GDT: Game 27: Flyers vs Coyotes - 7:00pm - BSAZ, 620AM

[Baby Doaner]

We need to dress boko. Someone that would give a crap. This team has just died and doesn’t care anymore.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I think we all agree the overall talent level isnt sufficient for even 50 points. If thats all the Coyotes can do, ok, but I think the coaching needs to take account of what the team can do and what they cant do, and instruct and coach accordingly.
It would seem to me that in such a situation, avoiding making mistakes like
- cross ice passes by the goalie
- rookie defenseman trying to dangle up the middle
- tripping penalties in the O zone
would be paramount.

Note, avoiding these type of bonehead plays doesn't mean playing dump & chase, and it is silly to suggest otherwise.
Thus I am concluding the coaching is poor.
And you folks that think otherwise, imho, are in denial or deluded or both

The fact that you think these are solely on the coach and not the players is incredibly baffling and makes no sense. If you really think that Tourigney hasn't said "Hey guys, make sure not to take penalties in the O-zone" at some point, something so obviously a bad thing to do, then I don't even know what to make of your comments.

 

[BAdvocate]

First game I was impressed with Dineen. Not saying he'll ever be a regular, but with a long leash, at least he'll have a chance.

A player, who along with many others past and present, would never be given a chance to learn on the job in the NHL by Tocchet or Tippett.

Neither of which were likely ever given the freedom (I suspect Tippett wouldn't have taken even if offered) AT seemingly has to try and play an exciting brand of hockey, despite not having the players to pull it off, without having to worry about keeping his job.

Similar to the Canucks, with Travis Green playing the role of Tippett/Tocchet and now Boudreau coming in much like AT, and looking to play exciting hockey at the expense of defense....1 big difference obviously as they have the players to pull it off.

 

[LittlePipes]

The fact that you think these are solely on the coach and not the players is incredibly baffling and makes no sense. If you really think that Tourigney hasn't said "Hey guys, make sure not to take penalties in the O-zone" at some point, something so obviously a bad thing to do, then I don't even know what to make of your comments.

The players obviously arent getting the message. A good coach knows how to get the players to listen and play accordingly. This isnt happening with the Coyote players. Thus AT aint getting it done. You claiming that AT is a victim of the players poor skills or whatever is the quick road to ruin. The buck needs to stop with the coach.

 

[rt]

The players obviously arent getting the message. A good coach knows how to get the players to listen and play accordingly. This isnt happening with the Coyote players. Thus AT aint getting it done. You claiming that AT is a victim of the players poor skills or whatever is the quick road to ruin. The buck needs to stop with the coach.

If you give Gordon Ramsay a can of Chef Boyardi and a microwave, you ain’t gonna end up with a Michelin star.

 

[cobra427]

The players obviously arent getting the message. A good coach knows how to get the players to listen and play accordingly. This isnt happening with the Coyote players. Thus AT aint getting it done. You claiming that AT is a victim of the players poor skills or whatever is the quick road to ruin. The buck needs to stop with the coach.

I can't tell if AT is a good coach or a bad coach. It's too hard to tell with an AHL/4th line/3rd pairing roster. If we make it to 50 points, AT should win coach of the year. If we are under 25 points fire him. This roster is an all time epic disaster.

 

[MIGs Dog]

If we are under 25 points fire him

No way. We should also consider that more of our "star" players will leave before the TDL. That, combined with injuries, means the team may get worse as the season progresses

But overall, the team is performing as designed...by the GM!

Denny gets it.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I think we all agree the overall talent level isnt sufficient for even 50 points. If thats all the Coyotes can do, ok, but I think the coaching needs to take account of what the team can do and what they cant do, and instruct and coach accordingly.
It would seem to me that in such a situation, avoiding making mistakes like
- cross ice passes by the goalie
- rookie defenseman trying to dangle up the middle
- tripping penalties in the O zone
would be paramount.

