GDT: Game 14: Flyers at Sharks, 7:30pm

Internazionale

Registered User
Apr 24, 2007
1,941
766
Airdrie, AB
Melker Karlsson should be a scratch. No question about it.


I think there is not any injury bug or anything reported which are usually when some unusual player is healthy scratch. And if you are scratching a player to give a message or having another perspective then why don't you scratch ****ing Pavelski who has been quite bad and needs some kick in his game.

Absolutely Karlsson needs to sit, but so does Labanc. Healthy or not, why you sit players who are playing well is beyond me. I don't buy the argument that he needs to adjust to North American ice etc. I'm really ticked Suomela is sitting.
 
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BillR10

Registered User
Nov 16, 2008
789
189
It's the flyers so I'm going to say sharks 5 flyers 2

Couture. Meier, Labanc, Burns, Karlsson (I have a feeling he gets his first as a shark tonight)

Giroux, Simmonds
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,400
12,606
Karlsson shouldn't even be on the roster. That one's on DW. Karlsson shouldn't be playing. That one's on PDB.
 

LA Shark

Hello Darkness My Old Freind
Feb 18, 2017
3,576
2,573
Southern California
4-2 Flyers
Simmonds, Voracek, Gosti, Provolov
Timo, Logan

I'm officially full on out on PDB. Scratching Shovels was the last straw.
 

Church Hill

I'd drink it
Nov 16, 2007
17,817
2,808
Honestly, Suomela has been far below average lately. Don't know why everyone on here seems to think they know better than an NHL head coach. But I'm with Deboer on this. He's not played well enough for his spot.
 
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Coily

Gettin' Jiggy with it
Oct 8, 2008
34,624
2,243
Redlands
Honestly, Suomela has been far below average lately. Don't know why everyone on here seems to think they know better than an NHL head coach. But I'm with Deboer on this. He's not played well enough for his spot.
What has Melker done to warrant his spot? PK'ing isn't enough.
 

stator

Registered User
Apr 17, 2012
5,030
1,014
San Jose
Maybe the Sharks are looking to trade Melker and Labanc? That's the only reason besides Pete being an idiot that I can think of.

Melker & Labanc for Nylander?

You gotta believe that DW smells opportunity and is circling the waters on Nylander. 27 days left to go in order for Nylander to play a game in a Leafs uniform this season (or for any NHL uniform for that matter).

Swedes fit in well on the Sharks.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Honestly, Suomela has been far below average lately. Don't know why everyone on here seems to think they know better than an NHL head coach. But I'm with Deboer on this. He's not played well enough for his spot.

I'm not weighing in on the Suomela benching in particular here, but the bolded is one of my least favorite devices for trying to refute criticism. It essentially reduces everything to the idea that we should do nothing but unfailingly support and believe everything that goes on, never questioning, never disagreeing, and never breaking with the course set by the powers that be.

Might as well shut the boards down if that's the case.
 

Church Hill

I'd drink it
Nov 16, 2007
17,817
2,808
I'm not weighing in on the Suomela benching in particular here, but the bolded is one of my least favorite devices for trying to refute criticism. It essentially reduces everything to the idea that we should do nothing but unfailingly support and believe everything that goes on, never questioning, never disagreeing, and never breaking with the course set by the powers that be.

Might as well shut the boards down if that's the case.

Fair enough.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
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Fremont, CA
Honestly, Suomela has been far below average lately. Don't know why everyone on here seems to think they know better than an NHL head coach. But I'm with Deboer on this. He's not played well enough for his spot.

No, Suomela has not been "far below average" lately and he certainly has not been inferior to any of the following forwards:

Melker Karlsson
Joe Thornton
Joe Pavelski
Rourke Chartier
Barclay Goodrow
Kevin LaBanc

On top of that, I don't know why anyone here seems to think that an NHL coach is some perfect genius who can never be questioned on anything? 30 of them fail to win the Stanley Cup every season.
 
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Church Hill

I'd drink it
Nov 16, 2007
17,817
2,808
No, Suomela has not been "far below average" lately and he certainly has not been inferior to any of the following forwards:

Melker Karlsson
Joe Thornton
Joe Pavelski
Rourke Chartier
Barclay Goodrow
Kevin LaBanc

On top of that, I don't know why anyone here seems to think that an NHL coach is some perfect genius who can never be questioned on anything? 30 of them fail to win the Stanley Cup every season.

