Post-Game Talk: Game #29: Canucks 3, Hurricanes 2 - Edler was a +2!

[Drop the Sopel]

Cam Talbot is matching Lundqvist and then some at a 12th of his cap hit. Does that mean the Rangers should consider letting Lundqvist walk? Or how about the Kings with Quick, who makes 10 times as much as Scrivens?

Even if Lack plays 30 games and does well, it would still be asinine to buy out Luongo because of that. The Canucks were obviously not willing to buy out Luongo at the end of last season, and barring Luongo's play falling off a cliff, nothing will change that between then and the end of the season. No GM is going to get rid of a well established starter just because a player has one good season in a backup role.

Luongo is the starter. Just because some people are upset that we traded away Schneider doesn't mean there will be a "Version 2" where we get to try again.

Yeah, Luongo is such a valuable asset that no other team in hockey wants him. Think about that for a miniute.

In regards to buying him out - I'm not even going to get into the fact Luongo doesn't want to be in Vancouver or the longterm cap implications.

The Canucks didn't need to buy Luongo out last year because they could explore their options and do so following this season. If Luongo continues to play at a replacement level and makes it known he's unhappy to be a Canuck you have to think ownership and management will revisit a buy out.

Tampa bought out Lecavalier, a guy with a near identical contract to Luongo, the same age and that was playing at a higher level than Lou. Considering the 2 teams respective positions financially, it makes you wonder why they're not on the same page here. Especially when you consider Lecavalier was so happy and content being the Captain of the Lightning.

 

[opendoor]

Cam Talbot is matching Lundqvist and then some at a 12th of his cap hit. Does that mean the Rangers should consider letting Lundqvist walk? Or how about the Kings with Quick, who makes 10 times as much as Scrivens?

Even if Lack plays 30 games and does well, it would still be asinine to buy out Luongo because of that. The Canucks were obviously not willing to buy out Luongo at the end of last season, and barring Luongo's play falling off a cliff, nothing will change that between then and the end of the season. No GM is going to get rid of a well established starter just because a player has one good season in a backup role.

Luongo is the starter. Just because some people are upset that we traded away Schneider doesn't mean there will be a "Version 2" where we get to try again.

There are a host of complications with Luongo that don't apply to other starters with backups playing well:

-soon to be 35 years old
-signed until 2022 with stiff recapture penalties
-asked to be traded
-went as far as going to the NHLPA to see if it was possible to walk away from the $40+ million just to get off the team
-hasn't performed particularly well over the last couple of years


The Lightning had no trouble buying out Lecavalier because he became a mediocre 1st liner on a superstar's contract; I'd hope the 4th most valuable team in the NHL would be willing to shell out money for the good of the team and Luongo long term if he continues his play for the rest of the year.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Yeah, Luongo is such a valuable asset that no other team in hockey wants him. Think about that for a miniute.

In regards to buying him out - I'm not even going to get into the fact Luongo doesn't want to be in Vancouver or the longterm cap implications.

Or, teams felt they had Vancouver over a barrel and that they could get Luongo for pennies on the dollar, and Gillis decided it was far more worthwhile to trade Schneider for fair value. The long term cap implications are minimal, and Luongo hasn't given any indication of being unwilling to play here.

The Canucks didn't need to buy Luongo out last year because they could explore their options and do so following this season. If Luongo continues to play at a replacement level and makes it known he's unhappy to be a Canuck you have to think ownership and management will revisit a buy out.

Tampa bought out Lecavalier, a guy with a near identical contract to Luongo, the same age and that was playing at a higher level than Lou. Considering the 2 teams respective positions financially, it makes you wonder why they're not on the same page here. Especially when you consider Lecavalier was so happy and content being the Captain of the Lightning.

You obviously have no idea what replacement level means. Jason Labarbera, Jacob Markstrom, Kevin Poulin, those guys are putting up replacement level numbers. Trading away a relatively proven goalie in Schneider just so they could buy out Luongo this year and run with a goalie with less than 20 career starts is not a realistic "option", no matter how you try to spin it.

Luongo's cap recapture is likely around $2-3m in what wil likely be an $80m cap era. Lecavlier's cap hit was 50% more expensive than Luongo's, and his cap recapture would have been around $5-6m per year, so that's a pretty terrible comparison, especially when you factor in Lecavalier having become injury prone.

