Post-Game Talk: Game 3-Back at the UC Preds vs Hawks Round 2..

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TLEH

Pronounced T-Lay
Feb 28, 2015
19,975
15,860
Bomoseen, Vermont
Round two back at the UC, Hawks looking to avoid starting the season 0-3 for the first time since the Dark Days.


Hawks Lines
563614b0-7198-11e4-a46d-17b7c50f918e_joelquenvillstartekit.png


Preds Lines
Bitteto out with a LBI, Yannick Weber Draws in for him on defense

Wilson-Fisher-Neal
Forsberg-Johansen-Fiala
Arvidsson-Ribeiro-Smith
Salomaki-Sissons-Jarnkrok


View attachment 92239


 
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Toews2Bickell

It's Showtime
Nov 24, 2013
23,459
23,397
Something I was thinking about last night, but lets say the Hawks are a subpar possession team again and go out early in the playoffs. It would seem there is a decent possiblity that they LTIR Hossa and trade Panarin, Anisimov and Kruger to reconfigure the team. I can honestly see Panarin going for a top 10 pick, maybe a top 5 if the Hawks trade Panarin and their 1st to move up. That pick will be on the team, plus they get all the cap space to address the forward depth. Anisimov, Kruger and Hossa free up like 19m. They can reconstruct the entire team if they want to and that has to be a consideration if thats the way this year turns out.
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
187,518
21,004
Chicagoland
Wishful thinking

No one is going to trade for overpaid Anisimov or Kruger and it would be disaster for Hawks to trade away 24 yr old Panarin

Team's core is already on decline overall and you want to give away a sure thing star player for a draft pick?

Stanley already screwed up giving away Saad for scraps ,, Doing same with Panarin would close window
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
No you don't trade anyone except Seabrook. The next two on the list are Kruger then AA. AA is on a good deal. Kruger (unless he scores more) is overpaid.

The biggest issue is the cap. If it goes up we are fine and the T&K deals come back to earth. Also remember that Hossa's deal has a good chance of going away so that is another 5 million we get back.

Yes we lost two games but there noticeable improvement from game 1 to game 2. Hartman is showing he can play and Schmaltz is starting as well. We have 2 big holes at forward. I think we will sign Shipa from Russia in December which fills a hole. The last hole is on the 4th line where Tootoo/Hino will be. How do you fix it? I would start with McNeil and go from there. Also know Crow is better than what he has played and the PK will not be this bad all year (hell if it is 50% we are 2-0).

My glass is 50/50 at this point but I do see the light with this team. We are such a better skating team than last year it is light and day.
 
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Marotte Marauder

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
8,587
2,442
No you don't trade anyone except Seabrook. The next two on the list are Kruger then AA. AA is on a good deal. Kruger (unless he scores more) is overpaid.

The biggest issue is the cap. If it goes up we are fine and the T&K deals come back to earth. Also remember that Hossa's deal has a good chance of going away so that is another 5 million we get back.

Yes we lost two games but there noticeable improvement from game 1 to game 2. Hartman is showing he can play and Schmaltz is starting as well. We have 2 big holes at forward. I think we will sign Shipa from Russia in December which fills a hole. The last hole is on the 4th line where Tootoo/Hino will be. How do you fix it? I would start with McNeil and go from there. Also rennet Crow is better than what he has played and the PK will not be this bad all year (hell if it is 50% we are 2-0).

BK did you get a chance to scope out Kempny on the replay?

I think the kid will be alright but was just questioning his strength. Mostly what I recall was in the 1st period. I saw not entirely focused on the game doing a few other things at the time.

I really would like your observations on his strength specifically.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
BK did you get a chance to scope out Kempny on the replay?

I think the kid will be alright but was just questioning his strength. Mostly what I recall was in the 1st period. I saw not entirely focused on the game doing a few other things at the time.

I really would like your observations on his strength specifically.

I saw the two plays. He was not rag dolled but he was beat on the plays so my apologies on missing the plays where he was beat (yes he was out muscled). Ragdolled to me is TT or early Kane.

