Value of: (G) Matt Murray

[Flying Dego]

Literally the 30th Overall Pick. I don’t see any teams out there with that level of desperation today.

You aren't thinking like a GM. I guarantee there are a few GMs willing to deal for Murray similar to past examples. Unfortunately I have doubts JR and the pens brass will move on.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

At what cost? Adding someone *better* than McCann at 3C likely costs whatever price Pageau will end up going for. Doesn't really make sense to pay that price for a 3C when the Pens have other areas they could use those assets to improve, while keeping McCann in that spot.

What do you mean at what cost? Isn't this thread about what Murray's worth? Murray can certainly return a top 3C and a good prospect on top of that, if not more. If Jarry and DeSmith keep performing the way they are that could certainly be a possibility down the line.

 

[Beauner]

I don’t want Murray. Since his run in the immediate aftermath of the departure of Fleury he’s been a league average player at his position. Historically, said position has NOT BEEN highly valued in trade. So no I wouldn’t trade garbage for Murray, I wouldn’t trade anything for him.

"Historically" like when a young goalie was traded for a top 10 pick less than a decade ago?

 

[Drake1588]

A lot. Plenty of teams need a good No. 1, as would Pittsburgh if they made this trade. DeSmith and Jarry are... fine.

 

[StephenPeat]

You aren't thinking like a GM. I guarantee there are a few GMs willing to deal for Murray similar to past examples. Unfortunately I have doubts JR and the pens brass will move on.

I think THIS SEASON in particular and the SALARY CAP realities it has brought to light have scared a number of GMs from overpaying for goaltending. Look at Calgary and Carolina. They’re arguably two of the teams MOST in need of a goaltending upgrade and instead they’re letting it ride. In the case of the Hurricanes it seemed to suit them just fine. Let me posit this scenario to those interested. A ~$7.5M Braden Holtby is available for essentially free. A ~7.5M Matt Murray is available for the prices being bandied about in this thread. The realities have changed and GMs will find an alternative to paying prime assets for a 25yr old who appears to be backsliding that wants $7.5M with term.

 

[StephenPeat]

"Historically" like when a young goalie was traded for a top 10 pick less than a decade ago?

The one who is literally being waived THIS WEEK after posting worse stats than me for multiple MONTHS to start this season?

You don’t think GMs are going to see that as emblematic of how misguided it is to spend prime assets on a young goaltender, who in Murray’s case, will want prime salary and term? I mean you can remain optimistic but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Imagine Murray on the Islanders with Korn?

Pretty sure they’d rather see the 2nd best goalie prospect in the league with Korn this offseason

 

[ChaosAgent]

If Jarry keeps up his strong play, the Pens are losing one of MM or Jarry in the expansion draft. "Fleurying" Murray might actually happen.

I'd rather just "Fleury" MM in RFA this year if it gives us salary space to get an impact skater in FA.

 

[CREW99AW]

Imagine Murray on the Islanders with Korn?

Would rather go with Varly/Griess this season and Varly/Sorokin starting next season.

Goaltending is not the isles issue ( scoring sniper & bottom 6 center are)

 

[3074326]

Oh come on, that cannot be the basis for a trade. That was a terrible trade the minute it was made.

It's precedent. That's how it works.

 

[JTG]

If we gave up MAF only to give up Murray and then roll with Jarry and DeSmith then I'll riot. Just sayin' ​

Why? This is the exact way you would want a situation to pan out when you draft goalies in consecutive years. You want them to develop so you can collect assets and pay one less money.

Jarry is ready. Murray completely served his purpose. There are two highly capable goaltenders on the Pens roster right now.

 

[justafan22]

I'd rather just "Fleury" MM in RFA this year if it gives us salary space to get an impact skater in FA.

You're going to lose one of them to Seattle if they're on the roster in June 2021.

Why not get value for one of those two now? It's what Anaheim did with Gibson/Andersen

 

[ChaosAgent]

You're going to lose one of them to Seattle if they're on the roster in June 2021.

Why not get value for one of those two now? It's what Anaheim did with Gibson/Andersen

The Pens are really good this year and I'd like to have both Murray and Jarry as options for the playoffs.

Next year all bets are off. I assume we can trade Murray as an RFA instead of signing him.

 

[Jacob]

The Pens are really good this year and I'd like to have both Murray and Jarry as options for the playoffs.

Next year all bets are off. I assume we can trade Murray as an RFA instead of signing him.

Yeah I’d hold off at least until this upcoming offseason.

 

[justafan22]

The Pens are really good this year and I'd like to have both Murray and Jarry as options for the playoffs.

Next year all bets are off. I assume we can trade Murray as an RFA instead of signing him.

Oh, I 100% agree with you in keeping both this season.

My proposal was more about trading one this offseason so you don't get stuck into a situation where you're losing one for nothing to seattle.

 

[justafan22]

Yeah I’d hold off at least until this upcoming offseason.

