GDT: Game 15 | Pens vs Yotes | 11.10 7PM EST | Let's Go Pens!

[JackFr]

Sullivan has made some questionable lineup decisions before, and a couple I haven't been wild about.

Scratching Oleksiak is by far the most bizarre one I've seen. He's been our 3rd best defenceman this year. The eye test AND the stats bear that out. Johnson has been a calamity. And yet Johnson is gonna skate top pair tonight with PP and PK time while Oleksiak eats popcorn in the press box.

THIS is what we were talking about when we panicked about the Johnson signing. Everyone who said "It's fine, he's just replacing Hunwick, he'll be on our bottom pairing" was wrong. Johnson has some quality that makes coaches give him piles of ice time he obviously does not deserve. I don't know what it is. But whatever it is we're stuck with it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sullivan has made some questionable lineup decisions before, and a couple I haven't been wild about.

Scratching Oleksiak is by far the most bizarre one I've seen. He's been our 3rd best defenceman this year. The eye test AND the stats bear that out. Johnson has been a calamity. And yet Johnson is gonna skate top pair tonight with PP and PK time while Oleksiak eats popcorn in the press box.

THIS is what we were talking about when we panicked about the Johnson signing. Everyone who said "It's fine, he's just replacing Hunwick, he'll be on our bottom pairing" was wrong. Johnson has some quality that makes coaches give him piles of ice time he obviously does not deserve. I don't know what it is. But whatever it is we're stuck with it.

I mean, he has been playing well recently since being put on a pair with Letang. Scratching Oleksiak for Maatta is way bigger of a problem than scratching Oleksiak for Johnson. I don't get why people are still complaining about Johnson, he hasn't been that bad this year. He hasn't been their worst defenseman.

 

[JackFr]

I mean, he has been playing well recently since being put on a pair with Letang. Scratching Oleksiak for Maatta is way bigger of a problem than scratching Oleksiak for Johnson. I don't get why people are still complaining about Johnson, he hasn't been that bad this year. He hasn't been their worst defenseman.

You're right, Riikola has been worse.

Maatta has had a miserable season, but he's still been better than Johnson. They've both been useless on offence but at least Maatta has been better at preventing high danger chances than Johnson - which is reflected by the insanely low goals for rate Johnson has.

Weve had three good defencemen this year: Letang, Dumoulin, and Oleksiak

We've had three terrible defencemen this year: Johnson, Maatta, and Riikola

Any of those bottom three deserve to be scratched, but let's not pretend that two games of an elite defenceman dragging Johnson along negates how bad he's been.

 

[EightyOne]

Sullivan has made some questionable lineup decisions before, and a couple I haven't been wild about.

Scratching Oleksiak is by far the most bizarre one I've seen. He's been our 3rd best defenceman this year. The eye test AND the stats bear that out. Johnson has been a calamity. And yet Johnson is gonna skate top pair tonight with PP and PK time while Oleksiak eats popcorn in the press box.

THIS is what we were talking about when we panicked about the Johnson signing. Everyone who said "It's fine, he's just replacing Hunwick, he'll be on our bottom pairing" was wrong. Johnson has some quality that makes coaches give him piles of ice time he obviously does not deserve. I don't know what it is. But whatever it is we're stuck with it.

Smug smirks are attracted to smug smirks.

 

[JackFr]

Also it's so funny to me that Letang was supposedly sooooo horrible last season and a liability and all that because despite his strong possession he'd always end up on the ice with the puck in his own net.

And this year, Johnson has had none of the positive underlying numbers, none of the offensive play driving, none of the powerplay excellence, and has been on the ice constantly when the Pens are scored against, and he's "not that bad."

 

[ColePens]

Just bringing my comment form the salary cap thread into here, Oleksiak is 1st in goals/60 and is 2nd in points/60 among defenseman at ES this year. The team can't score, so Sullivan decides to scratch one of their most productive players on defense. Just throwing that out there in case you needed more evidence for how many bad roster decisions Sullivan is making this year.

I just want to state before I go into my thoughts - Oleksiak should not be sitting. Period.

