GDT: Game 30 | Senators @ Oilers | 7th time's the charm? | Fri March 12th 9PM | RDS, TSN5

FormentonTheFuture

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Sep 29, 2017
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Problem is these players will mostly be who they are now.

Other than Chabot and Zub, the defense all have glaring holes in their games, none are particularly young, so the rest will not get better than maybe serviceable 3rd pair fodder.

Tkachuk does some great things, Stutzle has the attributes to do many things well, Nick Paul and Connor Brown do a good 3rd line job, Auston Watson is a solid 4th liner and Dzingel can be rerasonable as a 3rd or 4th liner. Dadonov has proven he can be a good top 6 complimentary player, IF his linemates are talented puck possession guys, which he is not.

The rest of the forwards have glaring weaknesses, and even the young guys seem unlikely to progress too much higher. Batherson scored 6 games straight, but maybe 4 of the 6 were mop up plays, and he hasn't driven much play. White is so-so but will never control play. Norris doesn't drive play and doesn't look like his skill set will take off at this level. Tierney and the rest are below average.

That makes 4 defensemen and 5 forwards in need of a serious upgrade just to match other reasonably good teams, and at least 3 of those forwards will need to be top caliber before this team sniffs a chance to win every night.

The GM is too inept to get these players via trade, some promising players have already been drafted, but 9 upgrades will be years away and we'll be lucky to see any free agents of substance will come in. Losing trade after trade was a real killer. These last 2 games were a harsh reality check.
What? I don’t think it’s accurate at all to say that brannstrom, Batherson, and Norris won’t improve, and significantly at that. You’re really selling Norris short or not being patient. He’s played 30 nhl games. Batherson is basically a rookie as well, his upside is 70+ points. These guys are inconsistent because they are brand new to the league.
 

IlTerrifico

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Oct 24, 2016
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What? I don’t think it’s accurate at all to say that brannstrom, Batherson, and Norris won’t improve, and significantly at that. You’re really selling Norris short or not being patient. He’s played 30 nhl games. Batherson is basically a rookie as well, his upside is 70+ points. These guys are inconsistent because they are brand new to the league.

Brannstrom will always be too small to overcome it with slightly above average skills.

Batherson MAY be a top 6 but needs to show many more positive attributes to his game, and Norris just doesn't excel at any crucial top 6 skills, and will be a tweener.
Development guys like Zibby always showed flashes of game star abilities in their early years that makes it obvious what could be. I don't see it in this crop. Hope I'm wrong.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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And the more I think of it the more it pisses me off. I'm not blaming you for anything (unless you're Pierre Dorion). But I am going to point out that you endlessly promote a big tough team. Precisely what we iced tonight.

6-2 loss.

So if you want to call my critique a "shit attempt to tie you to the big players that suck this year", I'll say I don't need to tie you to anything. You've tied yourself to big players who suck, and it isn't just this year.

Buddy Robinson
Derek Grant
Jakub Culek
David Dziurzynski
Michael Sdao


and the list goes on.

I'd say you have a "shit philosophy on how hockey is played in the 21st century".
Then I'll take credit for the big guys that succeed, the two leading scorers on this team are big. There have been a number of big heavy teams that have succeeded, but they have to be good players & a good team, nobody is saying that any big player will do, all the guys you mentioned I thought could be decent 4th line players not 1st liners, so what? There have been plenty of skilled players that have come through here that sucked too, that's why they are a last place team, it's not just the 4th line's fault or the 6th D, goaltending has been terrible this yr too. Lots of blame to go around with this team from top to bottom.
 

Alf Silfversson

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Jun 8, 2011
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Then I'll take credit for the big guys that succeed, the two leading scorers on this team are big. There have been a number of big heavy teams that have succeeded, but they have to be good players & a good team, nobody is saying that any big player will do, all the guys you mentioned I thought could be decent 4th line players not 1st liners, so what? There have been plenty of skilled players that have come through here that sucked too, that's why they are a last place team, it's not just the 4th line's fault or the 6th D, goaltending has been terrible this yr too. Lots of blame to go around with this team from top to bottom.

Ya see, I like good big players too. I just like good players. I just don't think that a good player should ever be described first and foremost as a "big player".

You just like big players. For years you insisted that Pageau was not an NHL player for no apparent reason other than he was 5'9. I would never say that Artem Zub is not an NHL player because he's 6'2 .

That's the difference.
 

FormentonTheFuture

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Sep 29, 2017
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Brannstrom will always be too small to overcome it with slightly above average skills.

Batherson MAY be a top 6 but needs to show many more positive attributes to his game, and Norris just doesn't excel at any crucial top 6 skills, and will be a tweener.
Development guys like Zibby always showed flashes of game star abilities in their early years that makes it obvious what could be. I don't see it in this crop. Hope I'm wrong.
Batherson on pace for 52 points with no elite centre to play with. He’s already a top 6, no “may” about it. He does leave you wanting more but i I think he’ll easily be a top line offensive stud. He’s shown just as much if not more than a guy like Stone at the same age, for example

norris on pace for 41 points as rookie. I don’t think anyone said he’ll be a star but he has solid 60 point, two way upside in my opinion. Plays a lot like Kyle turris. Definitely see him as a second line centre for years to come. He’s inconsistent as expected. Was dominant in the ahl and has excellent finishing ability and fitness level. To say that he is what he is at 21 is very strange.

brannstrom has shown the least but is extremely young and has smarts and talent. He’ll take a lot more time. I don’t think he’s guaranteed to stick around in Ottawa though.

I really think you’re underselling some of these guys just because of our record.
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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Ya see, I like good big players too. I just like good players. I just don't think that a good player should ever be described first and foremost as a "big player".