 

[arsmaster*]

He's matching Lou save for save at one sixth the cap hit. You need to see what Lack is capable of to make an informed decision on Luongo this summer. And why shouldn't Lack get another start after shutting the door and getting the win? Absolutely deserves it - though you wouldn't know because you missed the most important part of the game.

The goaltending has been identified as a "problem", mostly just luongo. So when the back up is matching the numbers of some being described as mediocre, below average etc it just becomes annoying.

I like Eddie lack. He's done a good job everytime he's been in the net.

I wouldn't mind seeing more too, not just because his numbers match Luongo's though. I think the team is trying to play luongo into one of the heaters he always gets when playing a ton. Give him a start a week. He's playing well, some of the goals aren't great but like someone else sai earlier, they don't seem to affect his mental focus. Good for him.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Cam Talbot is matching Lundqvist and then some at a 12th of his cap hit. Does that mean the Rangers should consider letting Lundqvist walk? Or how about the Kings with Quick, who makes 10 times as much as Scrivens?

Even if Lack plays 30 games and does well, it would still be asinine to buy out Luongo because of that. The Canucks were obviously not willing to buy out Luongo at the end of last season, and barring Luongo's play falling off a cliff, nothing will change that between then and the end of the season. No GM is going to get rid of a well established starter just because a player has one good season in a backup role.

Luongo is the starter. Just because some people are upset that we traded away Schneider doesn't mean there will be a "Version 2" where we get to try again.

Stop it, common sense has no place here.

You are bang on with this though. In fact, change Luongo's name to Lundqvist and I'm willing to bet all of a sudden 90% of the people who slag on our starting goalie now would be either making up excuses for poor performance or at the very least being logical in analyzing his games. The way people discuss Luongo in here is completely illogical. Apparently every goal is his fault, yet when Lack lets in goals there's hardly a peep.

I'm not saying I would blame the goals today on Lack, but you damn well better believe if Luongo let in 2 goals in 10 seconds like that people would be all over him. The Chicago game is proof of that. The only difference between that game and this one was our offense actually showed up this time.

 

[Barney Gumble]

The Canucks didn't need to buy Luongo out last year because they could explore their options and do so following this season. If Luongo continues to play at a replacement level and makes it known he's unhappy to be a Canuck you have to think ownership and management will revisit a buy out.

I've mentioned this before; but I think another factor influencing Gillis' decision not to buyout the contract was the buyout of Ballard's contract. A more serious error in judgement (where it wasn't just a case of the Canucks being burnt after the fact - helped in part due to "some individual" - of the recapture penalty) where not only was a sizable amount of money being dealt out; but real tangible assets given up to get that player in the first place.

Essentially going to the owner and saying "I made two huge mistakes - one not entirely my fault - but I want YOU to pay for both of them.....it'll only cost you 50+ million dollars ". Nobody is going to 'stick his neck' out like that after two disappointing post-season exits.

 

[arsmaster*]

Lecavalier to this day was on a much worse contract than Luongo's. like not close. Outside of the first year at $10m, Luongo's annual pay was $1m+ less than Vinny's cap hit.

That said, the buyout is a real possibility. Mostly because of the potential for recapture.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I've mentioned this before; but I think another factor influencing Gillis' decision not to buyout the contract was the buyout of Ballard's contract. A more serious error in judgement (where it wasn't just a case of the Canucks being burnt after the fact - helped in part due to "some individual" - of the recapture penalty) where not only was a sizable amount of money being dealt out; but real tangible assets given up to get that player in the first place.

Essentially going to the owner and saying "I made two huge mistakes - one not entirely my fault - but I want YOU to pay for both of them.....it'll only cost you 50+ million dollars ". Nobody is going to 'stick his neck' out like that after two disappointing post-season exits.

You won't see Luongo bought out at the end of the season. I'm confident in that. Despite how poor I think our management has been, I'm confident that they're at least somewhat knowledgeable about hockey enough to not buyout a good goalie who has been playing well.

 

[opendoor]

Luongo's cap recapture is likely around $2-3m in what wil likely be an $80m cap era. Lecavlier's cap hit was 50% more expensive than Luongo's, and his cap recapture would have been around $5-6m per year, so that's a pretty terrible comparison, especially when you factor in Lecavalier having become injury prone.