But giving me a stat of goals/60 when the team defense is bleeding like it is, makes no sense. It's more important to discuss our team defense and our defensive woes and that starts with Maatta, JJ, and Oleksiak. IMO they are the 3 weakest from the redline to the d-zone.

So I just want to throw it out there that the reason Oleksiak is sitting is not because of his offense. And no.. I do not agree that he is sitting.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just want to state before I go into my thoughts - Oleksiak should not be sitting. Period.

But giving me a stat of goals/60 when the team defense is bleeding like it is, makes no sense. It's more important to discuss our team defense and our defensive woes and that starts with Maatta, JJ, and Oleksiak. IMO they are the 3 weakest from the redline to the d-zone.

So I just want to throw it out there that the reason Oleksiak is sitting is not because of his offense. And no.. I do not agree that he is sitting.

The team is having just as big of problems scoring as it is giving up goals. If Sullivan is sitting him because his defense sucks, he's an idiot because there are guys with just as bad defense that offer less offense than him. The team alternates between not being able to score and not being able to defend right now.

 

[JackFr]

I just want to state before I go into my thoughts - Oleksiak should not be sitting. Period.

But giving me a stat of goals/60 when the team defense is bleeding like it is, makes no sense. It's more important to discuss our team defense and our defensive woes and that starts with Maatta, JJ, and Oleksiak. IMO they are the 3 weakest from the redline to the d-zone.

So I just want to throw it out there that the reason Oleksiak is sitting is not because of his offense. And no.. I do not agree that he is sitting.

He's been better defensively than Johnson, Maatta, and Riikola though.

 

[EightyOne]

Also it's so funny to me that Letang was supposedly sooooo horrible last season and a liability and all that because despite his strong possession he'd always end up on the ice with the puck in his own net.

And this year, Johnson has had none of the positive underlying numbers, none of the offensive play driving, none of the powerplay excellence, and has been on the ice constantly when the Pens are scored against, and he's "not that bad."

Johnson isn't supposed to be a 1-2. Isn't making $7mil, and so far, hasn't missed like 20% of his career games due to injury.

Also, the army of JMFJ defenders grows smaller by the day.

Not sure why you're so mad right now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Johnson isn't supposed to be a 1-2. Isn't making $7mil, and so far, hasn't missed like 20% of his career games due to injury.

Also, the army of JMFJ defenders grows smaller by the day.

Not sure why you're so mad right now.

I think it was a small rag-tag band of rabble-rousers at it's peak

 

[ColePens]

He's been better defensively than Johnson, Maatta, and Riikola though.

Read my f***ing post. Jesus. I specifically said he should not be sitting over the guys you mentioned. But I just don't want fans turning a blind eye to his average play in the d-zone.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It should be Maatta sctratched. Big O and Maatta have both struggled defensively and especially in the last few games. Olli is good on the PK but we are getting scored on more at ES than the PK.

 

[JackFr]

Johnson isn't supposed to be a 1-2. Isn't making $7mil, and so far, hasn't missed like 20% of his career games due to injury.

Also, the army of JMFJ defenders grows smaller by the day.

Not sure why you're so mad right now.

But a lot of people here weren't saying "Letang is playing a little sub par, Letang is only playing like a top 4 guy, etc". People were saying he was a downright liability, that he made us worse, and that we'd be better off without him regardless of his cap hit.

And sure the JJ defenders aren't as active as they were, but there are still plenty of them and it's totally bizarre to me.

 

[JackFr]

Read my ****ing post. Jesus. I specifically said he should not be sitting over the guys you mentioned. But I just don't want fans turning a blind eye to his average play in the d-zone.

I know you said that, I'm just saying that if that's Sullivan's logic, it doesn't make sense.

 

[EightyOne]

Letang WAS a liability. Gawwdahm, he's got like 65% of the blame for the second round exit!

If he came out stumbling again this year, the fans woulda had his head on a stake. For really good reason.

The thing is, most reasonable posters who criticized him and wanted him gone, IF that was who was now, knew no trade existed that improved the team.

