GDT: Game 24: Avs @ Islanders | Monday, November 30th, 5pm MT | No Sleep

[StLAvsFan]

Guenin's probably like "wtf man" after watching games like these.

And also, at what point do we stop cheering for wins and start cheering for a better draft pick? It's still relatively early but man it's going to be tough to fight an uphill battle against our division.

Dude, I've been hoping for losses since about game #10. I'll admit, I don't like seeing the boys lose over & over again, but let's face it, the Avs desperately need more young, top-end talent to resurrect themselves from the hockey dead, and the draft is the best place to find it. That being said, I still feel good when Mack, Dutch or Iggy bags a nice goal, or EJ skates the puck end-to-end, or Landeskog crunches someone with a nice check. Contrary to what some may believe, I like the Avs alot, and I like them even more when they play the game with some cojones (which is rare unfortunately). I'm also a realist however who understands that it's gonna take alot more than adding Bigras, Zadorov & Rantanen to the mix to get this team to the next level. So since the Avs suck eggs right now, I'm looking at a high draft pick more longingly than some meaningless win over the Blue Jackets in January. I say, the higher the draft pick the better.

 

[Tweaky]

Maybe they were conserving energy for tonight's game?

 

[dahrougem2]

I'll say it right now Redmond won't be back so they really shouldn't be wasting time on him.

No, I not going to cheer for this team to lose. I enjoy the draft and prospects a lot but it's only a consolation and distraction from losing. Plus I'd like this team to build on something for the future. Just being terrible in every aspect doesn't mean they flip the switch suddenly someday. I'd also like the team to not get blown up on deadline day. Plus there is just no separation in the bottom of the league now. Edmonton might hug the very bottom but aside from them there's about 10 other teams in similar position that we are. That bottom tier is pretty crowded now. You could root for them to lose and they'll still pick 10th. You can always root for the bad eastern conference teams to win, that never hurts. I'm still doing my misery loves company bit with Calgary and I hope the Ducks keep sucking. Edmonton it's futile to hope for anything there.

People who cheer for losses can't possibly be real fans. I mean, how can you cheer against the team you regularly cheer for?

Even if this team loses it's next 30 straight games with the promise of a Wayne Gretzky-like prospect in the draft, as soon as the game starts all that stuff is forgotten and I'm watching the game as if it's game 7 of a playoff series for us.

 

[PAZ]

Way too early to cheer for losses. I am not a masochist so I am not able to cheer against my team for 60+ games.


I did it today to some extent because the site where I very occasionally bet had a Cyber Monday promotion that gave you 2.6 odds on an Islanders win. So I basically had a chance to almost triple my money by betting against the Avs. Needless to say that they won't make that mistake again .

That said I think they didn't play too badly today. The third was a bit disappointing but otherwise it was not terrible (aside from the usual breakout and defensive lapses). Could have gotten something out of it.

The money makes suffering easier but I can't envision doing this for 50 more games.


The best course of action is to enjoy it when they are playing well regardless of the result. A narrow 6 -5 loss with the Avs outshooting and completely outplaying the opponent is probably better for the Avs than winning 1-0 on a fluke goal because Varly stood on his head.


I think it is very telling that this team needs way above average goaltending to be successful. Just shows that we are not a very good team yet.
I hope that we will get to the point sooner or later (in a couple of years) that we can win despite our goaltending and not only because of it.

Playoffs are unreachable now. 7 points out with Minny having 2 games in hand and teams like Anaheim and Winnipeg between us?
Not gonna happen.

I just hope that they continue their (very slight) upwards trajectory that they have shown for a couple of games now (atleast IMO). Also want to see our young guys (besides Barrie ) put up some points and learn to carry this team.
Results be damned.

I know what you mean.

The first game of the season I bet $20 on the Wild/Avs game. Figured i'd be happy with either outcome, but with the Wild having the Avs number I put it on the Wild. When that 3rd period breakdown came... it softened the blow a bit and I ended up making $80, but in no way was I cheering against the Avs then.

