GDT: Game #21: Sharks at Blackhawks (4:00pm)

[Pinkfloyd]

That has no bearing on this season so far. You ever think why people are so frustrated with him is because they want him to gel and fit in and its not working? His last two games, hes been terrible when he should be getting stronger. It doesn't make sense.

I agree it has no bearing on this season and they need Havlat less this year than they did last year. However, getting him right will have a significant impact on their chances so it's not like Colin White, Douglas Murray, or Michal Handzus.

However, I doubt that he's at the fitness level needed. I don't know exactly what he was capable of after the surgery and it's certainly possible that he may never return to what he was. He's certainly not in game shape and to go with that, he's got no chemistry with anyone and has a short leash from the coaching staff.

Personally, I'd be a lot more impatient than most are willing to be. I'd see where he's at by the Olympic break. If he's playing at this level, I'd probably trade for another forward if we need one and sit him then buy him out. This isn't really Havlat's fault, imo. He just might not be physically capable anymore due to the injury.

 

[Gilligans Island]

That has no bearing on this season so far. You ever think why people are so frustrated with him is because they want him to gel and fit in and its not working? His last two games, hes been terrible when he should be getting stronger. It doesn't make sense.

I don't get that guy either. If he wants off the Sharks, at least he'd be motivated to increase his value out of the toilet.

Let's just hope he stays healthy this season so he can be bought out.

 

[hockfan1991]

I'm starting to wonder if we should trade Demers or Irwin, or even both. That 4th goal was Demers' fault and he hasn't been that great defensively this year for us and Irwin is just way too slow. I didn't see most of the game but I haven't been crazy about Demers or Irwin this year. I wonder if we should look into trading them to a young team in need of defense like Edmonton or Calgary.

You said yourself. Demers hasn't been good defensively? Why would anyone trade for him? Oilers are the worst defensive team in the league. They are not giving anything of value for someone who won't change that. Demers does nothing for them

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't get that guy either. If he wants off the Sharks, at least he'd be motivated to increase his value out of the toilet.

Let's just hope he stays healthy this season so he can be bought out.

The only reason why he'd want off the Sharks is because of the relationship between him and the coaching staff. Why else would he want to leave here? There's a great opportunity to win and for him to take a large part in that. I'm sure he understands what is happening. I don't think it's a question of motivation from him. There's probably a high level of frustration with coming back from his injury.

 

[Alwalys]

The Havlat and Burns storylines are starting to grate.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I agree it has no bearing on this season and they need Havlat less this year than they did last year. However, getting him right will have a significant impact on their chances so it's not like Colin White, Douglas Murray, or Michal Handzus.

However, I doubt that he's at the fitness level needed. I don't know exactly what he was capable of after the surgery and it's certainly possible that he may never return to what he was. He's certainly not in game shape and to go with that, he's got no chemistry with anyone and has a short leash from the coaching staff.

Personally, I'd be a lot more impatient than most are willing to be. I'd see where he's at by the Olympic break. If he's playing at this level, I'd probably trade for another forward if we need one and sit him then buy him out. This isn't really Havlat's fault, imo. He just might not be physically capable anymore due to the injury.

I'm willing to give him more time but how much longer can the Sharks? The Pacific is so tight and the teams are so close(except Calgary and Edmonton) that you can't afford to stumble. If Burns and Torres were healthy than this would be less of an issue but the Sharks really need Havlat to get it going.

 

[Alwalys]

I wonder why they steadfastly refuse to try Havlat with Thornton. I know it's a bad fit on paper but who the hell knows. It can't be much worse than putting some of the other plugs they've put up on his line (mostly in previous seasons). They put brad frickin winchester on his line before.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm willing to give him more time but how much longer can the Sharks? The Pacific is so tight and the teams are so close(except Calgary and Edmonton) that you can't afford to stumble. If Burns and Torres were healthy than this would be less of an issue but the Sharks really need Havlat to get it going.

They can give him plenty of time considering that it's not him that is really making a difference between them winning and losing. Although it would be great if he can make the positive impact that we know he can make, he wasn't there when they started great and they were hurt a lot more and still managed to put points on the board. This recent stretch where the team struggles that coincides with Havlat and Boyle's return really falls on Couture and Marleau. When the team lost those five games, Couture had three points and Marleau had two points and it came in two of those five games. They start putting some points back on the board and the results started to turn around again.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

They can give him plenty of time considering that it's not him that is really making a difference between them winning and losing. Although it would be great if he can make the positive impact that we know he can make, he wasn't there when they started great and they were hurt a lot more and still managed to put points on the board. This recent stretch where the team struggles that coincides with Havlat and Boyle's return really falls on Couture and Marleau. When the team lost those five games, Couture had three points and Marleau had two points and it came in two of those five games. They start putting some points back on the board and the results started to turn around again.