Note, avoiding these type of bonehead plays doesn't mean playing dump & chase, and it is silly to suggest otherwise.
Thus I am concluding the coaching is poor.
And you folks that think otherwise, imho, are in denial or deluded or both

Just look at how much more possession this Coyotes team has this season compared to last year when they had a more talented roster. They chased so much the past several years and it was so, so much worse to watch. That Tourigny has the team breaking out and transitioning into actual offensive zone time in just about every single game, with a far inferior roster, is a damn miracle. Get used to it because he's here for the long haul, and both he and Armstrong know it, else you wouldn't see Capobianco getting dozens of attempts at the same thing because he's costing us those oh-so valuable points in the standings.

Look at how much more dynamic he's made a player such as Lyubushkin. The stay-at-home defenseman came out of nowhere on what should have been his goal. I actually laughed when they called out that it was he who was there. He'd never go beyond a pinch up the boards immediately followed up by a loop back to get back into defensive position under Tocchet. Now he's breaking out of the zone, carrying it in once in a great while even, and following up his pinches with drives to the net. This is just one example where Tourigny is getting way more out of a player than any other coach we've had in recent memory, so of course players are going to make mistakes. They have more on their plate and are being taken out of their comfort zones. But that's how you become better and that's what's going to make the team better in the future.

 

[Jakey53]

I think we all agree the overall talent level isnt sufficient for even 50 points. If thats all the Coyotes can do, ok, but I think the coaching needs to take account of what the team can do and what they cant do, and instruct and coach accordingly.
It would seem to me that in such a situation, avoiding making mistakes like
- cross ice passes by the goalie
- rookie defenseman trying to dangle up the middle
- tripping penalties in the O zone
would be paramount.

Note, avoiding these type of bonehead plays doesn't mean playing dump & chase, and it is silly to suggest otherwise.
Thus I am concluding the coaching is poor.
And you folks that think otherwise, imho, are in denial or deluded or both

I think it is hard to judge the coaching this year because of talent, or lack of. The coaches can instruct all they want but it's the players that have to execute.

 

[cobra427]

Just look at how much more possession this Coyotes team has this season compared to last year when they had a more talented roster. They chased so much the past several years and it was so, so much worse to watch. That Tourigny has the team breaking out and transitioning into actual offensive zone time in just about every single game, with a far inferior roster, is a damn miracle. Get used to it because he's here for the long haul, and both he and Armstrong know it, else you wouldn't see Capobianco getting dozens of attempts at the same thing because he's costing us those oh-so valuable points in the standings.

Look at how much more dynamic he's made a player such as Lyubushkin. The stay-at-home defenseman came out of nowhere on what should have been his goal. I actually laughed when they called out that it was he who was there. He'd never go beyond a pinch up the boards immediately followed up by a loop back to get back into defensive position under Tocchet. Now he's breaking out of the zone, carrying it in once in a great while even, and following up his pinches with drives to the net. This is just one example where Tourigny is getting way more out of a player than any other coach we've had in recent memory, so of course players are going to make mistakes. They have more on their plate and are being taken out of their comfort zones. But that's how you become better and that's what's going to make the team better in the future.

GAA GF
3.11 2.67 2020
3.67 1.78 2021

Change -.57 -.90

Basically, we are giving up 1/2 a goal more per game, and scoring at 1 goal less per game. These are significant differences in the only stats that really matter other than W/L. AT doesn't have this team looking better in any way than RT did, I sure don't see it. Again, it's too early to tell and our roster is too bad to judge AT. RT got less with more 4 years in a row, we know he wasn't a good head coach.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

RT got less with more 4 years in a row, we know he wasn't a good head coach.

Are you so sure? Looking back at his coaching, how Chayka's decisions effected the team and looking now to how all the supposed better players are doing for other teams, I'm beginning to appreciate RT's work more.

 

[cobra427]

Are you so sure? Looking back at his coaching, how Chayka's decisions effected the team and looking now to how all the supposed better players are doing for other teams, I'm beginning to appreciate RT's work more.

Which better players on other teams are doing poorly? DVO, yes, but Montreal is a train wreck. Canucks, train wreck, but Garland was doing well and OEL has been solid on D. Anyone else?