Regarding the way above average goaltending, I wouldn't say that. Just above average would give us the opportunity to get a win. I honestly don't think the Avs played bad (Avs standard). I'm starting to think if we're able to get a defensive assistant coach that can actually create some defensive structure and an actual breakout, Roy will be a good HC.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Oh yeah and let's find .900 first before hoping for way above average from Varly.

 

[Tweaky]

So how were the forwards on all those goals?

 

[StLAvsFan]

Oh yeah and let's find .900 first before hoping for way above average from Varly.

Does anyone here honestly feel confident with Varlamov in net right now? I sure don't. Doesn't look like he's very confident back there either.

 

[JoemAvs]

Oh yeah and let's find .900 first before hoping for way above average from Varly.

I am pretty confident that he will get there pretty soon as long as he can stay healthy. It is crazy IMO how quickly people are losing faith in him. He was the main reason for our 112 point season and had crazy good stretches last year. Now he had a bad start marred with injuries and we are ready togive up on him? At his age? Really?

My point was that I want a team that does not have to get .930+ goaltending to have a chance in the playoffs. I want a team that is good enough to make the playoffs with average goaltending. Avs are clearly not close to that right now.


I am also willing to cut our goalies some slack.
Yes Varly was not in Varly mode today but he still made a few very good saves.
He also could have done better on a goal or two but I don't blame him for anything today.

I am also not sure that our defensive system is all that great for goalies.
We do lead the NHL in blocked shots IIRC and there are always a lot of bodies in the shooting lane. Not really easy.

Varly has some issues right now but I am sure that he will bounce back. Maybe not to the level he displayed 2 years ago but that is too much to ask for anyways IMO.
I would settle for a notch below that.

 

[dahrougem2]

I hate how many shots this team blocks. Eventually everyone is going to get even more hurt than they would regularly playing. We were 4th in the league last season and are now 1st in the league this season. You don't win games by attempting to block as many shots as humanly possible, it's only going to make things more difficult for Varly.

 

[PAZ]

I hate how many shots this team blocks. Eventually everyone is going to get even more hurt than they would regularly playing. We were 4th in the league last season and are now 1st in the league this season. You don't win games by attempting to block as many shots as humanly possible, it's only going to make things more difficult for Varly.

We're high on the blocked shots because we never have possession.

 

[forsbergavs32]

I hate how many shots this team blocks. Eventually everyone is going to get even more hurt than they would regularly playing. We were 4th in the league last season and are now 1st in the league this season. You don't win games by attempting to block as many shots as humanly possible, it's only going to make things more difficult for Varly.

One thing that scares me is the fact that Mack is in the top 10 for blocking shots...he's the last guy we need getting hurt blocking a shot

 

[tigervixxxen]

I am pretty confident that he will get there pretty soon as long as he can stay healthy. It is crazy IMO how quickly people are losing faith in him. He was the main reason for our 112 point season and had crazy good stretches last year. Now he had a bad start marred with injuries and we are ready togive up on him? At his age? Really?

My point was that I want a team that does not have to get .930+ goaltending to have a chance in the playoffs. I want a team that is good enough to make the playoffs with average goaltending. Avs are clearly not close to that right now.


I am also willing to cut our goalies some slack.
Yes Varly was not in Varly mode today but he still made a few very good saves.
He also could have done better on a goal or two but I don't blame him for anything today.

I am also not sure that our defensive system is all that great for goalies.
We do lead the NHL in blocked shots IIRC and there are always a lot of bodies in the shooting lane. Not really easy.

Varly has some issues right now but I am sure that he will bounce back. Maybe not to the level he displayed 2 years ago but that is too much to ask for anyways IMO.
I would settle for a notch below that.