I believe he has arb rights next summer, though he'd want a long term deal.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Oh, I 100% agree with you in keeping both this season.

My proposal was more about trading one this offseason so you don't get stuck into a situation where you're losing one for nothing to seattle.

I'd probably trade Murray this offseason.

For the expansion draft, we'll ultimately lose someone from the team and it's going to hurt. Remember the Pens had to bribe Vegas with a 2nd to ensure they selected Fleury and not - I think - Rust.

If I were to guess right now on who the Penguins'll lose in the Seattle draft...I'm thinking either Pettersson or Kahun.

 

[molon labe]

I'd probably trade Murray this offseason.

For the expansion draft, we'll ultimately lose someone from the team and it's going to hurt. Remember the Pens had to bribe Vegas with a 2nd to ensure they selected Fleury and not - I think - Rust.

If I were to guess right now on who the Penguins'll lose in the Seattle draft...I'm thinking either Pettersson or Kahun.

If/when the Pens sign MM to an extension - if Jarry is here I'd be shocked if they didn't take him. Petts, Marino, and Letang have a strong chance of being the 3 defenders on the list. Jarry will have more value than Kahun to a new team.

Murray is still the better goalie right now - but I'm mostly concerned with the price he's going to command. To a team that leans on their goalie more - it makes sense. But for the Pens to spend 7+M on a single goalie is a little concerning.

 

[ChaosAgent]

If/when the Pens sign MM to an extension - if Jarry is here I'd be shocked if they didn't take him. Petts, Marino, and Letang have a strong chance of being the 3 defenders on the list. Jarry will have more value than Kahun to a new team.

Murray is still the better goalie right now - but I'm mostly concerned with the price he's going to command. To a team that leans on their goalie more - it makes sense. But for the Pens to spend 7+M on a single goalie is a little concerning.

That's adding that no other goalie better than Jarry is available. Big assumption.

 

[cspera777]

I think something around Murray and some other minor piece to Toronto for Nylander and Kapanen makes sense for both teams.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Salary cap aside this feels like a robbery favoring Pittsburgh (does Nylander play something other than center?)

 

[chethejet]

Toronto would probably like to move a forward for cap space. Anderson has one more year and could be moved but he will cost approx what Murray will. I would surmise the Leafs like Anderson and Nylander is to expensive for a 3rd line center. Now of the Leafs retain some AAV, certainly that is a consideration. Kap with an add would be something the leafs could do if they can move Anderson.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

That's adding that no other goalie better than Jarry is available. Big assumption.

Fair, but Jarry will also have just turned 26 years old with a 2nd round pedigree that'd be fully developed and he's already shown he belongs in the NHL well ahead of the expansion draft. It's quite possible if not likely that there'll be another goalie available that'll have a higher upside, but Jarry would be a young goalie ready to step into a starting role, which would make him an ideal target for an expansion team. A lot can change between now and summer 2021, panicking about who we're going to lose 18+ months from now isn't high up on my priorities list, but Jarry looks like a future starter in this league and I doubt there'll be an abundance of goalies that will check all of the boxes that Jarry does for an expansion team.

FWIW the cost thing is the only reason I'd even consider moving Murray, and he'd need to be steadfast on demanding a stupid contract for me to give it serious thought. Jarry is only a year younger than Murray, which completely undercuts the biggest reason Murray was chosen over Fleury the last time around. Say what you will about Fleury and/or Murray, but the age gap there was a decade. No GM in hockey was going to choose a soon to be 33 year-old goalie making nearly $5.75million against the cap coming off a 3+ GAA season over a guy who had significantly better stats on the same team, had just turned 23, and had won the Stanley Cup in each of his first two professional seasons. Even if time managed/manages to prove the decision wrong, it was still the obvious decision.

It is also worth noting that the Pens had Murray looking at 5 years of restricted free agency looming, while Jarry would be looking at just 2 come 2021. Even if Jarry progresses as well as anyone could hope, his status as affordable would be comparably brief. Unlike last time, however, there won't be a glut of high-end goaltending prospects all around the same age again providing an extra layer of security. When Fleury was dealt, Murray was merely the third highest drafted young goalie in the system. Jarry was the team's top pick in 2013 and Filip Gustavsson the same in 2016. Ultimately this means little this far out, but it is an argument for choosing the known quantity when Jarry barely counts as being younger.

 

[molon labe]

Murray's value seems to be not far off of a top-6 F or a top-4 D (decent ones, not world-beaters).

Does that really change much based on his expected cap hit? Would a team think a lot less of him @8 than @6.5? If you're without a #1 than what are your other options in the next year or two? Holtby is UFA and probably looking for 9 if I had to guess.

 

[72hockey guy]

Based upon his current play (He looked clueless against the Isles this week..Brock Nelson of all people deked him out of his jock) I doubt his value is all that high.

Frankly, Jarry has looked better in my opinion. But small sample sizes will do that. I think Murray just needs a bit of a break to refocus.