last season, which means he spent roughly 10% of his professional hockey career in Detroit before coming up full time this year.
That is NOT "rotting in the minors."
Oh, so those of us who don't agree with you don't know what we're talking about?
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Smith spent all of *2* seasons in the AHL; 63 games in '10-'11, and 57 in '11-'12. Additionally, he was with the Wings 14 games last season, which means he spent roughly 10% of his professional hockey career in Detroit before coming up full time this year.
That is NOT "rotting in the minors."
+3 years in college.
He's basically 24 when he gets his shot at the NHL.
That's old for a first round pick.
And if struggles for two years, like Kindl, then he's going to 26-27 before he starts looking decent, and half the forum will think he's a bust and that we should play undrafted AHL scrubs like Lashoff instead of him.
Smith was drafted 27th overall in 07. He ranks 55th in games played from that draft.
He could have been brought up to play the 5th or 6th spot too when we had depth and limit his minutes a little bit. Now he's being thrown to the wolves with no experienced veteran D-man to really learn from. We need to stop waiting so long to give opportunities to our good prospects.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Damn, Kronwall has a full NTC for the next four seasons. It'd be awesome to trade him while he still has good value. Not digging the all rookie pairing of Lashoff-Smith. WTF was Babs thinking there? That was complete and utter FAIL.
PullHard
☂
- Jul 18, 2007
- 28,408
- 2,491
Oh, so those of us who don't agree with you don't know what we're talking about?
the joke
your head
internet sucks at conveying sarcasm though, i will give you that.
RedMenace
Registered User
the joke
your head
internet sucks at conveying sarcasm though, i will give you that.
No, I got it.
I got the "subtle" condescension.
The Internet conveyed that perfectly.
PullHard
☂
- Jul 18, 2007
- 28,408
- 2,491
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Smith spent all of *2* seasons in the AHL; 63 games in '10-'11, and 57 in '11-'12. Additionally, he was with the Wings 14 games last season, which means he spent roughly 10% of his professional hockey career in Detroit before coming up full time this year.
That is NOT "rotting in the minors."
My point was that he was there for too long. Maybe I worded it poorly.
Hindsight is 20/20 they say. But some of us were demanding this a couple years ago.
Kindl should have gotten a shot in 9-10 and been full time in 10-11 instead of signing Salei.
Then we don't have to sign White last year...
And we could have had Smith be a rookie last year.
Lidstrom Smith
Kronwall Stuart
Ericsson Kindl
For example.
Now, imagine if we'd have done that ... How much better with Smith and Kindl look this year?
How much easier would it be to play a Lashoff if Smith and Kindl both have a year under their belt?
We'd also not have wasted the money on Quincey and White, and we could use that $5.6M on a veteran defenseman like a Wideman or whoever
RedMenace
Registered User
I just can't agree that 1 3/4 seasons in the AHL is "too long."
It's the same argument as with Nyquist, and I'm not doing that again; we'll just have to have differing opinions and move along.
Johnny Law
Registered User
Lashoff has hit a rough patch....Babcock should lighten his load a little bit as they were already asking too much relative to his skill set.
Positioning has been so bad this year.......
Positioning has been so bad this year.......
DatsyukToZetterberg
Alligator!
I agree with a lot of what you said up until the end but I wouldn't want Wideman on our team for anywhere near what he is making. He is an overpaid offensive dmen, same goes for Carle & Wiz and pretty much any Dman that gets to FA. I see your point and we would be better off using the saved cap space, maybe using some of it on Suter last, although though we never got a chance to match the last Minny offer anyways.
Cap space is great but only when you use it and not just for the sake of "making a splash".
Eastopia
Custom Title User
- May 26, 2012
- 1,906
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Thank you.
Never in my life, good sir! You have me all figured wrong. I never said that people who disagree with me don't know what they're talking about; in fact, I'd be more inclined to say the opposite! I'm afraid you're just seeing condescension where none was intended; it was all said in jest.
Can't we hug and be friends again?
I think the three years in college is what makes the nearly two full years in GR too long. More importantly, Smith could have handled it last year, and we had the D to put around him to make it an easier transition.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Nyquist is 23, Smith 24, Tatar 22.
All three of these players should've had at least 1 year of full NHL experience under their belts coming into this season considering how highly touted they are.
RedMenace
Registered User
But were those 3 years in college mandated by Detroit, or his choice? I'm sure he was told he'd spend at least one season in Grand Rapids after college -- and he only spent two (and a half since the NHL pulled its stunt) -- so it seems to me like he's made his own bed as far as his career path goes.
Of course, if none of that is the case, I'll gladly stand down.
Did spending extra time in Grand Rapids really hurt his development? Really? I don't buy that. The rookie season was going to happen regardless; if he'd played this way full-time last year, it's likely people would be saying he was brought up too early. Besides that, who would have sat for a rookie to go through "growing pains" last season?
Could he have handled it last year? The way he's playing this year, I don't think so -- but the point is moot since we'll never know. No point in kvetching about it now.
Vladdy84 said:
I simply don't share that opinion; though I will say that out of those 3, Tatar is the one who should've been given more of a chance by now.
ashenhigh
Registered User
I think the point is those 3 years in college should have been his junior career, not another two years in the ahl after that. 5 years of development shouldn't be needed with a 1st round pick.
