GDT: Game 29: Coyotes @ Red Wings - 5:30 PM - FSAZ PLUS

[Jakey53]

The moment he got his grinders the skilled young players lost their icetime. A coincidence I'm sure.

Are you talking about Gaudet and Dauphin? Dauphin wasn't even suppose to make the team, but has played fairly well. They said they sent him down because they wanted to get his offensive side of his game going. I think he has progressed very nicely, and is a big surprise. Not sure if Gaudet will ever be a regular in the NHL.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Just watched the tape. I like what I saw from Holland and J was okay as well. What pleased me no end in thsi game that by rights the Redwings should have won with all those SOG was the play of Duclair. I saw in him what I say last year. I hope that Tippett gives him more ice time next game. He deserves it.

Smith played very well. McGinnis had his best game of the season, I'm sure. Doan actually had a good game.

Tippett wasn't fired.

All in all a good night.

 

[cobra427]

You guys can say what you want, but a win is a win. As usual, it doesn't matter what the team does it's the same posters b------- and moaning about everything.

As usual, it is a handful of posters that have nothing but negative comments. We could win 5 straight and the same guys would find negativity, must be their life outlook I guess. Any win is a good win and this one is really good, on the road, 4-1, after being beat 7-0 the night before.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It's not easy being Dave Tippett.

For the amount of money he makes and power he wields, you'll forgive me if I don't shed any tears for how hard it is for Dave Tippett to be Dave Tippett.

It's a lot harder to pay money to watch a Dave Tippett-coached team than it is to actually be Dave Tippett - because no matter how crappy his boys play, in the end he gets a big check and gets to go back to his mansion and play with his motorcycles.

Are you talking about Gaudet and Dauphin? Dauphin wasn't even suppose to make the team, but has played fairly well. They said they sent him down because they wanted to get his offensive side of his game going. I think he has progressed very nicely, and is a big surprise. Not sure if Gaudet will ever be a regular in the NHL.

I don't think Dauphin is a "big surprise," personally - I've been a Flippers fan for a while now and I think he's exactly what I hoped he'd be. Gaudet is probably a career grinder if he stays anywhere near the NHL, and considering that's what Tippett loves about him, he'll probably be up and down all year as DT's Designated Plug.

All in all a good night.

Any night when you win the game is a good night.

 

[_Del_]

As usual, it is a handful of posters that have nothing but negative comments. We could win 5 straight and the same guys would find negativity, must be their life outlook I guess. Any win is a good win and this one is really good, on the road, 4-1, after being beat 7-0 the night before.

As usual, it is a handful of posters that have nothing but excuses. We could miss the playoffs 5 seasons straight, and the same guys would find excuses. Must be their low standards and acceptance of failure, I guess. "Any coaching decision is a good decision. Any coach is a good coach. Especially after coaching to 127 wins in the 323 games before."

 

[BUX7PHX]

As usual, it is a handful of posters that have nothing but excuses. We could miss the playoffs 5 seasons straight, and the same guys would find excuses. Must be their low standards and acceptance of failure, I guess. "Any coaching decision is a good decision. Any coach is a good coach. Especially after coaching to 127 wins in the 323 games before."

There is a difference between truth and excuses. Excuses are usually made up to cover the truth.

So far, its been pretty truthful that our talent level (while ahead of the talent level that has been experienced over the past few years) is not strong enough to contend every night. It's been pretty truthful that the players do not execute well enough every game. But it has also been pretty truthful that we are getting better in small doses.

None of those are excuses. They are fact and when people stop trying to mislabel fact for excuses, this forum will be happier.

 

[BigJCaRoach]

"Can't we all just get along?"

I hate when we lose, I love when we win, I'm frustrated at stagnation/regression/apathy and hopeful/excited for growth/the future/"lots of try"/high compete levels.

I love Shane Doan and at the same time crushed that he looks his age. I'm excited about Lawson Crouse and Chych and DeAngelo. And we don't have a David Hale or David Moss or Kyle Chipchura on the ice.

Let's root for franchise successes and apply critical thinking to franchise failure?

Winning cures everything. Did anybody get upset at Kyle Turris or Peter Mueller or Blake Wheeler when the franchise was in the Western Conference final in 2012?

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

Give rookies more opportunity. The problem with that, is you are taking top 6/top 4 minutes away from someone else. Crouse got that goal playing on the first line last night. He only had ~ 10 minutes but also had 4 PIM.

I wouldn't want to demote Rieder or McGinn to 10 minutes a game to play Crouse more. I actually would like to do that, but then Rieder and McGinn are underutilized and our team is likely worse for it.

So for those of us who want to develop our rookies, what is a good strategy?