Unless he retires while being owed almost $7M a season still, that's impossible. These are the only realistic options depending on when he retires:

2018: $3.6M for 4 years
2019: $4.1M for 3 years
2020: $4.3M for 2 years
2021: $4.3M for 1 year

 

[opendoor]

You are bang on with this though. In fact, change Luongo's name to Lundqvist and I'm willing to bet all of a sudden 90% of the people who slag on our starting goalie now would be either making up excuses for poor performance or at the very least being logical in analyzing his games. The way people discuss Luongo in here is completely illogical. Apparently every goal is his fault, yet when Lack lets in goals there's hardly a peep.

Watch what kind of contract Lundqvist signs and compare that to the (lack of) interest Luongo garnered when he basically could've been had for a song. It's going to be abundantly clear that the market feels there's a massive difference between them.

And the fact that you can't understand why a guy on a superstar's contract is being judged differently than a league minimum backup getting his 6th career start speaks volumes.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

There are a host of complications with Luongo that don't apply to other starters with backups playing well:

-soon to be 35 years old
-signed until 2022 with stiff recapture penalties
-asked to be traded
-went as far as going to the NHLPA to see if it was possible to walk away from the $40+ million just to get off the team
-hasn't performed particularly well over the last couple of years


The Lightning had no trouble buying out Lecavalier because he became a mediocre 1st liner on a superstar's contract; I'd hope the 4th most valuable team in the NHL would be willing to shell out money for the good of the team and Luongo long term if he continues his play for the rest of the year.

-Luongo is 34 years old, and comparable players(imo) careerwise in Brodeur and Thomas played well into their late 30s. How many goalies of Luongo's calibre become mediocre in their mid-30s?
-The cap recapture penalties are relatively minor, especially with a ~$80m cap
-The reason he asked to be traded is no longer present.
- Ibid. Luongo right now is the unquestionable starter, and will be for the forseeable future.
-His numbers have been pretty average for around a ~40 game stretch. I expect him to pick up. But even if he doesn't 5.3m is middling money for a starting goaltender and that cap hit only looks better as the cap increases. He's currently outside the top-10 in goalie cap hits, and his cap hit relative to other goalies will continue to drop as time goes on.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Watch what kind of contract Lundqvist signs and compare that to the (lack of) interest Luongo garnered when he basically could've been had for a song. It's going to be abundantly clear that the market feels there's a massive difference between them.

And the fact that you can't understand why a guy on a superstar's contract is being judged differently than a league minimum backup getting his 6th career start speaks volumes.

There's a difference between signing a UFA, and lowballing a GM who appears to have zero leverage in trade negotiations.

 

[Cool Hand Goof*]

-12 for edler?

moovving on up

#norris

 

[Barney Gumble]

-Luongo is 34 years old, and comparable players(imo) careerwise in Brodeur and Thomas played well into their late 30s. How many goalies of Luongo's calibre become mediocre in their mid-30s?

Helps that he really hasn't gone thru any really major injuries in his career; and his "workload" has decreased from his days where he played something like 70 games a reason.

-12 for edler?

moovving on up

#norris

I remember when Malik won the +/- award (Emery Edge award?) one year on the Canucks (co-winner). Slats was so impressed, he 'signed him away from the Canucks' on a fairly big money contract. He layed an egg for the Rangers.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Unless he retires while being owed almost $7M a season still, that's impossible. These are the only realistic options depending on when he retires:

2018: $3.6M for 4 years
2019: $4.1M for 3 years
2020: $4.3M for 2 years
2021: $4.3M for 1 year

So apparently him being willing to nullify his contract with tens of millions left is plausible, but not him retiring at age 38? If Luongo's play has declined then I think professional pride would make him retire. We could even make him ride the pine if we wanted to and he were too reluctant to retire. I think him retiring at 38-39 is the most likely scenario, then again, he may pull a Marty or a Thomas and continue playing well even in his 40s. We're seeing more often goalies recently playing well until a later age.

We might even trade him to Florida for future considerations as a veteran backup to finish his career to help them reach the cap floor. I'm not worried about what happens 5 years down the road, it's far from the end of the world.

 

[RobertKron]

No doubt. For almost the last 10 years this team has given us great hockey.

