GDT: [Game 2: Oct 14] Calgary Flames (1-0-0) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (1-1-0) 5:00pm MT on SNW

[Tkachuk Norris]

Markstrom is cooked.

Not blaming him for the game. But his positioning is awful. He can't move from one side of the net to the other without falling over. This team is going nowhere this year.

 

[joescores]

Missed the game, but not surprised Kadri and our cadre of veteran players haven’t magically got better.

Maybe we should trade for someone that could gel that line? I think Toffoli for Rango and 2nd could do the trick...

 

[super6646]

Markstrom is cooked.

Not blaming him for the game. But his positioning is awful. He can't move from one side of the net to the other without falling over. This team is going nowhere this year.

I mean its early days, but by and large he’s been crap since coming to yyc. He’s had one good season, but otherwise he’s been bad whether the defence has been good or bad.

That’s why it’s frustrating the team continues to go back to the same goaltending duo. Where’s the upside? This can be applied more broadly to the team itself too. Evidently the fanbase agrees too, lot of empty seats for that home opener. I can’t imagine how things look like in 2 seasons. Could be talking young guns attendance if things continue.

 

[Lunatik]

I mean its early days, but by and large he’s been crap since coming to yyc. He’s had one good season, but otherwise he’s been bad whether the defence has been good or bad.

It's things like this that make me think you just look at stats

In 2020-21 his numbers overall were below average, but he had a very good start to the season before suffering an injury in a collision. When he returned from what I suspect was a concussion he struggled for a while before finishing the season very well. The poor part of his season was about 1/3 of the season.

He followed that up with an elite 2021-22 season and was a Vezina candidate.

Yeah, last year he was bad. But he was also better than teh numbers showed as the quality of chances against both him and Vladar was obscene.

In no way is that "by and large he’s been crap". He's been more good than bad since arriving.

 

[Anglesmith]

Through 40 minutes he was an absolute beast for the second game in a row. I thought the first Penguins goal was one you kind of throw your hands up at... defense was there, but the puck Plinko'd to a dangerous area with a Penguin in position. Hard to blame anyone, really, but to be better positioned there Markstrom would have needed to not attempt to save the point shot.

Goals 2 and 3... really?

Goal 4 is a star player given too much time and space (bad turnover, but we were forcing it down 2 which is understandable) and making a play, which happens to every goalie.

Same story as last year. You need to play defence to a certain standard before goaltending ability becomes relevant. Markstrom has been stellar in the two games so far outside of the first goal he allowed to the Jets, but if you aren't defending the dangerous parts of the ice, goals are going to go in.

The easiest way to understand this is to ask: if these saves are ones the goalie is supposed to be making on average, then why are we not forcing the other goalie to make those saves most games? Where are our undefended slot shots? Where are our odd-man rushes where the pass is not taken away? Where are our cross-slot one-timers? Seems like it is, indeed, possible to prevent them.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Markstrom made the saves he was expected to make. That's an improvement from last season.

In no way was the blame on him last night.

 

[super6646]

It's things like this that make me think you just look at stats

In 2020-21 his numbers overall were below average, but he had a very good start to the season before suffering an injury in a collision. When he returned from what I suspect was a concussion he struggled for a while before finishing the season very well. The poor part of his season was about 1/3 of the season.

He followed that up with an elite 2021-22 season and was a Vezina candidate.

Yeah, last year he was bad. But he was also better than teh numbers showed as the quality of chances against both him and Vladar was obscene.

In no way is that "by and large he’s been crap". He's been more good than bad since arriving.

No objective measure shows this to be true. The constant underlying argument to this is the eye test, and that is very much going to be a case of ppl seeing and believing what they want to believe. If you want to justify Markstrom/Vladar's poor numbers, what better way to do so than by asserting the chances they had against them were obscene? I mean, if you dismiss the stats, you can't really prove or disprove that statement can you? I fundamentally disagree, but what else can I say besides saying my eye test did not see those obscene chances?