Those were the only plays where he was out muscled. I don't think he is weak but he does use his stick a lot more than the body. He doesn't shy away from contact but is not overly physical, make sense? I think he is going to be a legit 3-4 for us but will have rookie growing pains. Like his skating a lot.
 

hawksfan50

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,155
1,988
No you don't trade anyone except Seabrook. The next two on the list are Kruger then AA. AA is on a good deal. Kruger (unless he scores more) is overpaid.

The biggest issue is the cap. If it goes up we are fine and the T&K deals come back to earth. Also remember that Hossa's deal has a good chance of going away so that is another 5 million we get back.

Yes we lost two games but there noticeable improvement from game 1 to game 2. Hartman is showing he can play and Schmaltz is starting as well. We have 2 big holes at forward. I think we will sign Shipa from Russia in December which fills a hole. The last hole is on the 4th line where Tootoo/Hino will be. How do you fix it? I would start with McNeil and go from there. Also know Crow is better than what he has played and the PK will not be this bad all year (hell if it is 50% we are 2-0).

My glass is 50/50 at this point but I do see the light with this team. We are such a better skating team than last year it is light and day.


Since when can Hossa's deal have a chance to go away ? If he retires early their is full re-capture
.so we gain no cap space back...He must be protected in the expansion draft due to his NMC ...so cannot loose hom and gain space that way either...We can save a bit but not much if we buy him.out..but they will.not do that and it would keep cap hot dragging on for even longer than the end of his term..not gonna do that..The only out is the LTIR route based on some medical assessment his body can no longer stay healthy enough to play (which is a fuzzy excuse to hide tge fact he can no longer keep up on shifts) ..but for now he still can play 3rd line even if scoring gone ..so the docs will need to.lie a bit on not being fit enough to endure getting into the lineup and so LTIR till he recovers which will be never...We have not reached that point yet but perhaps after this year or after next year ...
.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Since when can Hossa's deal have a chance to go away ? If he retires early their is full re-capture
.so we gain no cap space back...He must be protected in the expansion draft due to his NMC ...so cannot loose hom and gain space that way either...We can save a bit but not much if we buy him.out..but they will.not do that and it would keep cap hot dragging on for even longer than the end of his term..not gonna do that..The only out is the LTIR route based on some medical assessment his body can no longer stay healthy enough to play (which is a fuzzy excuse to hide tge fact he can no longer keep up on shifts) ..but for now he still can play 3rd line even if scoring gone ..so the docs will need to.lie a bit on not being fit enough to endure getting into the lineup and so LTIR till he recovers which will be never...We have not reached that point yet but perhaps after this year or after next year ...
.

LTIR is how it goes away and there have already been talks that teams will recieve 2 more buyout with the up coming CBA. The NHL is not going to fight if he says he has back or concussion issues which is not a lie.
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
187,518
21,004
Chicagoland
Anismov a good deal :shakehead

Horrendous at dot , Inconsistent defensively , Not very good offensively (Couldn't even elevate his game with best winger in NHL and a top 10 winger on other side) and coming off season in which he faded in 2nd half

Yes such an amazing deal. AA deal is as bad as Kruger going forward and the fact he is all we have to show for giving away Saad is an indictment on Bowman and his horrendous performance
 

Marotte Marauder

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
8,587
2,442
I saw the two plays. He was not rag dolled but he was beat on the plays so my apologies on missing the plays where he was beat (yes he was out muscled). Ragdolled to me is TT or early Kane.

Those were the only plays where he was out muscled. I don't think he is weak but he does use his stick a lot more than the body. He doesn't shy away from contact but is not overly physical, make sense? I think he is going to be a legit 3-4 for us but will have rookie growing pains. Like his skating a lot.

Thanks, ragdolled may have been a bit much.:laugh:
 

tdfxman

Registered User
Jul 5, 2010
1,410
44
A buddy of mine is running this site. I love this post he is about to publish. Good news on hartman, he has seemed solid.

https://hereismike1.wordpress.com/


I think this is really good. We just can't keep leaking talent.


A couple thoughts for a Friday….