I started watching the Canucks around Linden's first year or so. This team obviously has its issues, now and going forward, but it's still nice to tune into every game and there be a decent chance that the team will win. I couldn't say that through probably half the time I've been following the team.

There is a difference between being realistic about the team and just plain spoilsport pouting. There's a lot of pouting going on in here because they're not the powerhouse they were a couple years ago - and also a lot of retroactive criticism from certain posters where they pretend like the 2011 team was actually horrible because they won one game too few - and that is extremely grating because, well for one thing because it's a ****ing hockey team that none of us play on, and also because I feel like some people wouldn't know an actual bad franchise if it punched them in the face.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

It's just the double standard I have a hard time with is all.

The goaltending has been identified as a "problem", mostly just luongo. So when the back up is matching the numbers of some being described as mediocre, below average etc it just becomes annoying.

One guy is making peanuts and had zero NHL starts on his resume heading into this season and the other was given the biggest goalie contract in NHL history. How could there not be a double standard here?

I don't hold Jordan Schroeder and Henrik Sedin to the same standard either. Nor should anyone else.

 

[arsmaster*]

You won't see Luongo bought out at the end of the season. I'm confident in that. Despite how poor I think our management has been, I'm confident that they're at least somewhat knowledgeable about hockey enough to not buyout a good goalie who has been playing well.

The recapture penalties make it at least worth exploring unless they can circumvent that like pHilly with Pronger and Boston with Savard.

 

[arsmaster*]

One guy is making peanuts and had zero NHL starts on his resume heading into this season and the other was given the biggest goalie contract in NHL history. How could there not be a double standard here?

I don't hold Jordan Schroeder and Henrik Sedin to the same standard either. Nor should anyone else.

So Eddie lack lets in bad goals but they're permitted?

Because he makes less?

That's why I've just got to convince myself to avoid these discussions.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The recapture penalties make it at least worth exploring unless they can circumvent that like pHilly with Pronger and Boston with Savard.

The current CBA will likely be over before Luongo retires. Given the cheque the Canucks would have to write to buyout Luongo it's quite unrealistic IMO.

 

[y2kcanucks]

So Eddie lack lets in bad goals but they're permitted?

Because he makes less?

That's why I've just got to convince myself to avoid these discussions.

Apparently the NHL scorekeepers will discount the goals against and prorate them based on salary. #Cupbound

 

[Drop the Sopel]

So Eddie lack lets in bad goals but they're permitted?

Because he makes less?

That's why I've just got to convince myself to avoid these discussions.

If Luongo can't play at a higher level than a goalie locked up for the next 3 years at a paltry salary, why would you want him back? If Lack improves as the year goes on and solidifies himself as an NHL player I can't justify wanting Luongo back next season.

I wouldn't keep David Booth either if Dale Weise could contribute the same amount at 1 sixth the cap hit.

Obviously ownership see's things differently, as they are the ones potentially writing the cheque. As a fan, Luongo being a compliance buyout at this point has to be seen as a very intriguing possibility. That notion only growing stronger if Lack can continue to instill confidence.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I've mentioned this before; but I think another factor influencing Gillis' decision not to buyout the contract was the buyout of Ballard's contract. A more serious error in judgement (where it wasn't just a case of the Canucks being burnt after the fact - helped in part due to "some individual" - of the recapture penalty) where not only was a sizable amount of money being dealt out; but real tangible assets given up to get that player in the first place.

Essentially going to the owner and saying "I made two huge mistakes - one not entirely my fault - but I want YOU to pay for both of them.....it'll only cost you 50+ million dollars ". Nobody is going to 'stick his neck' out like that after two disappointing post-season exits.

Do you actually believe Gillis wrote Luongo's contract? Really?

 

[Jyrki]

Unless he retires while being owed almost $7M a season still, that's impossible. These are the only realistic options depending on when he retires:

2018: $3.6M for 4 years
2019: $4.1M for 3 years
2020: $4.3M for 2 years
2021: $4.3M for 1 year

That's pretty ugly. Might force a buyout if ownership is planning to stay competitive.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Do you actually believe Gillis wrote Luongo's contract? Really?

If Aquaman is indeed the GM of the Canucks; then this team has bigger problems even if Terry Sawchuk in his prime was in net.