GDT: Game #19: St. Louis Blues @ Montreal Canadiens

[ManyIdeas]

1 hagdt coming up saturday. its gonna be a doozy

 

[BlueDream]

I'd say we're struggling with primary scoring even more than our secondary scoring. Steen, Oshie, Backes, and Pietrangelo were 4 of our top 5 scorers last year, combining for 230 points in 302 combined games (0.76 PPG). They have 30 points in 68 combined games this year (0.44 PPG). That's not even counting Stastny, who was a 0.84 PPG player last year (0.45 PPG this year).

Berglund's a career 0.49 PPG player, to give those numbers some context.

That said, I think we basically agree here. I'd happily move on from Lindstrom or (less likely, IMO) Berglund if we could upgrade one of those winger slots, assuming we don't have more pressing concerns later due to injuries.

This team is frustrating because it's playing well below what it's capable of in quite a few areas, but I'm fairly optimistic that they'll pull it together eventually...at least more than it is now, anyway. I refuse to believe that four 60 point forwards and a 50 point defenseman from last year will all continue playing this poorly in the offensive zone.

Well, yeah. I just meant that the STL line now makes up our primary scoring. (And Shattenkirk.)

Yeah I think they'll pull it together too but a deadline move will likely have to be made to really solidify their chances.

As a fan, it's basically a win-win for me. Obviously I want to see Backes, Steen, Stastny etc start playing better, but if they don't and do this the whole season and bomb in the playoffs, then there's no doubt Armstrong will make a shake up move, and at that time it will be deserving. They have plenty of time between now and then to try and avoid that. Let's see what they're made of. Will be a telling season for everyone, and as a fan, next offseason should be a relief. Because we will know: A.) Yeah this group either got the job done or they are close to doing that. Or B.) These guys are a bunch of pretenders. Their call.

 

[Meatball]

You'll know we've hit rock bottom when people start saying this seriously.

I thought the smilie was a giveaway that I clearly wasn't serious.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I thought the smilie was a giveaway that I clearly wasn't serious.

It was clear that you weren't serious. That's why I said we'll have hit rock bottom when people start saying it seriously.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Well, yeah. I just meant that the STL line now makes up our primary scoring. (And Shattenkirk.)

Coming into this year I would have called Steen, Backes, Oshie, Stastny, Pietrangelo, and Shattenkirk our primary scoring core, with Tarasenko, Schwartz, Lehtera, and Berglund our secondary scoring. If the Tarasenko, Schwartz, and Lehtera are now primary scorers as well, then Berglund's the only real secondary scorer we have left. No wonder everyone is mad at him for not producing.

Seriously though, I take your meaning.

Yeah I think they'll pull it together too but a deadline move will likely have to be made to really solidify their chances.

As a fan, it's basically a win-win for me. Obviously I want to see Backes, Steen, Stastny etc start playing better, but if they don't and do this the whole season and bomb in the playoffs, then there's no doubt Armstrong will make a shake up move, and at that time it will be deserving. They have plenty of time between now and then to try and avoid that. Let's see what they're made of. Will be a telling season for everyone, and as a fan, next offseason should be a relief. Because we will know: A.) Yeah this group either got the job done or they are close to doing that. Or B.) These guys are a bunch of pretenders. Their call.

I sure hope it doesn't come to a full dismantling. I thought Armstrong did a great job putting this team together. If they fall apart again, I don't envy him the task of figuring out how to fix it.

 

[Blues88]

This team just cannot seem to counter faster teams and harder forechecks. They play too slow through the neutral zone and we have too many players that are programmed to slow the play down in order to create offense, which is why (imo) we don't create too many odd man rushes.

We started this whole "lets act like we're gonna eat the puck along the wall and reverse back into our zone if we can't break out smooth" strategy last season and it's burned us in a few ways ever since. Steen is a repeat offender, as is Berglund. It's seeped into the defense as well, which is why we've been bad against forechecking forwards when the high man has sealed off the boards. They quite simply don't move with enough speed exiting their zone or through the neutral zone on entries. All these defenders have to do against 3/4 of our forward group is hang near the blueline and IF our puck carrier gets to the line, they have an easy time matching speed, closing the gap, and batting pucks to the outside.