I'm certainly not losing faith in him, I know one can't just go out and get a top goalie like it's nothing. But the dude isn't helping the team win right now, it's ok to say that. Duchene got all the crap he did when he had only scored two points or whatever it was and the criticism was fair but I didn't want to get rid of him either. You can't give up 4 goals on the road plain and simple. A goalie is going to always let some in, the 5 on 3 is not his fault of course it's about letting in one too many. The 4th was one too many and cost them the game.

Of course this team isn't good enough to overcome it but I'm not sure any team could where Varly is right now. It's not like saying some years he might be at .915 and this team can't make it work with a dip in performance. He's performing as one of the worst in the league right now. The concerning part is that he is having some good games, both Winnipeg games were strong, but he's also following it up with more subpar efforts. It's easy to point the finger at the less than talented defensemen and they've surely helped or the defensive system but it's ok to say he has to be better.

 

[Iceberg]

Avs haven't had one late goal comeback this entire season.

Remember when people told us that we couldn't sustain that 13-14 season, that those late heroics wouldn't happen as often, and we called them raters?

 

[Iceberg]

So Army just gets Roy coffee then?

Isn't Roy the HEAD COACH?

This is the same PP since game 1, if he doesn't like what he sees he could tell Army to make some changes.

And the 5v3 PP is even worse.

 

[Iceberg]

Maybe they were conserving energy for tonight's game?

I can't even...

 

[katfude]

I don't get why we're so opposed to retaining possession of the puck. We give it up all the time to make a line change or "gain the zone" or even just to clear our zone (usually resulting in a bad icing).

How hard is it to realize that the puck is what you score with so you should probably not be freely giving it to your opponent as much as we do? I'm no pro, but this is pretty basic stuff here.

 

[Bender]

That was a winnable game and stupidly, we lost it because the guys were 100% focused and bad decisions on faceoffs.

I can't imagine this would NEED to be addressed, but in 'no-way, no-how, should Andreas Martinsen be taking a critical defensive zone faceoff under any circumstances. I guess they didn't have that team meeting where this is said to all but they should print out a banner and hang it up in the room. Martinsen should NOT take faceoffs!!!

Forget the completely ridiculous notion of handedness (who's the moron who is coming up with this anyways???), faceoffs were directly responsible for 2 goals against by my count last night and it's preventable, that's the sad part.

MacK is 46% on faceoffs while Duchene is 56%. Soderberg is 44% on faceoffs and he got kicked out of the circle...who goes in? Iginla at 53%? Oh no, it's his wrong SIDE...so he's completely useless?? No, let's put in the 25 yr old rookie who's never taken a faceoff in his life. Yeah, that makes sense.

This is a poorly, poorly coached team right now and I have a difficult time seeing any light at the end of the tunnel under these circumstances. This is just basic, basic stuff and if the coaches aren't going to pay too much attention to small details, why should the players?

 

[Chileiceman]

I don't get why we're so opposed to retaining possession of the puck. We give it up all the time to make a line change or "gain the zone" or even just to clear our zone (usually resulting in a bad icing).

How hard is it to realize that the puck is what you score with so you should probably not be freely giving it to your opponent as much as we do? I'm no pro, but this is pretty basic stuff here.

I've noticed this a lot too. Roy likes to manage all line changes himself. At least 6 or 7 times a game an Av has the ability to gain the offensive blue line, but instead just dumps it in after hearing Roy's line change whistle. It makes no sense. If you have the chance to gain the line and get in deep with possession, do it, and let the other 4 skaters change. Then when fresh legs come on, go off and at least the team will have maintained possession in th o-zone. But instead we just are constantly turning it over. It's not even chip and chase, it's dump and change with a clear opportunity to gain the line. This should be considered a turnover.

The Avs players should have played the game long enough in their lives to know when to change, especially dangerous players like MacK. I understand wanting to keep fresh legs, but you have to take some chances if you want to create scoring opportunities. These line changes are often momentum killers.

That was a winnable game and stupidly, we lost it because the guys were 100% focused and bad decisions on faceoffs.