 

[BUX7PHX]

Give rookies more opportunity. The problem with that, is you are taking top 6/top 4 minutes away from someone else. Crouse got that goal playing on the first line last night. He only had ~ 10 minutes but also had 4 PIM.

I wouldn't want to demote Rieder or McGinn to 10 minutes a game to play Crouse more. I actually would like to do that, but then Rieder and McGinn are underutilized and our team is likely worse for it.

So for those of us who want to develop our rookies, what is a good strategy?

That's what a lot of people want to complain about, but no one really has a solution. We are in the course of developing players, but as Tippett has said, the NHL is not for development.

Unfortunately, we are stuck in the gray area of having a few players who could go to the AHL to develop, but we typically find ourselves bringing them right back up after the latest injury. Players like Crouse or Chychrun don't have the luxury of playing in the AHL, but they are thinking and playing the game at a level above that of the OHL.

Personally, I also think that we are at a crossroads on the leadership standpoint. Doan can't always be that guy in the room. OEL is kind of the next man up for the captaincy/leadership, but then who is next? Hanzal? Domi? McGinn? Smith? Our playoff years, we had Whitney, Langkow, Aucoin - those veterans could say something meaningful, but I am not certain that we have that yet. Could be b/c there are so many young players, and it will take another year or two before they fully get what a leader may be trying to convey to them.

I think that doing what we are doing right now is fine. Maybe there are players that we could squeeze more minutes out of, but there is a fine balance of putting players in a situation that they are trusted in. You gain trust by competing hard in practice and showing that you know what you are doing. Once you know what you are supposed to do, the execution of that plan at an individual and team level has to happen. If anything, we find out who has the moxie to execute in various situations.

 

[RemoAZ]

It's a lot harder to pay money to watch a Dave Tippett-coached team than it is to actually be Dave Tippett - because no matter how crappy his boys play, in the end he gets a big check and gets to go back to his mansion and play with his motorcycles.

And I'm sure he doesn't give a damn about what a few posters on a fan message board think about his performance. Give the guy credit. He got ownership to pay him a **** ton of cash and give him the keys to the franchise after coaching one of the worst teams in the league for a few years straight. He obviously knows how to get the only people that count to like him. Now he's set for life and has the team by the balls for another half decade. Tippett 1, owners zip, his favorite score.

 

[cobra427]

As usual, it is a handful of posters that have nothing but excuses. We could miss the playoffs 5 seasons straight, and the same guys would find excuses. Must be their low standards and acceptance of failure, I guess. "Any coaching decision is a good decision. Any coach is a good coach. Especially after coaching to 127 wins in the 323 games before."

You can find negativity in anything, or accept what is (Tip as the coach), and look at the positives. We were expected to be one of the worst teams in the NHL, not sure why anyone rational would be stunned by our record.

 

[TheLegend]

Enough with the "us guys versus you guys" posts boys and girls.

 

[_Del_]

You expected us to be an 80 point team at the beginning of the offseason. 90s possible if we added someone to the blue line. We added Goligoski, Schenn, Chychrun, and DeAngelo.
You and the crew thought the roster was a bubble team before the year we ended up with 56 points when other posters pointed out how bad we were going to be. Then the defense later was the roster was crap.

There is zero consistency to the proTippett argument. It is blindly proTippett. This isn't optimism and pessimism at play. It's delusions vs (cynical) realists.

 

[Ebb]

So for those of us who want to develop our rookies, what is a good strategy?

I think it is a combination of things that need to be done (pick from the following):

1. Allow for SOME different strategies with younger players by playing to their strengths
2. If a young player does well, give him more minutes along with PP/PK time
3. When vets struggle, reduce their minutes and give youngsters more of a chance
4. Quit with the "best players get more ice-time" approach; that's just a joke by now
5. Be more critical of the coaches rather than focusing on the players
6. Quit with the "lack of try" and "lack of execution" crap
7. Consider moving a player or two for 1-2 offensive-minded players (rather than claim/6th rounder transactions)
8. Consider adding a vet D-man (if possible)
9. No more "dump and (sort of) chase." We don't really have the right players for this strategy anymore
10. Work on shooting more and turtling less (give more ice-time to players with the most shots--anything to avoid 4-5 shot periods)​

I'll stop there for now...

 

[Jakey53]

That's what a lot of people want to complain about, but no one really has a solution. We are in the course of developing players, but as Tippett has said, the NHL is not for development.

Unfortunately, we are stuck in the gray area of having a few players who could go to the AHL to develop, but we typically find ourselves bringing them right back up after the latest injury. Players like Crouse or Chychrun don't have the luxury of playing in the AHL, but they are thinking and playing the game at a level above that of the OHL.

