GDT: Game #17 Blues at Stars 7pm CT

[Blueston]

They came close in fact but I did not feel at any moment of the series they were the better team. The Blues pushed them around in games 6 and 7 and only heroic goaltending kept them around longer. I think Boston and Winnipeg were the two toughest outs.

i didn’t either, but they took us to double OT in game 7.

 

[PocketNines]

i didn’t either, but they took us to double OT in game 7.

So if we agree they were more lucky than deserving then you can more easily understand why I never thought Dallas in 2019, 2020, or since to be a real Cup threat. Same as there was no moment where I ever considered the possibility of Montreal beating Tampa, they were miles apart.

 

[Blueston]

So if we agree they were more lucky than deserving then you can more easily understand why I never thought Dallas in 2019, 2020, or since to be a real Cup threat. Same as there was no moment where I ever considered the possibility of Montreal beating Tampa, they were miles apart.

Ok. But they were much better team in 2019 than today.

 

[PocketNines]

Ok. But they were much better team in 2019 than today.

Offense is worse, defense is better. I think they’re too old and inconsistent but if they gel at just the right time offensively their defense will frustrate opponents in the playoffs.

 

[Reality Czech]

I thought all of this too. If Pie wanted to stay, he would have. Army scrambling to fill and create stability through NTC's is a clear indication that he figured Pie would stay and knew there were other problems on the horizon; we had no idea that JayBo would end up the way he did, either.

The team isn't all Pie and while Pie is the kind of play we're missing, we're also missing the likes of Steen, JayBo and yes, I'll say Maroon just for pure morale. And while I was a big opponent of his staying at one point, the player we're missing is JayBo.

Pie at long stretches seemed to be lazy and content with playing a laid-back game at times and being a passenger over playing with the weight of the C on his chest. Yes, I said it and I'll fight anyone who argues it. I'm not going to diminish Pie's legacy as a Blue because it's mighty but the bottom line is, he could have stayed, kept the C and been a living legend and the franchise would have taken care of him. Instead, he uprooted his family, moved to Vegas, and abandoned us and his legacy here.

We've moved on and we're going to struggle, we're going to have moments where everything will work and the next game everything will fall apart. We're the St. Louis Blues, We Do Nothing The Easy Way. It's simple as that and as fans we know this.

But Army did the best he could with what he had. There was NO reason that Pie couldn't have made a deal and stayed here and the money he makes in Vegas will always mean less than the legacy he built, struggled and earned here. He plays in Vegas but his name's on the Cup as a Blue. This is his home, this is his legacy and he'll always have to look over his shoulder and live with that.

I'm sick of hearing about him and I'm tired of us looking behind instead of looking ahead. I've said my piece about it but why does it matter to talk about it now? We've upgraded and we need a quality LD, that's all. Someone strong and solid who can slot into Top 4 minutes so players like Krug can play their game.

I believe in the greatness of this team, it's strength, tenacity and heart, it's ability to overcome and adapt. We've got our Cup with this group, if Army has to end up blowing it up, WE GOT A CUP FROM THIS.

So why keep complaining?

You're damn right! Preach brotha!

Petro will go down like Pujols. He gave up a perfect situation and a flawless legacy in St. Louis for a few million more somewhere else. And like Albert, I bet he'll regret it someday.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

You're damn right! Preach brotha!

Petro will go down like Pujols. He gave up a perfect situation and a flawless legacy in St. Louis for a few million more somewhere else. And like Albert, I bet he'll regret it someday.

Understandable comparison, but 100% disagree. The Pietro thing? I'm over it.

The Pujols thing? I said it when he signed with Anaheim and I've mentioned it here once or twice. Pujols was forced to take that deal. There are market forces at work that general fandom does not understand, even I, but I would wager that the MLBPA had a major (and undue) influence on that transaction.

 

[PocketNines]

It’s been many years since I followed baseball closely but I assume this comparison is often intelligently made because the Cardinals offered an extra year and more total dollars but not a no movement clause and bonuses to Pujols. That would make a savvy comparison

 

[Reality Czech]

Understandable comparison, but 100% disagree. The Pietro thing? I'm over it.

The Pujols thing? I said it when he signed with Anaheim and I've mentioned it here once or twice. Pujols was forced to take that deal. There are market forces at work that general fandom does not understand, even I, but I would wager that the MLBPA had a major (and undue) influence on that transaction.

I was over the Petro thing the moment it happened because I understood that it was likely a mutual decision. It happens all the time in sports, and it doesn't mean there was any bad blood or personal issues. He wanted a change of scenery (and more guaranteed money) more than he wanted to stay here his whole career and as someone who's moved around a lot in my life, I get it. He'll find out someday if it was worth it or not.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I was over the Petro thing the moment it happened because I understood that it was likely a mutual decision. It happens all the time in sports, and it doesn't mean there was any bad blood or personal issues. He wanted a change of scenery (and more guaranteed money) more than he wanted to stay here his whole career and as someone who's moved around a lot in my life, I get it. He'll find out someday if it was worth it or not.