I just saw a tweet that Marcus Kruger is the only Hawk draftee from 2008-2016 who is still on the roster AND has played more than 10 NHL games! That is crazy! And that is how you end up in cap hell quickly. We are too busy trading assets to move up in the draft to take Nick Schmaltz while StL sits there and takes Robbi Fabbri with the very next pick.


And if you think about it, it has been known for a while with moving Sharp and Hossa aging that young wingers for the top six were needed. And you can’t rely on the miracle kind of trade that brought Sharp to Chicago to turn out like that time and again. Which is why losing Saad was such a kick in the shorts long term. Think about the swings and misses the Hawks have taken just recently:



Jimmy Vesey

Nail Yakapov

Juri Hudler



And the guys that didn’t work out….


Marco Dano

Teuvo Teravainen

Mark McNeil


And the guys that worked just fine but they got rid of or lost anyway…


Stephen Johns

Andrew Shaw

Philip Danault

Brandon Saad

Kevin Hayes

Patrick Sharp

Even trading Jimmy Hayes and Brandon Pirri for Kris Versteeg looks like a pretty healthy loss at this point.

The talent drain versus what we have added over the last couple years alone is staggering. Think about this, and this is why I do not view the Hawks as a Cup Contender this year…

Tampa Bay is fielding the same team they did when we beat them in the Cup in 2015, plus Drouin is now a first line wing with the talent to earn that role, plus major growth from Kucherov as he has become one of the game’s best offensive players.

Meanwhile, the Hawks 3rd line has gone from Vermette-Sharp-TT to Motte-Kruger-Hartman. The 4th line that had Shaw on it now has no one at this point you could say for sure should play 40 games in the NHL this season. The first line has Richard Panik instead of Brandon Saad, and Marian Hossa is not as dangerous as he was then. Second line is better, going from Richards – Kane - ? (Versteeg earlier in the year, can’t remember who was here in the finals, was it Shaw?) to the PAK line. Plus, is Keith the same player after his knee surgery?

Also St Louis and Dallas appear to have passed us to the point they beat us on a regular basis. And Nashville could be better this year than last year, when they made it to the final 4 in the playoffs. I am not ready to put them ahead of the Hawks for this year at this point though.

Coupled with the fact that we have one of the worst AHL teams from a prospect standpoint with virtually no one on the team having a long term future with the NHL club, except maybe the Swedish goalie Johansson. And if you believe in the future of Eric Gustafsson then him too. All of the best players, like 28 yr old winger Spencer Abbott, are career AHL guys.

Getting Panarin and Kempny were both coups for the Hawks, and it helps to stem some of these losses. And we may have a few diamonds to develop in the next couple years in Forsling, Motte, and maybe Fortin or Hino or Debrincat. But poor drafting coupled with these departures leaves us with what we have now.

I think it was Jeff that said they lost him with the Sharp trade. Excellent line in the sand to compare the team before that and after. I think you can look back and losing Saad along with the Sharp trade, and giving away Danault, and then Shaw have conspired to put the Hawks closer to the middle of the talent pack than the top. We are a possession team that can’t play a possession game. Everyone in the NHL wants to do that. And we used to be a team that could convert a higher percentage of our chances than anyone else, Sharp and Saad were a big part of that, as Leddy was the possession stats.

We are now Pittsburg. Before this latest Cup. And it will take a transformation of similar proportions for us to be able to make the most of our core and go on a crazy run like they did.

Really, Keith, Hammer, Panarin, Campbell, even Hossa, are some of the best value contracts in the NHL. Even with these we are really hurting cap wise, even after shedding Bickell’s contract at the high expense of TT. So we wait to catch lighting in a bottle with some of the young guys because really we have no other options right now. At this point any roster improvements will have to come via trade, and we have very few cards to play.

That first game vs StL was a train wreck, and if you start slow enough in today’s NHL you are in a heap of trouble when it comes to making the playoffs, especially in this division. I think it will take 15 or so games to really see what we have, but not a good start.

Here’s hoping the young guys have a quick learning curve.
 