So all they could do was roll their eyes and point out yet another example of Letang lost as hell on the ice.

Luckily it seems to have been a one season dip. But climb down from your high horse, as it was a HELL of a dip.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, if you want to go there, the Penguins have had pretty good powerplays when Johnson has been on the PP unit this year. They've scored 4 powerplay goals in 14 PP minutes for Johnson (Letang is at 6 goals in 44 minutes, for comparison) and they're giving up less chances against when Johnson is on the powerplay unit. Johnson individually has also had a positive impact on the powerplay in the limited amount of time he has played there, with producing well and also shooting a lot. To criticize his powerplay performance just seems odd to me, he has been successful there. Want to criticize someone? Point your finger at Hornqvist, who has been awful on the powerplay this year.

Johnson has also had a positive impact in the offensive zone, with averaging around 2.5 individual shot attempts per game and is at about 1.5 shots per game. Oleksiak is at 3 shot attempts and 1.5 shots per game for comparison, and he's been really good in the offensive zone this year. I don't know why anyone extends it beyond "Johnson has gotten scored on a bunch when he's been on the ice", because that really has been his only problem. People are just looking for things to complain about with him, you don't have to make stuff up.

Edit: do you also know what's kinda ironic? Over the Penguins recent 5 game losing streak, Johnson has been playing pretty well, actually. He's been over a 50% CF% in all but 1 game and is actually 3rd among Penguins defensemen in CF% with a 56.34%.

 

[Peat]

I can never bring myself to be terribly positive about Johnson, but over the last 5 games, he's definitely not been the biggest problem statistically and in the last couple of games (the ones I've got to watch), he's been okay to my eye test. Plus he's in a pairing that allows us to spread the wealth right now. I see zero reason to call for his scratching right now.

If someone was leaving the line up to bring in Riikola, then it should have been Maatta. Very clearly so imo.

 

[ColePens]

I know you said that, I'm just saying that if that's Sullivan's logic, it doesn't make sense.

Oh I agree about Sully. To me, it's the early stages of internal panic. Actions >>> words. Here are some things Sully is doing this year that make no sense:

1) Started the season with Riikola on the sideline after a great preseason in favor of Maatta. This showed his hand early on not playing the best, but sticking with what he is comfortable with. As stated before - exactly what Bowman said not to do.

2) Sticking with Rust over and over and over again instead of using a guy like Sprong for a couple games. If you want to bring ZAR up, make it a point to sit Rust for a game. He got his contract, shits the bed, and it's a good time to prove a point. Sit him for a game and play the youngsters. Once again - Sully sticking to his comfort players as opposed to playing the best players.

3) Powerplay - The split PP works for one shift and he immediately goes back to what worked years ago. I mean what the hell? Stop going back to what worked. Sully even quoted that from Bowman. Stop going back to what worked. It's a new season.

IMO he's panicking. And it's showing/hurting the team.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean, if you want to go there, the Penguins have had pretty good powerplays when Johnson has been on the PP unit this year. They've scored 4 powerplay goals in 14 PP minutes for Johnson (Letang is at 6 goals in 44 minutes, for comparison) and they're giving up less chances against when Johnson is on the powerplay unit. Johnson individually has also had a positive impact on the powerplay in the limited amount of time he has played there, with producing well and also shooting a lot. To criticize his powerplay performance just seems odd to me, he has been successful there. Want to criticize someone? Point your finger at Hornqvist, who has been awful on the powerplay this year.

Johnson has also had a positive impact in the offensive zone, with averaging around 2.5 individual shot attempts per game and is at about 1.5 shots per game. Oleksiak is at 3 shot attempts and 1.5 shots per game for comparison, and he's been really good in the offensive zone this year. I don't know why anyone extends it beyond "Johnson has gotten scored on a bunch when he's been on the ice", because that really has been his only problem. People are just looking for things to complain about with him, you don't have to make stuff up.

Edit: do you also know what's kinda ironic? Over the Penguins recent 5 game losing streak, Johnson has been playing pretty well, actually. He's been over a 50% CF% in all but 1 game and is actually 3rd among Penguins defensemen in CF% with a 56.34%.