Maybe the Pujols' situation was, largely, out of his control. Same with Pietro; ergo, he had no choice. We'll never know. This is what I think. Whether it is correct or not?

 

[simon IC]

I also didn't like the cost of that contract. And, I certainly didn't think that even the addition of Faulk, AND Krug, didn't make up for the loss of Pietrangelo. Of course, ALL GMs make SOME mistakes. No one can be perfect. But, I believe that Armstrong has been one of the best over the past 5 years, and I wouldn't fire him with knowing I had someone better, who, with out a doubt (already committed) will replace him.

Absolutely, Robb. I am certainly not in the fire Doug Armstrong camp, far from it! I think he has done a wonderful job, for the most part.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Absolutely, Robb. I am certainly not in the fire Doug Armstrong camp, far from it! I think he has done a wonderful job, for the most part.

Army has tried to balance talent with budget. To win a Cup while doing that speaks volumes of his skills, the Front Office and the culture we have.

 

[Robb_K]

I started watching the game about 5 mns into the 2nd period and immediately saw the tenacious Blues team that wiped the Shartnados.

The problem was that the Stars were playing a better version of the Blues team on Thursday, echoing what someone here posted about emulation. That is valid.

What is it that causes players to shut down and not respond to their head coach?

ROR and Perron appear gassed, but are they?

RT was amazing two games ago and has been a ghost the last two, but, in fairness, the Sharks and Stars keyed on him.

We allude to players turning off the head coach's message, but rarely explain what it is that causes players to turn off in the first place.

Perhaps that is so, because attempting to explain it will take us down the path of speculation.

What is it that causes players to shut down and not respond to their head coach?

Berube is known as a players' coach. He's always been well-loved by his players. I doubt that his messages have been lost on the players (e.g. he's lost the room). The Blues, with new players, new forward lines and defensive shift partners, and injured, ill and Covid protocol returnees were hard-pressed by the highly-energised Stars, were not energetic enough to keep up, and played nervously, and chasing the puck most of the first 2 periods, and had a weak game overall. That happens at different times in a season. I would absolutely hate to see Armstrong fire a solid, much better than average coach, just because the team falls into a temporary slump during a long season. Many The Blues seemed to be trying hard, but having little reserve of energy to initiate plays and make strong bursts. Maybe the team is fighting of the Flu. Little things like that are often never revealed, but can be the reason for slumps during a long season. I wouldn't consider firing Berube, unless The Blues would lose a large proportion of their games over a long period, and it appears that the players are not trying at all, and are in some form of rebellion. I haven't seen anything remotely like that.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

What is it with you guys and the Scandella obsession? He's getting less minutes than before and people are still acting as if he's the problem. Meanwhile, Perunovich looked very shaky at times and cost us a goal or two.

It's a fact that Scandella is much better defensively than Dunn, who will likely never be more than a 2nd pair guy due to his weak defensive play. Krug has played great this season, but I guess some fans just need their whipping boys.

dunn was a good fit on the 3rd with bobby b in his time here and was good on the pp .. ^ i could say the same about krug or peru ^.... marco is redundant as mikkola was already here maybe try putting
him in marcos role ..you might get more physicality

 

[execwrite1]

Call me crazy - I think this team misses Pat Maroon. An underestimated factor. Also Alexander Steen was a key component of the Cup team.

Haven't replaced those two plus Petro and Bouwmeester. This team is a long way from Cup contention.

 

[BlueOil]

put together a real forechecking 4th line again. the 4 scoring lines mix isn't as deadly as we'd hope it'd be

 

[Blueston]

put together a real forechecking 4th line again. the 4 scoring lines mix isn't as deadly as we'd hope it'd be

Putting Barbie Sunny Saad together seemed to work against Sharks, but next game we were passive again. Really missing Schenn. He is a big key to setting our identity.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Trying to get back to hockey - I found the Stars' D system really interesting. The backchecking forward would....let's call it lightly harass the puck carrier coming up the middle, with the D backing in but keeping a decent gap. Once the attacking forward (usually center) got over the line with the puck, they would dish it off to a winger who was standing still behind them, generally near the boards and the blue line. When this happened, it was like a robot getting activated in the back checking winger and they would HARD SEND straight for the guy on the wall. This lead to a ton of really crappy broken plays leading to easy clears, as the winger was standing still, had no options across the ice, and had the equivalent of a shrieking banshee coming straight for them. It happened A LOT in the second period especially, and I think it really tilted us for the rest of the game. It's a big reason why we were so completely ineffective at 5v5 - we kept falling into the same trap.