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
Hey pal, who appointed you as judge and jury on what the proper times and topics are for kvetching? If I want to kvetch, I'm going to kvetch. And you'll like it
It seems to me that 3 years in college followed by a year in GR (in which he gets called up for stint or 2 with Detroit) should be sufficient for a 1st rounder, especially a guy who plays a position where the team was leaking veteran talent. And I buy in to the notion that getting his rookie transition to the NHL out of the way with Lidstrom still playing would have been greatly beneficial to him. This season, we don't have an offensive defenseman on the roster who's remotely stable in the defensive zone, so there isn't much of an example currently for him to follow.
Like you said, we'll never know at this point. Although, given my incredible track record in being right, if I were you I'd agree with me
.
RedMenace
Registered User
But my assumption (and we all know what happens when you make one) is that was his choice to spend those 3 years in college; if Detroit told him he'd spend at least 1 in Grand Rapids and he spent 1 extra, that's 1 year on Detroit and 4 on Smith.*
Besides, do you honestly think the Wings "held him back" for any reason other than they didn't think he was ready?
*Of course, this is all just speculation on my part, because I wasn't privy to any of those conversations.
Brick Top said:Hey pal, who appointed you as judge and jury on what the proper times and topics are for kvetching? If I want to kvetch, I'm going to kvetch. And you'll like it
Hey, I just gave my opinion on the topic and timing of said kvetching, not say that anyone else could or couldn't kvetch about it. If you'd like to kvetch, then kvetch away, good sir.
I understand that perspective, but let's be reality here: He wasn't going to play directly with Lidstrom much, if at all, and he did spend 14 games and an even larger amount of practice time with the Wings (which likely would have been more had he not been suspended); so to say he didn't get any time with Lidstrom still playing is a little misleading. We also can't say whether or not it was "quality" time -- only Brendan Smith knows for sure.
Let's be reality again: He's likely not going to be Lidstrom v2, and he needs to find his own game. Trying to live up to any standard that lofty is going to amount in nothing but failure... and talk about stunting development. He knows how to play the game, and he has the tools; why people seem to think there wasn't going to be any sort of "rough patch" with his rookie season -- regardless of how old he was when it happened -- is beyond me.
Besides, if there was ever a good year for a young defenseman to have "growing pains," this was it.
Like you said, we'll never know at this point. Although, given my incredible track record in being right, if I were you I'd agree with me
Well now I'm automatically inclined to never agree with you again.
Smith will be fine. Like I said, he's got all of the the tools and the head for the game. Give it a little time...
... or don't, if you don't want to; it's up to you of course. Don't let me tell you how to spend your kvetching time.
As good as Suter and Parise are, the wings could not have afforded to have those guys on those extreme deals.
Red Wings are already in trouble in 4-5 years when Franzen. Z and Kronwall quit.
Is this a thing? Being reality? Never heard it before.
In any case, it's strange that you think the only way you could learn from a player is to be on a line with him. Do you think Datsyuk picked up nothing from Yzerman, Shanahan, Larionov, Fedorov?
Every time Smith would have made a mistake, Lids would be on the bench helping him to understand what he should have done instead.
The process of learning the game goes beyond playing time with a player like Lidstrom. Smith could have learned from Lidstrom in the following ways, off the top of my head;
-Working out with him; learning what Lidstrom does/did to stay in the shape he did
-Pick his brain. Ask Lidstrom to go over tape with you. What should I be working on? What do you see I was doing well? Most importantly, what can I work on right now to improve my game instantly?
-Ask what adjustments he should make in the game during intermission
-Working out with him; learning what Lidstrom does/did to stay in the shape he did
-Pick his brain. Ask Lidstrom to go over tape with you. What should I be working on? What do you see I was doing well? Most importantly, what can I work on right now to improve my game instantly?
-Ask what adjustments he should make in the game during intermission
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
That's a complicated concept for the Wings, though... I think they tend to hold their young talent back as much or more because they over-value loyalty to their vets and REALLY don't trust young guys in general rather than the player not being ready.
That, or it's possible that the trust level afforded to young guys is directly proportional to their physical size... that would explain a LOT
.Look at Tatar this year, and how he performed on the 3rd line- he was effective and pretty much the lone offensive threat in the bottom 6. Instead of making room to keep him up, he's demoted to GR, the bottom 6 goes back to being a non-threat to score for the most part, and the offensive pressure is completely back on the top 2 lines. And Z's line is pretty inconsistent, while Datysuk is still dragging Justin "sing us a song, you're the Piano Man" Abdelkader around the ice.
Hey, I just gave my opinion on the topic and timing of said kvetching, not say that anyone else could or couldn't kvetch about it. If you'd like to kvetch, then kvetch away, good sir.
Well, okay then. Just letting you know that when someone tries to limit my kvetching, it's go time
Even if Smith wasn't paired with Lidstrom extensively, watching Nick operate from the bench would probably benefit his game more than watching Doug Janik from the Griffins' bench. And I totally agree that he has to find his own game on the ice- he'll clearly be more physical and play a meaner game than Nick, which I look forward to seeing. I just think there's a lot he could have picked up from Lidstrom on defensive positioning, outlet passes, decision making and QB'ing the PP at the NHL level.
Like all rookies, he was definitely going to struggle in his first full year. I just think it would have been much more beneficial to his career (and to the Wings defense) if he went through those struggles with better teammates on defense around him. He'd have been a year more experienced heading into this season, and been easier for Babs to trust on the ice.
Of course, there's always the possibility that he won't live up to his 1st round pick status, and only turn out to be a 2nd/3rd pairing tweener who never really picks how to play competently in his own zone... that would suck.