Burns returning will help. It will help guys slot back into a more comfortable spot. Couture is due to have an explosion..hes hit 4 posts the last two games.

 

[Mafoofoo]

I wonder why they steadfastly refuse to try Havlat with Thornton. I know it's a bad fit on paper but who the hell knows. It can't be much worse than putting some of the other plugs they've put up on his line (mostly in previous seasons). They put brad frickin winchester on his line before.

Probably don't want Hertl to be exposed to Havlat's curse.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

He has not looked good at all since coming back. Who knows if he will ever find his game again but truth be told, D.W. and Todd are going to have to decide what they want to do with him as, you can't have that kinda salary playing on the fourth line.

Could he be packaged in a trade for a Defenseman? I would say you can package Havlat and maybe Nieto and see what that does. Not saying that's going to happen and it might be a dumb thing to do, but just throwing it out there.

 

[KirbyDots]

Could he be packaged in a trade for a Defenseman? I would say you can package Havlat and maybe Nieto and see what that does. Not saying that's going to happen and it might be a dumb thing to do, but just throwing it out there.

Despite his recent slump, trading Nieto would be foolish. He's on a super cheap entry level contract and has tons of upside. We don't have that many high end forward prospects in the system and Nieto has shown a ton of chemistry with Pavs. We need young talent on cheap contracts if you want to be competitive in the league under the cap.

 

[OrrNumber4]

This recent stretch where the team struggles that coincides with Havlat and Boyle's return really falls on Couture and Marleau. When the team lost those five games, Couture had three points and Marleau had two points and it came in two of those five games. They start putting some points back on the board and the results started to turn around again.

Can it be? Pinkfloyd....criticizing Patrick Marleau!

Again, Havlat doesn't have the luxury of time. Eventually, Burns and Torres are going to come back, and the Sharks's top 9 gets very scary. If Nieto progresses a little and Sheppard and Wingles don't regress, Havlat isn't even close to a top-9 spot.

 

[Barrie22]

Can it be? Pinkfloyd....criticizing Patrick Marleau!

Again, Havlat doesn't have the luxury of time. Eventually, Burns and Torres are going to come back, and the Sharks's top 9 gets very scary. If Nieto progresses a little and Sheppard and Wingles don't regress, Havlat isn't even close to a top-9 spot.

He had me trying to defend marleau the other day. I just gave up because i was scared. Well that and my phone died lol.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

And what is considered skating hard enough and not skating hard enough? Is it not possible for the effort to be there but the body just isn't cooperating? The Sharks aren't some team where they're impervious to fatigue both physically and mentally. And they aren't some team where all they have to do is skate hard and they're better than everyone else and should win.

There are some nights where the effort is there but they just don't have the energy or the skating legs to compete with the opposition. That's not a matter of effort. That's a matter of fatigue. That's what happened tonight, imo. They had a ridiculous 3 in 4 going from Vancouver to Edmonton to Chicago where they didn't get into Chicago until 6 AM yesterday. Chicago played 3 in 4 but only had to travel to Nashville and back...plus they were highly motivated after getting embarrassed in Nashville.

It's not an excuse for the team to use but it's obviously why they weren't skating well or executing well. And even with that Chicago wasn't getting a tremendous amount of great scoring opportunities or skating the Sharks out of the building. They got a few bounces more than the Sharks, made a few more plays than them, and were able to bury them. Thems the breaks some nights but a lack of effort is not something I'd tag on the team for this game.

Oh absolutely. And your guess is as good as mine whether it was lack of effort due to energy or motivation or something else. Like you pointed out yourself, both teams had played 3 in 4 and were pretty exhausted. Sure the Sharks traveled slightly more but they did not have a back-to-back game.

I think we have all the right pieces in the team to make a good playoff run. I do not think any drastic changes need to be made. Our system works good if the players execute it as well.

By the end of the regular season all teams will all have played 82 games. If this 'fatigue' shows up then too, we will be lucky to make it out of the first round.

 

[stator]

Scathing criticism from TMac to the players after the game… "so if we go four deep in goals and assists, you probably be rewarding the white team for assists".

Sharks deserved that with their play last night as it was pathetic. They were pathetic against the Oilers as well. Oilers should have been put away convincingly.

Hawks played five on fewer offensively and defensively all night long. They scored their first three goals on mental errors by the Sharks. Mental errors piss off coaches like there is no tomorrow.

 

[WantonAbandon]

You said yourself. Demers hasn't been good defensively? Why would anyone trade for him? Oilers are the worst defensive team in the league. They are not giving anything of value for someone who won't change that. Demers does nothing for them

Don't let the hype fool you. The Oilers have one of the worst if not the worst offenses in the conference. They actually could use Demers.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Scathing criticism from TMac to the players after the game… "so if we go four deep in goals and assists, you probably be rewarding the white team for assists".