Chaykas decisions were to bring in better players sooner at the expense of our future. Raanta/Stepan/Hall were designed to make the team better now. He tried to help RT now, it didn't work.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Which better players on other teams are doing poorly? DVO, yes, but Montreal is a train wreck. Canucks, train wreck, but Garland was doing well and OEL has been solid on D. Anyone else?

Chaykas decisions were to bring in better players sooner at the expense of our future. Raanta/Stepan/Hall were designed to make the team better now. He tried to help RT now, it didn't work.

DVO is a train wreck. OEL has no offense. He's not paid to be a stay at home D. Only Garland is doing well. We didn't have the core to build around. I never understood the passion of either the "hate DT" or "hat RT" crowds. I found more fault with the GMs, both Maloney and Chayka, than I did with either coach.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Tippett was a good coach - who had flaws about integrating younger players
RT was a bad coach - he had a team worthy of being a playoff team and couldn't do anything with them, but he also doesn't like youngsters either, otherwise we might still have Bunting on the team and look how well he's doing and did last season for us.

 

[Canis Latrans]

GAA GF
3.11 2.67 2020
3.67 1.78 2021

Change -.57 -.90

Basically, we are giving up 1/2 a goal more per game, and scoring at 1 goal less per game. These are significant differences in the only stats that really matter other than W/L. AT doesn't have this team looking better in any way than RT did, I sure don't see it. Again, it's too early to tell and our roster is too bad to judge AT. RT got less with more 4 years in a row, we know he wasn't a good head coach.

I really disagree that those are the stats to be monitoring, or at least relegating those to the only stats that matter. But to still address it, this year's team no longer has Dvorak and Garland, while Schmaltz has been out almost the entire season. That's 3 out of their top 5 point producing forwards from last season. Even Bunting, who produced at that same level, albeit for a short period, is gone. Chychrun is struggling, but Gostisbehere has essentially replaced that production. OEL and Goligoski contributions, while not great, are replaced by what, a little production from Capobianco? We didn't replace our production lost from last season, so I don't deem the production difference to be one worth monitoring as opposed to watching out for other things such as the team's compete level, ability to make adjustments, and ability to actually have a transition game, all of which to me bode well for a future rise in those stats that are direct contributors to wins.

As for defense, I haven't looked into it with nearly the same depth, but it's not a secret that goaltending has been decimated. I get the impression we give up far more goals this season on stoppable shots that, simply put, the goalie bears sole responsibility. On defense, we have played up to 3 rookies/new players, with Capobianco, Mayo, Dineen, and Söderström. They don't have the size to be stay-at-home crease clearers and it's clear they've been asked to contribute to the transition and offensive zone games, which of course catches them out of place here and there.

 

[XX]

The roster was gutted so heavily and the current objectives so vastly different that any comparison's to RT's teams are irrelevant. This is one of the worst rosters ever put out in the cap era. They aren't trying to maximize wins.

Eriksson, Ladd, Roussel, Beagle, Galchenyuk, O'Brien, all have 4 points or fewer 1/3rd of the way through the season. Fischer has 5. That's half of the forwards. Boyd is the 1C. Some of you seem to be incapable of understanding context.

BA is tanking, and AT is purposefully in teaching & evaluation mode. He could park the bus and perhaps gut out some 1-0 wins (especially with better goaltending) but that's not how guys are going to be asked to play in the future, so you need to start now.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

The roster was gutted so heavily and the current objectives so vastly different that any comparison's to RT's teams are irrelevant. This is one of the worst rosters ever put out in the cap era. They aren't trying to maximize wins.

Eriksson, Ladd, Roussel, Beagle, Galchenyuk, O'Brien, all have 4 points or fewer 1/3rd of the way through the season. Fischer has 5. That's half of the forwards. Boyd is the 1C. Some of you seem to be incapable of understanding context.

BA is tanking, and AT is purposefully in teaching & evaluation mode. He could park the bus and perhaps gut out some 1-0 wins (especially with better goaltending) but that's not how guys are going to be asked to play in the future, so you need to start now.

Couldn't like this more

 

[LittlePipes]

All my previous points are / were predicated on the notion that winning games was the primary objective this year. For the coaches and players that is. If that’s not true, ignore me.