Simply put, this forward group as a whole is not creative enough to be passing up clear shooting lanes and driving the net in favor of pulling up and hitting the trailing man. They have a very difficult time stretching the ice in the offensive zone east-west and are contained along the wall. The cycle game can work but we rely almost completely on pushing the puck back to our Dmen and hoping a shot gets through, which they have been objectively terrible at as a group. You'll never see any players outside of Tarasenko and Lehtera attempting to cut inside to the high slot or even make themselves available there. We are a paper tiger in terms of shots per game. It's a joke.

The system is constructed in a way that demands near flawless execution to work, but teams break down, and when we can't play our game, we really have no answer to sustain pressure and CREATE scoring chances. We have, at minimum, one line capable of reacting to the defense and altering their attack, and, at minimum, one defenseman who is somewhat like minded.

I probably come off negative when I do post around here, but honestly, it's the same basic themes yearly. Yes, I love the Blues, I have since the age of 5, but it gets draining year after year. I don't get too hung up on wins and losses, but how they play during each. They've had a better streak already of beating some solid teams, but is anyone confident the result won't be similar when the P.O.'s roll around. It's early....I guess that's a good thing.

 

[Ranksu]

So first game what I missed this season. Take a nap super tired and rest is history.

* * *

Guys need help, I need some wrap up how did play Oshie,Bergy,Stastny,Jocke + Jackman and Cole duo?

 

[KirkOut]

So first game what I missed this season. Take a nap super tired and rest is history.

* * *

Guys need help, I need some wrap up how did play Oshie,Bergy,Stastny,Jocke + Jackman and Cole duo?

I'll give you a recap.

Blues play tonight:

HF Blues board:

 

[frostyflo]

You know how the Blues played when the trade prosposal thread is the first sticky on our board

that sucks a lot, I couldn't watch much Blues hockey so far so I was looking forward to the euro-weekend but excitement is a little less after this week...but just a little!

 

[Stopsight]

If they lose to Ottawa I will be mad, off nights happen, as long as we stop gifting goals we don't lose.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I think Hitch needs to go... I don't see them turning the corner until he does. My opinion, but he wears his welcome out everywhere he goes. I think he's losing the team. Adjustments just aren't there.

 

[BlueDream]

So first game what I missed this season. Take a nap super tired and rest is history.

* * *

Guys need help, I need some wrap up how did play Oshie,Bergy,Stastny,Jocke + Jackman and Cole duo?

- Lindstrom didn't play.

- Berglund was his usual self. Didn't do anything noticeably bad, but wasn't a factor at all.

- Oshie looked pretty good at first I thought, still has more of a jump in his step. Apparently blew at least one assignment later in the game though on Eller's goal (I stopped paying attention much to the game at this point).

- Stastny was also his usual self. Just need more out of him.

- Jackman and Cole were better than the Boston game (couldn't get much worse) but the defense as a whole was just shaky and really didn't help Allen at all.

Overall, as you can tell, just wasn't the Blues' night. Onto the next one.

I DON'T, however, think Hitch should be fired. No way we're even close to that point yet.

 

[Renard]

This team just cannot seem to counter faster teams and harder forechecks. They play too slow through the neutral zone and we have too many players that are programmed to slow the play down in order to create offense, which is why (imo) we don't create too many odd man rushes.

We started this whole "lets act like we're gonna eat the puck along the wall and reverse back into our zone if we can't break out smooth" strategy last season and it's burned us in a few ways ever since. Steen is a repeat offender, as is Berglund. It's seeped into the defense as well, which is why we've been bad against forechecking forwards when the high man has sealed off the boards. They quite simply don't move with enough speed exiting their zone or through the neutral zone on entries. All these defenders have to do against 3/4 of our forward group is hang near the blueline and IF our puck carrier gets to the line, they have an easy time matching speed, closing the gap, and batting pucks to the outside.

Simply put, this forward group as a whole is not creative enough to be passing up clear shooting lanes and driving the net in favor of pulling up and hitting the trailing man. They have a very difficult time stretching the ice in the offensive zone east-west and are contained along the wall. The cycle game can work but we rely almost completely on pushing the puck back to our Dmen and hoping a shot gets through, which they have been objectively terrible at as a group. You'll never see any players outside of Tarasenko and Lehtera attempting to cut inside to the high slot or even make themselves available there. We are a paper tiger in terms of shots per game. It's a joke.