You said a lot of wrong things there. But if you actually think Suomela has been playing better than Pavs then I'm not going to bother. Labanc has definitely been worse, though. He's been the worst Shark (next to EK65 last game, at least).
 

SnarkAttack

Registered Loser
Jan 18, 2011
3,242
1,652
East Bay, CA
You said a lot of wrong things there. But if you actually think Suomela has been playing better than Pavs then I'm not going to bother. Labanc has definitely been worse, though. He's been the worst Shark (next to EK65 last game, at least).

I can't find many wrong things there, though.

Mike Milbury was a coach. Everytime someone thinks that hf collectively knows less just because someone's a coach, just always remember Milbury was a coach.
 
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Dicdonya

Registered User
Jul 21, 2011
4,441
2,588
What has Suomela done? "Literally nothing" isn't enough, either. And he's had much more opportunity for success. He's been completely worthless for at least a week now.

Oh yeah Suomela has done nothing compared to Melker, totally legit to bench him over Melker.

Hmm lets see. Suomela vs Melker 5v5 stats
PTS 4 to 1 Suomela
Shots- 27 to 17 Suomela
ICF- 45 to 22 Suomela
ISCF- 25 to 16 Suomela
Penalties taken- 4 to 2 Melker
Penalties drawn- 2 to 0 Suomela
CF% 59 to 52 Somela (and better in every other possession stat as well by a landslide)
GF% 66.66 to 33.33 Suomela

Outside of like blocked shots, I do not think I saw a single solitary way in which Melker has been better than Suomela.

You bring up this last week for when Suomela has not done much, fine, its also when the whole team has done f*** all because Deboer lost his mind when Thornton came back and started f***ing all the lines up. However for all the uselessness that Suomela has displayed in the last week according to you, Melker has STILL been objectively and subjectively worse. There is no defending a healthy scratch for Suomela over Melker unless he is a little banged up.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,400
12,606
Suomela's been really good but he fell flat the last couple games. It's mainly due to breaking up that 3rd line and sticking him with the corpse of Melker and Goodrow. Sorensen and Donskoi were perfect guys for him to play with but he probably needs to work on his game more if he can only really find any kind of success with Donskoi.
 
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bluefunnel

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Sponsor
Jul 30, 2005
9,092
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SNOG:

4-2 Sharks.

Burns, Couture, Hertl and Meier.

Giroux and Simmonds.
 

CHALUPA

Registered User
Oct 9, 2008
952
51
Stockton, CA
I'm not weighing in on the Suomela benching in particular here, but the bolded is one of my least favorite devices for trying to refute criticism. It essentially reduces everything to the idea that we should do nothing but unfailingly support and believe everything that goes on, never questioning, never disagreeing, and never breaking with the course set by the powers that be.

Might as well shut the boards down if that's the case.

Eh I slightly disagree. I think a lot of people just think DeBoer is an idiot and does stupid shit. There’s a difference between “DeBoer is an idiot for doing such a stupid thing” and “huh, that’s a weird decision, I wonder why he did this”. You can then discuss the decision with the knowledge that DeBoer has way more experience than any of us.

On the surface, this decision is puzzling, though. We might get some clarity in the future. For all we know, DeBoer knows that the donskoi Suomela connection is good, and he wants to see other possible permutations? Dunno
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Eh I slightly disagree. I think a lot of people just think DeBoer is an idiot and does stupid ****. There’s a difference between “DeBoer is an idiot for doing such a stupid thing” and “huh, that’s a weird decision, I wonder why he did this”. You can then discuss the decision with the knowledge that DeBoer has way more experience than any of us.

On the surface, this decision is puzzling, though. We might get some clarity in the future. For all we know, DeBoer knows that the donskoi Suomela connection is good, and he wants to see other possible permutations? Dunno

But what I was saying is that there's a difference between "coach's decisions should be evaluated and criticized based on their own merits on a case-by-case basis" and "DeBoer is an NHL coach and you're not, therefore he knows what he's doing and you don't." One says that there's a place for warranted criticism. The other is a lazy appeal to authority that suggests there's no room to criticize someone because they're alleged to be an expert in the field and thus beyond the reproach of laymen.