Personally, I also think that we are at a crossroads on the leadership standpoint. Doan can't always be that guy in the room. OEL is kind of the next man up for the captaincy/leadership, but then who is next? Hanzal? Domi? McGinn? Smith? Our playoff years, we had Whitney, Langkow, Aucoin - those veterans could say something meaningful, but I am not certain that we have that yet. Could be b/c there are so many young players, and it will take another year or two before they fully get what a leader may be trying to convey to them.

I think that doing what we are doing right now is fine. Maybe there are players that we could squeeze more minutes out of, but there is a fine balance of putting players in a situation that they are trusted in. You gain trust by competing hard in practice and showing that you know what you are doing. Once you know what you are supposed to do, the execution of that plan at an individual and team level has to happen. If anything, we find out who has the moxie to execute in various situations.

As usual, good post.

 

[Jakey53]

You expected us to be an 80 point team at the beginning of the offseason. 90s possible if we added someone to the blue line. We added Goligoski, Schenn, Chychrun, and DeAngelo.
You and the crew thought the roster was a bubble team before the year we ended up with 56 points when other posters pointed out how bad we were going to be. Then the defense later was the roster was crap.

There is zero consistency to the proTippett argument. It is blindly proTippett. This isn't optimism and pessimism at play. It's delusions vs (cynical) realists.

Whoa there buckaroo. Last year I figured we would be top five in the draft and this year I figured top ten. From your hundreds of posts, I know you don't know how a rebuild works or how long it takes, or what to look for, or where to look for signs of improvement. ALL of your posts point to one person, and that is DT. Take the blinders off as Cobra suggests and look at the positives. We just lost our #1 winger, and our #2 C, which is substantial, but we are still plugging along. Right now, I don't see any of our elite prospects looking like a bust, and that is a big positive. Forget about talking about DT, he is not going anywhere in the near future, but watch these kids maturing as we speak. That is what we should be talking about. The future looks pretty damn good. I bet you a cocktail you can't go a week without talking about DT.

 

[CC96]

Every ****ing team in the league suffers major injuries. That's not an excuse.

 

[_Del_]

Someone please rewatch a game from early last year and look at how dynamic Domi and Duke were and what our record was while they were playing that way, and then look at this season and tell me how much they are developing and improving. Bonus points if you can keep a straight face.

 

[Jakey53]

Someone please rewatch a game from early last year and look at how dynamic Domi and Duke were and what our record was while they were playing that way, and then look at this season and tell me how much they are developing and improving. Bonus points if you can keep a straight face.

That happens with many kids their second year. It's call the sophomore jinx, in case your wondering or didn't know. I believe all the kids are progressing quite nicely, and that includes Domi. Duke has had a rough time of it this year, but if he listens to the coaching staff like he did last year he will be just fine.

 

[_Del_]

So their regression is a sign of their progression now. Interesting.

 

[Jakey53]

So their regression is a sign of their progression now. Interesting.

Not sure if you know this or not, but all players have slumps during the year. Some last longer than others and Duke is no different than any other player. It is impossible to play at your best 82 times a year. I'm curious of where you think Domi has regressed?

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I don't understand why every thread always has to turn into negativity that usually revolves around bashing Tipp.

I didn't watch the game, but we WON 4-1!

THREE rookies had points!
Crouse and DeAngelo both had goals.
From the last few games, and this scoresheet Crouse really looks to be finding his game. (Glad I picked him up on my fantasy team for this week)
Duke had a point, and from comments it looks like he could be breaking out of his slump.
And as much as the last game stunk, we've won 2 out of our last 3. And have 8 goals for and 9 against, which isn't really that bad.
And Smitty also had another great game.

 

[cobra427]

I don't understand why every thread always has to turn into negativity that usually revolves around bashing Tipp.

I didn't watch the game, but we WON 4-1!

THREE rookies had points!
Crouse and DeAngelo both had goals.
From the last few games, and this scoresheet Crouse really looks to be finding his game. (Glad I picked him up on my fantasy team for this week)
Duke had a point, and from comments it looks like he could be breaking out of his slump.
And as much as the last game stunk, we've won 2 out of our last 3. And have 8 goals for and 9 against, which isn't really that bad.
And Smitty also had another great game.

Great post! Even though we were out shot and out talented, Tip still figured out a way to win with all the young guys in the line up

 

[_Del_]

When you are consistently outshot 4-18 because your coaching turtles and the only thing between a blowout most nights and a win is a 35+ save performance from a goalie, wins are coming inspite of coaching, not because of it.

 

[_Del_]

Not sure if you know this or not, but all players have slumps during the year. Some last longer than others and Duke is no different than any other player. It is impossible to play at your best 82 times a year. I'm curious of where you think Domi has regressed?

Go rewatch a game from last year.