2020-21 was a case of inconsistency, but his overall body of work was below average and subpar. 2021-22 was great, but again that is 1/3. Great goaltending is in part a game of consistency, and Markstrom has not shown that. He's also getting just another year older. Hope I'm proven wrong (far too early to say this season), we aren't going anywhere without 910+ goaltending imo.

 

[herashak]

Marky was a beast this game, I’m just worried about our value brand Batman & Robin (Hubby & Kadri), fick those guys suck

 

[Anglesmith]

I fundamentally disagree, but what else can I say besides saying my eye test did not see those obscene chances?

A good way to do it would be to show or point out the Flames getting chances the same way they give them to the opposition, but with the opposing goalie making the save. Then we could say that if Markstrom was outplaying his opposite number we would win.

The reason that is difficult is because it tends not to happen most games. For the Flames it seems to be every game.

I don't even understand why though. Two players leave, two new ones join and the entire team starts having major breakdowns in coverage on a regular basis. Two seasons ago it was night and day.

 

[Lunatik]

No objective measure shows this to be true. The constant underlying argument to this is the eye test, and that is very much going to be a case of ppl seeing and believing what they want to believe. If you want to justify Markstrom/Vladar's poor numbers, what better way to do so than by asserting the chances they had against them were obscene? I mean, if you dismiss the stats, you can't really prove or disprove that statement can you? I fundamentally disagree, but what else can I say besides saying my eye test did not see those obscene chances?

2020-21 was a case of inconsistency, but his overall body of work was below average and subpar. 2021-22 was great, but again that is 1/3. Great goaltending is in part a game of consistency, and Markstrom has not shown that. He's also getting just another year older. Hope I'm proven wrong (far too early to say this season), we aren't going anywhere without 910+ goaltending imo.

Before Markstrom was injured in 20-21 his sv% was in the .920s, then again in the final third of the season it was pushing .920 again.

If you want to claim he's only been good for 1/3 of his time here, you need to look at more than just totals for a season and consider why they are what they are.

The fact you are completely oblivious to what happened in 2020-21 and your eye test never saw all the breakaways, 2-on1s, backdoor plays, and goals due to giveaway last season just reaffirms to me that you clearly don't pay attention when you are watching games.

 

[lightstorm]

I mean its early days, but by and large he’s been crap since coming to yyc. He’s had one good season, but otherwise he’s been bad whether the defence has been good or bad.

That’s why it’s frustrating the team continues to go back to the same goaltending duo. Where’s the upside? This can be applied more broadly to the team itself too. Evidently the fanbase agrees too, lot of empty seats for that home opener. I can’t imagine how things look like in 2 seasons. Could be talking young guns attendance if things continue.

Overpaying post apex players based on one outlier season and expecting them to repeat is the Flames MO.

 

[super6646]

Before Markstrom was injured in 20-21 his sv% was in the .920s, then again in the final third of the season it was pushing .920 again.

If you want to claim he's only been good for 1/3 of his time here, you need to look at more than just totals for a season and consider why they are what they are.

The fact you are completely oblivious to what happened in 2020-21 and your eye test never saw all the breakaways, 2-on1s, backdoor plays, and goals due to giveaway last season just reaffirms to me that you clearly don't pay attention when you are watching games.

I mean, I do watch the games. I just didnt see these magical super duper chance breakdowns that Calgary gave up anymore than any other team in the league (and somehow wasn’t reflected in any statistics in only Calgary’s case). Nor do I just pretend a half season of 2020-21 didn’t happen just because he wasn’t a hundred percent.

A good way to do it would be to show or point out the Flames getting chances the same way they give them to the opposition, but with the opposing goalie making the save. Then we could say that if Markstrom was outplaying his opposite number we would win.

The reason that is difficult is because it tends not to happen most games. For the Flames it seems to be every game.

I don't even understand why though. Two players leave, two new ones join and the entire team starts having major breakdowns in coverage on a regular basis. Two seasons ago it was night and day.

Well I guess I just didn’t see these massive breakdowns. The team from what I saw played very structured and limited chances against. This season on the other hand has shown an obvious degradation in defensive play. The reason these high danger chances seemed so bad imo is that the goaltending was consistently failing to stop them.