The post I quoted phrased its defence of DeBoer in the context of the latter.
 

Thwarter

All out of bubblegum
Mar 1, 2008
439
21
Break Even Territory
May the Force be with us and get a win on this homestand.
VvHvnC6.jpg


First SNOG of the season:
Sharks 4 - Couture, E. Karlsson, Pavelski, Kane
Flyers 1 - Simmonds
 

Tkachuk4MVP

32 Years of Fail
Apr 15, 2006
14,800
2,684
San Diego, CA
What has Suomela done? "Literally nothing" isn't enough, either. And he's had much more opportunity for success. He's been completely worthless for at least a week now.


As opposed to Melker who's been completely worthless for at least a year now.

Suomela's at least shown some flashes this season. A lot of the team's looked bad the last week or so.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
Oh yeah Suomela has done nothing compared to Melker, totally legit to bench him over Melker.

Hmm lets see. Suomela vs Melker 5v5 stats
PTS 4 to 1 Suomela
Shots- 27 to 17 Suomela
ICF- 45 to 22 Suomela
ISCF- 25 to 16 Suomela
Penalties taken- 4 to 2 Melker
Penalties drawn- 2 to 0 Suomela
CF% 59 to 52 Somela (and better in every other possession stat as well by a landslide)
GF% 66.66 to 33.33 Suomela

Outside of like blocked shots, I do not think I saw a single solitary way in which Melker has been better than Suomela.

You bring up this last week for when Suomela has not done much, fine, its also when the whole team has done **** all because Deboer lost his mind when Thornton came back and started ****ing all the lines up. However for all the uselessness that Suomela has displayed in the last week according to you, Melker has STILL been objectively and subjectively worse. There is no defending a healthy scratch for Suomela over Melker unless he is a little banged up.

Honestly, there is no point in even arguing this or trying to quantify things. As soon as somebody says "DeBoer is an NHL coach, I think he knows better than you.", it's time to no longer try to quantify or argue anything. This is basically Heed Vs. DeMelo all over again.

There will be people who will say "DeBoer is an NHL coach, he knows better than you. Heed made a dumb mistake and deserves to be benched." There will also be people who say "While Tim Heed had a poor game, or made one egregious error, DeMelo has had more poor games and has made more egregious errors. Every single underlying metric, be it one as simple as points or +/-, or one as complicated as team relative xGF%, suggests that Tim Heed has been significantly better." At this point, we are pretty much just regurgitating which group we belong to.

There is no point in even acknowledging that Suomela has slowed down marginally over the past 3-4 games, because in doing so, you imply that he should be held to some different standard than DeBoer's favorites. Melker Karlsson has slowed down significantly over the past 90-110 games, why does he get a pass? Not to mention that Suomela at his best, is significantly better than Melker at his best, or that Suomela at his worst is significantly better than Melker at his worst. The answer is that Melker gets a pass because he is the coach's favorite, and the coach plays favorites. People defend this logic by saying that the coach is a professional, and therefore every single one of his decisions - even one that might be based on bias and favoritism, rather than logic - is immediately the correct decision.

It's the same reason why it was never worth debating what Tim Heed had to do to get in the lineup over Dylan DeMelo, or considering (like ON4 often did) that Tim Heed had come into camp with poor conditioning numbers, or considering (as PF did) that he got beat wide by Virtanen. Yes, Heed made errors, but other players made similar or worse errors, had inferior performance metrics as a whole, and got played ahead of him.

The performances of these players (Suomela Vs. Melker, Heed Vs. DeMelo) are both visibly and quantifiably so far apart from one another that it is reasonable to suggest that something other than merit is factoring into the decision making process, and that the one making the decisions is, at the very least, imperfect and prone to criticism.
 
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CHALUPA

Registered User
Oct 9, 2008
952
51
Stockton, CA
But what I was saying is that there's a difference between "coach's decisions should be evaluated and criticized based on their own merits on a case-by-case basis" and "DeBoer is an NHL coach and you're not, therefore he knows what he's doing and you don't." One says that there's a place for warranted criticism. The other is a lazy appeal to authority that suggests there's no room to criticize someone because they're alleged to be an expert in the field and thus beyond the reproach of laymen.

The post I quoted phrased its defence of DeBoer in the context of the latter.
Fair point. I agree
 

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