GDT: Game 19: Bruins @ Coyotes - 6PM - FSAZ+ - Now With Less Stickiness

[Jakey53]

If the coach affords them the consistency that you keep clamoring for, they will consistently make the same mistakes.

You learn from your mistakes. If you don't make them you can't correct them.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

You learn from your mistakes. If you don't make them you can't correct them.

Read my last post, you're smarter than this.

 

[Jakey53]

If the coach affords them the consistency that you keep clamoring for, they will consistently make the same mistakes.

The consistency I was referring to were the players, not consistent ice time.

 

[Jakey53]

Read my last post, you're smarter than this.

Not some days.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The consistency I was referring to were the players, not consistent ice time.

If we use Strome as an example: I believe he's playing close to exactly the minutes I'd play him.

 

[Mosby]

Vegas getting stomped tonight. We better be ready for a pissed off team next game.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Vegas getting stomped tonight. We better be ready for a pissed off team next game.

Like the Bruins were pissed

 

[Jakey53]

If we use Strome as an example: I believe he's playing close to exactly the minutes I'd play him.

I agree, except for the game against the Bruins. 8 min. TOI for his entire line is a joke. Sits on the bench so long he needed a blanket to keep warm, and then gets a tap on his should and told go perform magic on the PP.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I agree, except for the game against the Bruins. 8 min. TOI for his entire line is a joke. Sits on the bench so long he needed a blanket to keep warm, and then gets a tap on his should and told go perform magic on the PP.

Not really when you aren't helping the team. There was one sequence that I remembered distinctly as the Bruins were bringing the puck out of the zone. We had set up a little bit of forechecking pressure, and our players usually got to the Bruin with the puck just a split second after the player released the puck. In this sequence, there were 3 times when the puck left a Bruins player's stick and we had an opportunity to at least put a hit on, run him into the boards a little, or do something that threw the player off balance and would make him think about making quicker decisions next time. Of those 3 times that we had a player there, 2 of them actually resulted in a hit on the boards (one on the right halfwall and the other hit was basically using the hips and bodying the player into the boards, which slowed his speed down considerably). The third player who barely did anything was Strome. He skated toward the Bruin in question and basically gave him a two-hand shove that probably helped the player turn his body more so that he could actually take a more direct line to where he was trying to go in the first place.

Sorry, but as much as Strome has improved, he doesn't have the killer instinct to not want to lose a battle or make other players earn their win. Keller has it. Strome doesn't at this point. Look at the other top picks. McDavid, Laine, - yep they have that "want" to have the puck on their stick and do everything it takes to get it back. I just don't see it enough and there needs to be some other intangibles that come into play, but a lot of those are ones that we clearly won't see. Physicality? Read the paragraph above. Smarts? You can be a smart player and that means you probably won't hurt your team, but the likelihood that you are helping your team isn't there either. We need something else from him soon or I say cut bait.

 

[azcanuck]

In regards to Strome he is still very much on the bubble.
When a coach decides how much a player plays to help the team vs. how much he is being developed is a balance. You still have to contribute in a meaningful way so your team can win.
I think Toc has been pretty fair. If Tippett was coaching this team you'd see guys like Richardson with top minutes. Toc plays the right style for the type of team we have.
I hope STrome makes it. He has shown flashes of offensive wizardry. But I've rarely seen a guy his size so weak on the puck. His skating is adequate. his smarts are very good. but time and space mean so much in the NHL vs. AHL. You have to have some dog in you to succeed in this game. Keller is weak as hell but he's so fast and skilled he can get away with not battling for the puck. He's simply too small , he wouldn't last long.

 

[BUX7PHX]

In regards to Strome he is still very much on the bubble.
When a coach decides how much a player plays to help the team vs. how much he is being developed is a balance. You still have to contribute in a meaningful way so your team can win.
I think Toc has been pretty fair. If Tippett was coaching this team you'd see guys like Richardson with top minutes. Toc plays the right style for the type of team we have.
I hope STrome makes it. He has shown flashes of offensive wizardry. But I've rarely seen a guy his size so weak on the puck. His skating is adequate. his smarts are very good. but time and space mean so much in the NHL vs. AHL. You have to have some dog in you to succeed in this game. Keller is weak as hell but he's so fast and skilled he can get away with not battling for the puck. He's simply too small , he wouldn't last long.

As Jake has said, coaches are in their position to do one thing: win. And frankly, it is the truth. If we came out tomorrow and said that our goal isn't to win, but to develop players, how interested would you be in buying tickets?

In that sense, there should never be development in the NHL, because all developing should happen before you get to this level, since the NHL is about winning. We had a coach who used to say something to the effect of not being a developmental league. And that's the issue with players that have so much promise but don't quite get it yet. You want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that their helping the team will come more often than their own personal and team development, but you run the risk of that development hurting the team, at times. Hurting the team due to a physical or mental mistake or hurting the team b/c players that are sat in favor of a player like Strome have to feel misused if they know what to do and can execute but have to allow someone to "develop" further.

I just haven't seen enough meaningful ways that Strome has helped us win. Faceoffs are the only thing that can be pointed to, but we have to see something more than that. Do more meaningful things, and maybe you can be trusted for more than 10 minutes of ice time.