 

[Brian39]

I'm happy that other obligations caused me to miss this one. This was one of the 5 or so games year where I have zero hope of watching on delay before finding out the outcome, so I didn't even bother ignoring hockey news. Hoo boy it sounds like this was the right one to just ignore. I can't comment on anything about the game, but I did want to briefly give my input on the Berube discussion since I think it is clearly about more than just this one game.

I don't think there is or should be any serious consideration to fire Berube now or in the immediate future. We've had a brutal 10 day stretch where we went 1-4-1. The schedule sucked during that stretch (6 games in 10 days including a road/home B2B against two top 5 NHL teams) but 3 points out of those 6 games isn't good enough. But prior to that 10 day stretch the team was 8-2-1 without any real rumbling of coaching concerns. A horrid 10 day stretch following a hot start should be enough to make a coach's seat all that warm. If we have another 10 days like that last 10, then it will start to heat up and we will be one game in to our 4 game gauntlet against the Florida teams. Suddenly those games would become much, much more important for the coaching staff. I don't expect the next 10 days to look like the last 10 and I don't think there is or should be much serious discussion about firing Berube otherwise.

We've squandered the hot start and are back in the thick of a playoff battle in a hard division. The last week and a half has been frustrating, but I'm still very much of the mind that we need more data points before making any serious decisions about the long-term outlook of the staff. We've got 5 more games before December with a decent mix of really good and just okay teams.

 

[Blueston]

I'm happy that other obligations caused me to miss this one. This was one of the 5 or so games year where I have zero hope of watching on delay before finding out the outcome, so I didn't even bother ignoring hockey news. Hoo boy it sounds like this was the right one to just ignore. I can't comment on anything about the game, but I did want to briefly give my input on the Berube discussion since I think it is clearly about more than just this one game.

I don't think there is or should be any serious consideration to fire Berube now or in the immediate future. We've had a brutal 10 day stretch where we went 1-4-1. The schedule sucked during that stretch (6 games in 10 days including a road/home B2B against two top 5 NHL teams) but 3 points out of those 6 games isn't good enough. But prior to that 10 day stretch the team was 8-2-1 without any real rumbling of coaching concerns. A horrid 10 day stretch following a hot start should be enough to make a coach's seat all that warm. If we have another 10 days like that last 10, then it will start to heat up and we will be one game in to our 4 game gauntlet against the Florida teams. Suddenly those games would become much, much more important for the coaching staff. I don't expect the next 10 days to look like the last 10 and I don't think there is or should be much serious discussion about firing Berube otherwise.

We've squandered the hot start and are back in the thick of a playoff battle in a hard division. The last week and a half has been frustrating, but I'm still very much of the mind that we need more data points before making any serious decisions about the long-term outlook of the staff. We've got 5 more games before December with a decent mix of really good and just okay teams.

I think his seat is getting hot. I don’t expect anything to happen imminently, but it bears watching if we don’t pick it up.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I think his seating is getting hot. I don’t expect anything to happen imminently, but it bears watching if we don’t pick it up.

Maybe - but frankly, we need to remember that most prognosticators had us around 4-5 in the division. They had Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, and Winnipeg over us. We were in the mushy middle with Nashville and Chicago - easily the biggest gap in what could happen. For us, we started super hot and have fallen way back down to earth. Nashville on the other hand started pretty meh, but have come roaring back since (Although they did drop their last two).

At the end of the day, we're not a powerhouse. We're a clearly flawed team. That was the consensus going in, and it's being proven true. Can we go on a run and dominate for stretches? Sure. We've got a ton of firepower up front. But can we also go on skids? You betcha.

It's probably going to be a pretty up and down season. As much as I don't want to turn this back into an AP thread, P9's has it right. We ripped the center beam out of our house when we let him walk, and we're trying to figure out how to caulk/drywall our way through. That has nothing to do about the contract, the he said/she said, etc. It's just the simple fact that for 10+ years, AP was our best, consistent player. The guy who drove our engine. ROR is really good, and he looked like maybe he could be that guy for us last year, but this year he's been a borderline disaster thanks to COVID. Schenn missing time too has hurt us significantly. We have a ton more offensive talent then we've had over the years in Kyrou, Thomas, Tarasenko being healthy, etc. But those guys are not disciplined with the puck. And our D is legit the island of misfit toys. Faulk is fine and all, but I'd much rather pay AP 2M more then Faulk. (Again, not trying to push the convo back in that direction, but it's part of the reason we're in the predicament we're in on the defensive side). Parayko isn't a #1 D man. He's just not. He's an incredible #2, but he's not that all situations guy who can SHELTER another player as long as said player is a reasonably dependable, consistent type player. That's the difference b/t AP and Parayko. We could throw Carlo f***ing Coliacavo or Joel Edmundson or Gunnerson out there with AP, and it wasn't an issue. Parayko needs someone at a higher level then those types of guys.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I thought the Berube-hot-seat talk was just the typical over-reaction on the GDT. I'm surprised to see people giving this serious discussion at this point.

 

[simon IC]

New GDT up.