Dammit, Jack. Go back to sucking so we can win games!

 

[Zirakzigil]

Scratching Penny’s Bro is weirder than blaming Sprong for not producing on the 4th line. New low for this team.

Please just win it.... Even an ugly win. Just win....

 

[vodeni]

....and with NJD coming up next, a sure loss, we’re in great position to fall to last in the division...

you mean those scary Devils that lost 9 out of last 10

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I just want to state before I go into my thoughts - Oleksiak should not be sitting. Period.

But giving me a stat of goals/60 when the team defense is bleeding like it is, makes no sense. It's more important to discuss our team defense and our defensive woes and that starts with Maatta, JJ, and Oleksiak. IMO they are the 3 weakest from the redline to the d-zone.

So I just want to throw it out there that the reason Oleksiak is sitting is not because of his offense. And no.. I do not agree that he is sitting.

That's not really a good argument (in Sullivan's case) for sitting Oleksiak though. If three defensemen are playing bad defensively, but only one of them is contributing offensively, you don't sit *that* guy and play the other two who are just as bad defensively but bring zero offense.

Honestly, some of Sullivan's decision making is pissing me off at this point.

 

[Peat]

Oh I agree about Sully. To me, it's the early stages of internal panic. Actions >>> words. Here are some things Sully is doing this year that make no sense:

1) Started the season with Riikola on the sideline after a great preseason in favor of Maatta. This showed his hand early on not playing the best, but sticking with what he is comfortable with. As stated before - exactly what Bowman said not to do.

2) Sticking with Rust over and over and over again instead of using a guy like Sprong for a couple games. If you want to bring ZAR up, make it a point to sit Rust for a game. He got his contract, ****s the bed, and it's a good time to prove a point. Sit him for a game and play the youngsters. Once again - Sully sticking to his comfort players as opposed to playing the best players.

3) Powerplay - The split PP works for one shift and he immediately goes back to what worked years ago. I mean what the hell? Stop going back to what worked. Sully even quoted that from Bowman. Stop going back to what worked. It's a new season.

IMO he's panicking. And it's showing/hurting the team.

Counter argument - Sully's changed things up at random for no terribly logical reason even when he's got no reason to panic

 

[vodeni]

Letang WAS a liability. Gawwdahm, he's got like 65% of the blame for the second round exit!

If he came out stumbling again this year, the fans woulda had his head on a stake. For really good reason.

The thing is, most reasonable posters who criticized him and wanted him gone, IF that was who was now, knew no trade existed that improved the team.

So all they could do was roll their eyes and point out yet another example of Letang lost as hell on the ice.

Luckily it seems to have been a one season dip. But climb down from your high horse, as it was a HELL of a dip.

Tanger has been not all that great since that injury

 

[Tom Hanks]

Oh I agree about Sully. To me, it's the early stages of internal panic. Actions >>> words. Here are some things Sully is doing this year that make no sense:

1) Started the season with Riikola on the sideline after a great preseason in favor of Maatta. This showed his hand early on not playing the best, but sticking with what he is comfortable with. As stated before - exactly what Bowman said not to do.

2) Sticking with Rust over and over and over again instead of using a guy like Sprong for a couple games. If you want to bring ZAR up, make it a point to sit Rust for a game. He got his contract, ****s the bed, and it's a good time to prove a point. Sit him for a game and play the youngsters. Once again - Sully sticking to his comfort players as opposed to playing the best players.

3) Powerplay - The split PP works for one shift and he immediately goes back to what worked years ago. I mean what the hell? Stop going back to what worked. Sully even quoted that from Bowman. Stop going back to what worked. It's a new season.

IMO he's panicking. And it's showing/hurting the team.

Agree with points 2 and 3 but why scratch Maatta for Riikola. Maatta was a good D man last season. One of our best in the playoffs. Sure Riikola played well in the pre season. It’s still the pre season against lower competition.

Scratching a top 4 D for a guy who played well in some pre season games seems like something no coach would do.

If you are talking about right now that’s completely fair but not going into the season.