The system is constructed in a way that demands near flawless execution to work, but teams break down, and when we can't play our game, we really have no answer to sustain pressure and CREATE scoring chances. We have, at minimum, one line capable of reacting to the defense and altering their attack, and, at minimum, one defenseman who is somewhat like minded.

I probably come off negative when I do post around here, but honestly, it's the same basic themes yearly. Yes, I love the Blues, I have since the age of 5, but it gets draining year after year. I don't get too hung up on wins and losses, but how they play during each. They've had a better streak already of beating some solid teams, but is anyone confident the result won't be similar when the P.O.'s roll around. It's early....I guess that's a good thing.

After watching the Boston and Montreal games, it seemed that we were a lot slower than our opponents. It didn't occur to me that we were playing at less than top speed because of a plan.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are we not skilled enough to make plays at top speed?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Since we play as a 5 man unit defensively, it takes more time for us to get up the ice, and it's not like we have many speedsters as it is. Who on our team that plays in the top 9 would you consider fast or at least have good speed? Schwartz and Tarasenko, maybe Steen too. Lehtera doesn't have great speed, but his technical ability and the speed of his linemates allows that line to play fast.

Stastny, Oshie, and Berglund don't have good speed. Too many times Oshie wil make a good move, only to get caught by the defense.

Transitioning to the Euro style is going to be much harder than management thought. We outskated teams in the past because we outworked them, tired them down, and then skated circles around teams. A lot like what Steven Jackson would do late in games for the Rams. That's why the lines that aren't STL look a lot slower compared to opponents. It's because they are physically slower and they aren't wearing down the other lines, so those lines can maintain their speed throughout the game.

And like it's already been said, out neutral-zone play outside of STL has been crap. Also for the same reasons that Easton mentioned about our offensive zone play. They are simply pulling up at the half-boards and slowing the play down to a stop and that just kills the play. Perron would do it a lot and it would work sometimes and other times it would be a disaster. You have to have great in-tight puck-handling and even then, it's a poor decision that works in Euro, minors, and juniors, not in the NHL. They need to stop stopping and starting in the neutral zone and try to go north as much as possible.

 

[Celtic Note]

Since we play as a 5 man unit defensively, it takes more time for us to get up the ice, and it's not like we have many speedsters as it is. Who on our team that plays in the top 9 would you consider fast or at least have good speed? Schwartz and Tarasenko, maybe Steen too. Lehtera doesn't have great speed, but his technical ability and the speed of his linemates allows that line to play fast.

Stastny, Oshie, and Berglund don't have good speed. Too many times Oshie wil make a good move, only to get caught by the defense.

Transitioning to the Euro style is going to be much harder than management thought. We outskated teams in the past because we outworked them, tired them down, and then skated circles around teams. A lot like what Steven Jackson would do late in games for the Rams. That's why the lines that aren't STL look a lot slower compared to opponents. It's because they are physically slower and they aren't wearing down the other lines, so those lines can maintain their speed throughout the game.

And like it's already been said, out neutral-zone play outside of STL has been crap. Also for the same reasons that Easton mentioned about our offensive zone play. They are simply pulling up at the half-boards and slowing the play down to a stop and that just kills the play. Perron would do it a lot and it would work sometimes and other times it would be a disaster. You have to have great in-tight puck-handling and even then, it's a poor decision that works in Euro, minors, and juniors, not in the NHL. They need to stop stopping and starting in the neutral zone and try to go north as much as possible.

What is a Steven Jackson and who are Rams?

 

[ManyIdeas]

so am I allowed to wonder wtf stastny is doing with 2 horrible turnovers in the first period? first one he passed it to noone in the slot and allen made a great save, second one he was gingerly skating out of the zone and just got his pocket picked similar to phaneuf last year when oshie had that nifty goal.

those just stuck out in a horrible way

 

[Dbrownss]

I've noticed several times the Blues have been getting stripped of the puck leaving their own zone drifting out....under pressure.

I don't know what's up with Stastny. Adding a winger isn't going to do anything. His Elite passing has been non existent since his injury and he looks like he's laboring.

Backes looked a little more like himself last night though.

Imo...coaching is a problem. The Blues are predictable with their zone exits. Half wall to a player who's stationary with pressure already on them, try and chip the puck out. Most of the time the other team pressured the puck and simply batted it back into the corner. Hitch isn't changing anything up. I might be cherry picking this, but Gunnarsson is the only one u noticed that was able to retrieve the puck while getting for checked and got it out of the zone. I know they like the 5 man unit...but they need to have plans B and C. Too stagnant leaving the D zone

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Can anyone cite an example of a team leading it's division firing it's coach? This board is getting preposterous.