Sharks deserved that with their play last night as it was pathetic. They were pathetic against the Oilers as well. Oilers should have been put away convincingly.

Hawks played five on fewer offensively and defensively all night long. They scored their first three goals on mental errors by the Sharks. Mental errors piss off coaches like there is no tomorrow.

I love how everyone assumes the Sharks are "pathetic" because they didn't beat the Oilers by 5 goals. Last time I checked this isn't college football. There is no cupcakes no matter how bad a team may seem to be. I guess Toronto is pathetic because they lost to Buffalo then right? Or how about the mighty Blackhawks giving up 7 goals to a team that hardly scores. Nope just the Sharks are pathetic for beating the Oilers in regulation.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I love how everyone assumes the Sharks are "pathetic" because they didn't beat the Oilers by 5 goals. Last time I checked this isn't college football. There is no cupcakes no matter how bad a team may seem to be. I guess Toronto is pathetic because they lost to Buffalo then right? Or how about the mighty Blackhawks giving up 7 goals to a team that hardly scores. Nope just the Sharks are pathetic for beating the Oilers in regulation.

I guess this year is the year where if the Sharks don't win by a touchdown then they look pathetic. I heard the same thing when they played Ottawa. They are playing other NHL teams and I give the Oilers a ton of credit for actually playing well. I give the Sabres a ton of credit for playing well too. The lack of respect some fans have for other teams here is deafening.

 

[hockeyball]

Nieto has hit the wall and needs to be sent down to the A. Not a slight on him, but as everyone expected he's just not ready for the grind of an NHL season yet. I wouldn't trade him though unless the return is something we really need.

 

[stator]

I love how everyone assumes the Sharks are "pathetic" because they didn't beat the Oilers by 5 goals. Last time I checked this isn't college football. There is no cupcakes no matter how bad a team may seem to be. I guess Toronto is pathetic because they lost to Buffalo then right? Or how about the mighty Blackhawks giving up 7 goals to a team that hardly scores. Nope just the Sharks are pathetic for beating the Oilers in regulation.

It was a pathetic effort only disguised by the Oilers not being an elite team. If, on that night, it was the Hawks, Ducks, or Avs, Sharks would have looked pathetic like they did last night.

Bottom line is that teams need to beat elite teams in order to make it to the Cup finals. There is no other way around that problem, and from what I saw last night, it does not look good.

Good news is there are more elite teams on the schedule for the Sharks to turn it around. If they can, don't bet on the Cup.

Wow, elite team heaven for this home stand:

Thu, Nov 21 - Lighting
Sat, Nov 23 - Devils (I would not say they are an elite team this year).
Wed, Nov 27 - Kings (elite this year, probably not, but because it's the Kings vs Sharks, should be considered as such)
Fri, Nov 29 - Blues (start of two elites back to back)
Sat, Nov 30 - Ducks

This upcoming home stand is going to be a good indication of the Sharks' playoff potential.

 

[SharksFailToClear]

I wonder why they steadfastly refuse to try Havlat with Thornton. I know it's a bad fit on paper but who the hell knows. It can't be much worse than putting some of the other plugs they've put up on his line (mostly in previous seasons). They put brad frickin winchester on his line before.

Agreed. I've wanted this forever. Just because they are "playmakmers" doesn't mean anything. Maybe it will mean they have chemistry because they think of the game the same way. Every time they have been out there together at the end of shifts etc. it always seems to me like they really work well together. Plus, the language thing w/ hertl certainly couldn't hurt.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

It was a pathetic effort only disguised by the Oilers not being an elite team. If, on that night, it was the Hawks, Ducks, or Avs, Sharks would have looked pathetic like they did last night.

Bottom line is that teams need to beat elite teams in order to make it to the Cup finals. There is no other way around that problem, and from what I saw last night, it does not look good.

Good news is there are more elite teams on the schedule for the Sharks to turn it around. If they can, don't bet on the Cup.

You're putting way too much stock in two games at the end of a long road trip in which the Sharks went 3-1-1. Anyone who thinks any team is a "cup contender" in November needs a reality check.

 

[Coily]

I guess St.Louis isn't elite, nor Detroit Vancouver or Phx.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Agreed. I've wanted this forever. Just because they are "playmakmers" doesn't mean anything. Maybe it will mean they have chemistry because they think of the game the same way. Every time they have been out there together at the end of shifts etc. it always seems to me like they really work well together. Plus, the language thing w/ hertl certainly couldn't hurt.

The coaches want to keep Jumbo moving and not settle into old habits of being stationary and predictable. Right now hes skating hard and actually looking to shoot and is engaged physically. Havlat is the exact opposite right now. I don't see how it would work given the levels of play JT and Havlat are currently at.