I can't imagine this would NEED to be addressed, but in 'no-way, no-how, should Andreas Martinsen be taking a critical defensive zone faceoff under any circumstances. I guess they didn't have that team meeting where this is said to all but they should print out a banner and hang it up in the room. Martinsen should NOT take faceoffs!!!

Forget the completely ridiculous notion of handedness (who's the moron who is coming up with this anyways???), faceoffs were directly responsible for 2 goals against by my count last night and it's preventable, that's the sad part.

MacK is 46% on faceoffs while Duchene is 56%. Soderberg is 44% on faceoffs and he got kicked out of the circle...who goes in? Iginla at 53%? Oh no, it's his wrong SIDE...so he's completely useless?? No, let's put in the 25 yr old rookie who's never taken a faceoff in his life. Yeah, that makes sense.

This is a poorly, poorly coached team right now and I have a difficult time seeing any light at the end of the tunnel under these circumstances. This is just basic, basic stuff and if the coaches aren't going to pay too much attention to small details, why should the players?

Yeah, no idea why Martinsen would have taken that draw. Cost a goal.

 

[AslanRH]

Varly needs to make the save on goal 4. I don't care how bad Redmond and Gormley played it. How many times have we seen goalies beat us over the years simply by making that one save that keeps the game close. How many times have we watched guys like Quick and Crawford give up terrible goals, but make that one save to keep his team ahead or within a goal.

This has clearly not been a good season for Varly so far, but my biggest concern is that he has not made those timely/clutch saves when needed like he has done in the past.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Zach Redmond is 27 years old and has 6 years of pro hockey experience now. Gormley isn't old but he's now entering his 4th season of professional hockey at 23 years old. I think it's to be expected with Gormley, but Redmond is what he is. That 4th Islanders goal was simply a case of Redmond being terrified that Martin is closing in on him and doing whatever he could to get rid of the puck, even if it was a turnover.

A terrified guy would have just quickly chipped the puck out of the zone, but he hesitated for a second allowing Martin to get a stick on the puck instead.

Obviously it was still a turnover, but I don't think him being scared had anything to do with it. He just didn't make a quick enough decision.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Varly just doesn't look same. Something is missing. Berra has looked better this season, but even he is inconsistent.

Right now I would play Berra over Varly though. I think he will get us more wins right now.

 

[S E P H]

Never. **** that. Never doing that again.

Trust me, I am completely sick of it as well. Too many times, different expectations, you want to see some improvement from this core...but if this club is not going to make the playoffs (which is looking like it), its better to always get a top 3-5 selection instead of being somewhere like 7th to 14th. Only exception to this is during really deep drafts like the 2015 one was, where you have a player of Rantanen's quality be there at 10th overall.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Trust me, I am completely sick of it as well. Too many times, different expectations, you want to see some improvement from this core...but if this club is not going to make the playoffs (which is looking like it), its better to always get a top 3-5 selection instead of being somewhere like 7th to 14th. Only exception to this is during really deep drafts like the 2015 one was, where you have a player of Rantanen's quality be there at 10th overall.

We'd have to start winning at something like a .750 point% for us to make the playoff at this point. It could happen but it's really unlikely. I will never advocate for tanking, but getting a top 5 pick in the draft while letting our talent develop in the AHL and later this season in the NHL would probably be good.

 

[PAZ]

We'd have to start winning at something like a .750 point% for us to make the playoff at this point. It could happen but it's really unlikely. I will never advocate for tanking, but getting a top 5 pick in the draft while letting our talent develop in the AHL and later this season in the NHL would probably be good.

I disagree.

If we get a top 5 pick, it means one or multiple of our core players aren't playing up to par. Right now it's Varly. I'd much rather have all our cores playing well and get a 10-15 pick than have a top 5 pick with one of them struggling.

 

[henchman21]

With the lottering being what it is this year, being the worst of the worst is less important for draft selections. You could be where the Avs were last season and have a reasonable chance at a top 3 pick. At some point this core needs to learn how to win close games.