OhCaptainMyCaptain

Registered User
May 5, 2014
22,226
2,341
Earth
Predicting a 4-2 Preds win tonight. It's just got one of those feels where we start off the season bad but turn it around eventually. Unfortunately, I think that includes a loss tonight. Hope I'm wrong. And won't be able to watch tonight, so if that's the case, please take it easy everyone. It's still super early.
 

CallMeShaft

Calder Bedard Fan
Apr 14, 2014
15,954
21,813
Predicting a 4-2 Preds win tonight. It's just got one of those feels where we start off the season bad but turn it around eventually. Unfortunately, I think that includes a loss tonight. Hope I'm wrong. And won't be able to watch tonight, so if that's the case, please take it easy everyone. It's still super early.

Reverse jinx, very clever...;)
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
We just can't keep leaking talent.

Trading away talent win the cup is different than having to trade away talent to move deals like Bickell (this is leaking talent).


A couple thoughts for a Friday….

I just saw a tweet that Marcus Kruger is the only Hawk draftee from 2008-2016 who is still on the roster AND has played more than 10 NHL games! That is crazy! And that is how you end up in cap hell quickly. We are too busy trading assets to move up in the draft to take Nick Schmaltz while StL sits there and takes Robbi Fabbri with the very next pick.

Schmaltz has as high or higher offensive ceiling then Fabbri. JD talks about Fabbri like he is this huge stud but he really isn't. Fabbri make it to the NHL sooner but that has a lot to do with where they played. Schmaltz just help lead his team to a national championship while scoring at a ppg+ rate and playing a good 200ft game. It is a myth that Fabbri is a better prospect than Schmaltz that is based on misconceptions including scoring more in the OHL and making it the NHL faster. This comment seems like something you think is an issues because other said it.

And if you think about it, it has been known for a while with moving Sharp and Hossa aging that young wingers for the top six were needed. And you can’t rely on the miracle kind of trade that brought Sharp to Chicago to turn out like that time and again. Which is why losing Saad was such a kick in the shorts long term.

Saad was a luxury with the cap being what it was. If he would have been willing to take a bridge deal then he could have stayed but he wasn't. His $6 AAV deal does not work and because we lost him we were able to add AA and Dano (who was a key piece to get Ladd (wish it was Erickson but oh well)). AA is a solid 2C who fit perfectly on the Hawks and has been a big asset to AP who replace Saad. Long term it would be AP or Saad and AP wins that so far. Not saying Saad is bad because he is really good but AP is a game breaker and that is what the Hawks need.

Think about the swings and misses the Hawks have taken just recently:



Jimmy Vesey

Nail Yakapov

Juri Hudler

This point is just stupid to be honest. Stan made the Hawks offer and they chose to go else where. Vesey made a ****** choice but that is up to him. This is not a swing and miss this is free money being a perennial cup contender gets you. House money.


And the guys that didn’t work out….


Marco Dano

Teuvo Teravainen

Mark McNeil

Dano was trade for Ladd. This is not what you call not working out.

TT (I might be his biggest fan) is 22 and just really starting his career. This might be the worst because you say he didn't work out but yet he was crucial to the Hawks winning the Cup in 2015. This is a swing and miss by you.

McNeil has not worked out. Agree.


And the guys that worked just fine but they got rid of or lost anyway…


Stephen Johns

Andrew Shaw

Philip Danault

Brandon Saad

Kevin Hayes

Patrick Sharp

Even trading Jimmy Hayes and Brandon Pirri for Kris Versteeg looks like a pretty healthy loss at this point.


Pretty good drafting record if you ask me (minus Sharp). Hayes walked because his brother and Pirri. Both did nothing to earn a spot. Pirri has scored but still is one of the worst defensive player I have ever seen. Hayes is meh at best. Healthy loss my ass.


The talent drain versus what we have added over the last couple years alone is staggering. Think about this, and this is why I do not view the Hawks as a Cup Contender this year…

The talent drain is what happens to teams that win cups. Bickell and Sharp caused part of it but winning teams have to lose talent if prospects work out because there is this little thing called the salary cap.

There is a lot wrong with your post from my point of view.
 
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