You just like big players. For years you insisted that Pageau was not an NHL player for no apparent reason other than he was 5'9. I would never say that Artem Zub is not an NHL player because he's 6'2 .

That's the difference.
Stutzle minus 15, Gudbranson minus 12 & he plays the PK on a terrible team & plays more minutes. Clearly Stutzle will get better, but he is costing us goals too not just Gudbranson, lots of blame to go around. Chabot is a minus 10 & costs them goals against too. Lots of blame to go around with this team this yr not to mention how bad the goaltending has been. It's the whole team not just one guy or certain guys, almost all of them on any given night can be good or very bad.
 

Rodzilla

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Aug 31, 2010
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Edmonton is such a bad matchup for this team, it’s insane. We get by against teams with solid rosters/few superstars but against elite stars we get lit up.

It is also a lot worse on the road without the matchups.

it is what it is
 

Alf Silfversson

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Jun 8, 2011
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Stutzle minus 15, Gudbranson minus 12 & he plays the PK on a terrible team & plays more minutes. Clearly Stutzle will get better, but he is costing us goals too not just Gudbranson, lots of blame to go around. Chabot is a minus 10 & costs them goals against too. Lots of blame to go around with this team this yr not to mention how bad the goaltending has been. It's the whole team not just one guy or certain guys, almost all of them on any given night can be good or very bad.

Yeah. The whole team has been bad. It's why many are blaming the GM and coach.

But WHEN we win a game do you really think it's Gudbranson, Watson and other 3rd pairing and 4th line forwards driving that bus?

THAT is why the top six players get less grief. Because they occasionally win us games.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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Yeah. The whole team has been bad. It's why many are blaming the GM and coach.

But WHEN we win a game do you really think it's Gudbranson, Watson and other 3rd pairing and 4th line forwards driving that bus?

THAT is why the top six players get less grief. Because they occasionally win us games.
Montreal got bigger in the off season, so did Toronto, Winn, Ott, Calgary almost the entire division got bigger in the off season what do they know that you don't?
 

Alf Silfversson

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Jun 8, 2011
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Montreal got bigger in the off season, so did Toronto, Winn, Ott, Calgary almost the entire division got bigger in the off season what do they know that you don't?

We're the biggest team (tied with the Jets) in the division.

What do I and everyone else know that you don't?
 

Alf Silfversson

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Jun 8, 2011
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That some of the players PD signed were over the hill & not that good.

Gudbranson is 29.
Josh Brown is 26.
Austin Watson is 29.

Over the hill?

Not that good for sure but they were brought in because they were big and tough. Exactly what you;ve wanted for years.
 

Alfie11

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Feb 23, 2018
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Skipped this one as I figured we'd get waxed...and we did. Saw the score at 2-2 and regretted it for a minute but then the collapse...

It is what it is. It's a rebuild and management didn't find many players to help round out the roster. The team still lacks talent and it's obvious to me that we need to keep the 1st pick and go BPA again. We're so full of holes.

They really have to improve the team ASAP. Even though the teardown just finished last year, the Sens haven't been competitive since the conference finals run. I don't know how much more the fans can take before giving up on the team or the young players wanting out. The team is just too bad and there's little real sense of progress.
 
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Answer

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Dec 17, 2006
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Stützle hasn't done much? He generated a goal today and is the future of this team. I love Tkachuk but he hadn't scored in 6 games until tonight when when Stü set him up. I don
t see you criticizing him.

Dadonov? Hasn't been as good as he should. But he has 8 goals; it's not ideal but he HAS contributed.

Tierney can get lost as far as I'm concerned. He's an average player who can be easily replaced.

Norris is an overwhelmed rookie. He'll get better.

C. Brown has played great all season. Defensively responsible, pushes the pace, gets the puck to the other team's net and generates chances. It sucks he can't finish but that's why he's a 3.5M player rather than a 8.5M player.

For the most part these guys are not dominating the league but they are miles better than the 6th D and 4th line Fs we have on our team.

If you can't see why fans like them less than Chabot, Tkachuk, Stützle and company then....well, I don't know what to tell you.

I am pretty sure you're not allowed to Criticize Tkachuk.

All I want to genuinely know is, what 8-10 million intangibles Tkachuk has been bringing in these 7 games against Oilers, and also 3 games against Canucks, this year?

It's also a proven fact that he doesn't really generate much offensive chances either, especially for his linemates.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
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Garrioch with another postgame gem: Are you okay with your team if they’re putting in 100% effort?

To get past the half way Mark of the season and have to re-sell the fact that the team is working hard is bad. That’s what they sold in pre-season, so to listen to them saying “we worked hard” that’s game 1 stuff, not half way season stuff.

just speaks to crush of the wheel of fortune the team is under. Looking for any positives
 

Sensinitis

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Aug 5, 2012
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I am pretty sure you're not allowed to Criticize Tkachuk.

All I want to genuinely know is, what 8-10 million intangibles Tkachuk has been bringing in these 7 games against Oilers, and also 3 games against Canucks, this year?

It's also a proven fact that he doesn't really generate much offensive chances either, especially for his linemates.

This isn’t the NBA, one player can’t make the difference when the rest of the team is trash and especially the defence. Your agenda against Tkachuk is so damn obvious your credibility has been shot a while ago dude
 

c_mak

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Jan 15, 2004
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Waterloo
You could see this one coming in the distance but it still sucked. I know they are young, need more skill, are still learning, and give a honest effort most nights.... BUT man it is hard to watch some of the bad plays this team makes. It is hard to watch them STRUGGLE to even get out of their own end. It is hard to watch the very little offence zone time they achieve.
This one pissed me off more because I was left with a more hopeless feeling that I'd had before. Don't get me wrong there are still flashes of good things. At this point this team is what their record says they are
 
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