 

[Jakey53]

Not really when you aren't helping the team. There was one sequence that I remembered distinctly as the Bruins were bringing the puck out of the zone. We had set up a little bit of forechecking pressure, and our players usually got to the Bruin with the puck just a split second after the player released the puck. In this sequence, there were 3 times when the puck left a Bruins player's stick and we had an opportunity to at least put a hit on, run him into the boards a little, or do something that threw the player off balance and would make him think about making quicker decisions next time. Of those 3 times that we had a player there, 2 of them actually resulted in a hit on the boards (one on the right halfwall and the other hit was basically using the hips and bodying the player into the boards, which slowed his speed down considerably). The third player who barely did anything was Strome. He skated toward the Bruin in question and basically gave him a two-hand shove that probably helped the player turn his body more so that he could actually take a more direct line to where he was trying to go in the first place.

Sorry, but as much as Strome has improved, he doesn't have the killer instinct to not want to lose a battle or make other players earn their win. Keller has it. Strome doesn't at this point. Look at the other top picks. McDavid, Laine, - yep they have that "want" to have the puck on their stick and do everything it takes to get it back. I just don't see it enough and there needs to be some other intangibles that come into play, but a lot of those are ones that we clearly won't see. Physicality? Read the paragraph above. Smarts? You can be a smart player and that means you probably won't hurt your team, but the likelihood that you are helping your team isn't there either. We need something else from him soon or I say cut bait.

I agree, he is way to passive.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Strome plays not to get hurt. Not injured, hurt as in bruised.

 

[azcanuck]

As Jake has said, coaches are in their position to do one thing: win. And frankly, it is the truth. If we came out tomorrow and said that our goal isn't to win, but to develop players, how interested would you be in buying tickets?

In that sense, there should never be development in the NHL, because all developing should happen before you get to this level, since the NHL is about winning. We had a coach who used to say something to the effect of not being a developmental league. And that's the issue with players that have so much promise but don't quite get it yet. You want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that their helping the team will come more often than their own personal and team development, but you run the risk of that development hurting the team, at times. Hurting the team due to a physical or mental mistake or hurting the team b/c players that are sat in favor of a player like Strome have to feel misused if they know what to do and can execute but have to allow someone to "develop" further.

I just haven't seen enough meaningful ways that Strome has helped us win. Faceoffs are the only thing that can be pointed to, but we have to see something more than that. Do more meaningful things, and maybe you can be trusted for more than 10 minutes of ice time.

I've always said Strome wont make it and I stand by that. Most of you were saying otherwise.
That being said of course your young talent is being developed no matter what the level.
How you handle young players can be the difference between them making it , or failing. It's that simple. They are young guys and very impressionable.
Winning is paramount on this level. But everyone is at a different level.
Richardson and grabner are fully developed.
keller, perlini, strome. Those guys are developing and that is pretty obvious.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

. Keller is weak as hell but he's so fast and skilled he can get away with not battling for the puck. He's simply too small , he wouldn't last long.

Coyote is the perfect animal for Keller, he's small, clever, and sneaky.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I've always said Strome wont make it and I stand by that. Most of you were saying otherwise.
That being said of course your young talent is being developed no matter what the level.
How you handle young players can be the difference between them making it , or failing. It's that simple. They are young guys and very impressionable.
Winning is paramount on this level. But everyone is at a different level.
Richardson and grabner are fully developed.
keller, perlini, strome. Those guys are developing and that is pretty obvious.

Yeah, I have strayed more on the "I don't think it will happen, but it could," train. Every so often, you will feel like he is ready for the next step, but it is a little bit of a tease.

I want to see Chayka and the organization start to ask questions in interviews to really get an idea of how the player responds to challenges and what sort of answers that they give. I feel as if though Strome may be the type of player that doesn't mind getting challenged, but he doesn't know how to respond in the best way. And we are seeing it this way. When he doesn't finish a check, is it because he has the feeling that he doesn't want to be the guy that the other team is now going to have their eyes on the rest of the game? I think that the players start to realize just how much it takes to make it in the NHL, and it wouldn't surprise me if Dylan is having a culture shock of just what it takes, and how much his limitations are holding him back. I think that even though people can talk about coaches taking confidence out of players, Strome having seen that it isn't as "easy" as what it took in the OHL has been a huge eye-opener.

 

[cobra427]

As Jake has said, coaches are in their position to do one thing: win. And frankly, it is the truth. If we came out tomorrow and said that our goal isn't to win, but to develop players, how interested would you be in buying tickets?

In that sense, there should never be development in the NHL, because all developing should happen before you get to this level, since the NHL is about winning. We had a coach who used to say something to the effect of not being a developmental league. And that's the issue with players that have so much promise but don't quite get it yet. You want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that their helping the team will come more often than their own personal and team development, but you run the risk of that development hurting the team, at times. Hurting the team due to a physical or mental mistake or hurting the team b/c players that are sat in favor of a player like Strome have to feel misused if they know what to do and can execute but have to allow someone to "develop" further.

I just haven't seen enough meaningful ways that Strome has helped us win. Faceoffs are the only thing that can be pointed to, but we have to see something more than that. Do more meaningful things, and maybe you can be trusted for more than 10 minutes of ice time.

Agreed. If Strome has the puck in the O zone he is dangerous, can make the right shot or pass. But this is 5-10% of his TOI. The other 90% of his TOI, he is our worst player. We need scoring but Archibald is more effective than Strome 90% of his TOI. Strome needs to be more effective without the puck, not great but a little better. Our team D and forecheck strategy doesn't work when one player is 1/2 a second late on D, you get a domino effect.