This is the team and coach to make a run at it this year. If they fall short, then you reassess in the off season. I've read criticism of the team putting too much energy into regular season games at the expense of having energy for the postseason. But then they lose a couple games in the regular season and dome of the exact same posters are freaking out and calling for drastic changes. Even Cup winning teams have flaws.....they just do enough to win anyway. The Blues are built well, but have by no means gelled. And is anyone surprised with the several key new faces and interruptions to the lineup from illness and injuries?

What is surprising about having some rough games mixed in? It's still all about preparation for the postseason.

 

[Note Worthy]

Can anyone cite an example of a team leading it's division firing it's coach? This board is getting preposterous.

This is the team and coach to make a run at it this year. If they fall short, then you reassess in the off season. I've read criticism of the team putting too much energy into regular season games at the expense of having energy for the postseason. But then they lose a couple games in the regular season and dome of the exact same posters are freaking out and calling for drastic changes. Even Cup winning teams have flaws.....they just do enough to win anyway. The Blues are built well, but have by no means gelled. And is anyone surprised with the several key new faces and interruptions to the lineup from illness and injuries?

What is surprising about having some rough games mixed in? It's still all about preparation for the postseason.

Yeah, it's getting a little crazy around here.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Especially since we all know Hitch won't be fired. Army isn't going to fire him and the only way Hitch stops coaching is when he decides to transition to our front office.

 

[Dbrownss]

Can anyone cite an example of a team leading it's division firing it's coach? This board is getting preposterous.

This is the team and coach to make a run at it this year. If they fall short, then you reassess in the off season. I've read criticism of the team putting too much energy into regular season games at the expense of having energy for the postseason. But then they lose a couple games in the regular season and dome of the exact same posters are freaking out and calling for drastic changes. Even Cup winning teams have flaws.....they just do enough to win anyway. The Blues are built well, but have by no means gelled. And is anyone surprised with the several key new faces and interruptions to the lineup from illness and injuries?

What is surprising about having some rough games mixed in? It's still all about preparation for the postseason.

This isn't a cup winning team, they havnt proven anything. I agree that people need to step back from the ledge. But taking notice to reoccurring problems is needed. Several players havnt been playing up to what's expected since day 1.

 

[Note Worthy]

If we don't make a deep playoff run this year then, okay, I can maybe hop on board a coaching change.

But nothing needs to change this year as far as head coach.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The bigger problem is still getting the middle 6 to actually score and the Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo pairing to get back to full form. It's not even about Bouwmeester's and Petro's offense because that will come when the forward lines they play with start to score, but they are still just a little bit off their game.

Also is unfortunate that Petro didn't get meaner after saying after the playoffs that they need to be tougher to play against. I don't expect him to be Pronger or old-school, but when you have a chance to hit a guy on the boards when playing the puck isn't an option, then hit him. When you can get away with a Keith-whack, whack the crap out of a guy.

 

[Mike Liut]

The game was a lot closer that the score. The Blues just aren't getting any breaks and have had a few bad turnovers that the other team capitalized on. Over a course of a season, this stuff happens. The regular season is nothing more than a seeding process for the end of the year tournament. You don't have to win every game in the regular season and be at your best each and every night. Off nights happen. Let's cool down and enjoy the ride. The Blues are a top 5 team and a serious contender.

 

[Dbrownss]

The bigger problem is still getting the middle 6 to actually score and the Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo pairing to get back to full form. It's not even about Bouwmeester's and Petro's offense because that will come when the forward lines they play with start to score, but they are still just a little bit off their game.

Also is unfortunate that Petro didn't get meaner after saying after the playoffs that they need to be tougher to play against. I don't expect him to be Pronger or old-school, but when you have a chance to hit a guy on the boards when playing the puck isn't an option, then hit him. When you can get away with a Keith-whack, whack the crap out of a guy.

Basically Doughty without the whining.

Petro is completely capable is leveling someone, he's done it on "accident" before.


I think this is one of my issues. The D is predictable since they tend to play the puck exclusively, forwards usually don't have to worry about being rocked. As you said we don't need Pronger, the existing D needs to be more gritty