Speculation: Friedman: "At the deadline I heard that several Jets players asked to be traded"

[GaryPoppins]

The likes of North End Rick, "Ron", Ty from La Broquerie, and Ralph in St. James don't need to be heard from.

1 and 3 are repugnant. If I never hear either of their opinions again, I’ll consider this a blessed life.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Send Hele to Edmonton. Same offer as Gibson, Holloway + 1st + one of Samurokov/Savoie + Kassian

 

[LowLefty]

I mean he's been better than Stanley all season and we gift wrapped Stanley minutes every night.

Hopefully Chevy takes this team in a new direction. The message was stale from Maurice. It's stale from Scheifele and Wheeler. The room needs a reset and to build a round Morrissey/PLD/Connor/Ehlers and more young guys. Bring in some other veteran leadership if necessary but our shit stinks.

I'd say they both struggled - neither was better than the other "all season" -
We'll see how it shakes out next season - but I have to admit, I would be more than a bit surprised if either of them is getting 2nd pairing minutes.

What's more likely is Samberg stepping up and playing over both of them - and depending on who is left on the blue line next year, I'd think both could be fighting for an opportunity to play - period.

 

[rubikscube]

Send Hele to Edmonton. Same offer as Gibson, Holloway + 1st + one of Samurokov/Savoie + Kassian

No because a goalie needs to come back.

Maybe if you guys had drafted Askarov and he was a part of the package.

Edmonton doesn't have the pieces to get a vezina goalie unless it includes Drai which screws the oilers anyway. It's no fit

 

[Huffer]

No because a goalie needs to come back.

Maybe if you guys had drafted Askarov and he was a part of the package.

Edmonton doesn't have the pieces to get a vezina goalie unless it includes Drai which screws the oilers anyway. It's no fit

I wouldn't necessarily say that a goalie needs to come back in a deal if the Jets trade Helle. It's just that the Jets would need a plan to acquire one. If the Jets can acquire a goalie another way, it's likely better to take the best offer. (Not saying they are trading Helle at all).

Are you referring to Wallstadt that the Oilers passed on? If they drafted him, making a deal would be much easier. If the Wild didn't have such cap issues, I would think Helle (and even Wheeler) would be good fits there.

 

[rubikscube]

I wouldn't necessarily say that a goalie needs to come back in a deal if the Jets trade Helle. It's just that the Jets would need a plan to acquire one. If the Jets can acquire a goalie another way, it's likely better to take the best offer. (Not saying they are trading Helle at all).

Are you referring to Wallstadt that the Oilers passed on? If they drafted him, making a deal would be much easier. If the Wild didn't have such cap issues, I would think Helle (and even Wheeler) would be good fits there.

Wallstadt, yes.

But either way a goalie needs to be included. Vezina winners with 2 years left on a fair contract don't grow on trees.

Chevy will never trade Helle because there's no plan B.

 

[Huffer]

Wallstadt, yes.

But either way a goalie needs to be included. Vezina winners with 2 years left on a fair contract don't grow on trees.

Chevy will never trade Helle because there's no plan B.

Have to agree to disagree then. If the Jets would look to trade Helle, I wouldn't want them hamstrung to a team that has a goalie coming back in the trade. I'd rather they get the best package they can and find a goalie another way.

 

[rubikscube]

Wallstadt, yes.

But either way a goalie needs to be included. Vezina winners with 2 years left on a fair contract don't grow on trees.

Chevy will never trade Helle because there's no plan B.

It's not impossible, but they're not giving up Helle for a good center prospect, a meh LHD prospect and a pick. That's a guarantee.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

I mean he's been better than Stanley all season and we gift wrapped Stanley minutes every night.

Hopefully Chevy takes this team in a new direction. The message was stale from Maurice. It's stale from Scheifele and Wheeler. The room needs a reset and to build a round Morrissey/PLD/Connor/Ehlers and more young guys. Bring in some other veteran leadership if necessary but our shit stinks.

Hard to really agree that Heinolas was better than Stanley all season when all Stanley’s stats are slightly better than Heinolas.

 

[DRW204]

If opinions are driving people away might want to stay off the internet altogether.

 

[phrenssoa]

I would want out too after the brutal winter we had.

 

[JetsUK]

Hard to really agree that Heinolas was better than Stanley all season when all Stanley’s stats are slightly better than Heinolas.

Sample sizes and context. Stanley is three years further ahead in his career, which is a whole lot for a D prospect, has played far more and far more consistently and even then they were in pretty different situations -- Heinola came in, started slowly and then was sent down as he began to settle in. Then he lived for a while in the press box, slotted in for a Moose game or two, returned to the press box, came back in after not playing for an extended period, settled in, had a rough game and was then sent down as he began to assert himself more offensively and defensively.

Stanley started the year on the third pairing, moved up and was awful, had some strong games and some truly terrible ones, was injured (or not) to give him time to get his game back together and never really did. He played more, and more consistently, and the org has done everything it could to give him favourable minutes and pairings.

To point to "slightly better" numbers for Stanley, who has had the better part of two full seasons to make his case, including last year where he played in an incredibly sheltered role, with virtually no dangerous game states play, kind of emphasizes the point some have been making. I'd argue that we know what we have in him -- the question then becomes whether what we have in is is something that benefits the team going forward over, say, Samberg or even Kovacevic.

It would be interesting to compare the two in a world where Heinola had Stanley's consistent minutes, steady workload and heavy sheltering. My bet is that he would have significantly outperformed him, but who knows?

To my eyes, Heinola is smarter, better positionally, more efficient in retrieval and boxing out, has a sharper first pass, is more aggressive in the O zone, can run the line on the PP or in the zone, and is far more mobile.

Stanley is obviously stronger, can use his size (but often doesn't), has a sneaky release and deceptively good passing ability, will pull the Beaulieu and fight. He is far more prone to gaffes and IMO has much less upside -- he's now D+6, and a lot closer to his prime years.

It's the Who knows? that is the problem with the Jets' young D situation. We played a succession of plugs over prospects for years, and now some of those prospects are ageing out and have waiver concerns. This org has been reluctant to integrate young defensive talent early and while I understand some of the reasons, there are clear costs IMO.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Sample sizes and context. Stanley is three years further ahead in his career, which is a whole lot for a D prospect, has played far more and far more consistently and even then they were in pretty different situations -- Heinola came in, started slowly and then was sent down as he began to settle in. Then he lived for a while in the press box, slotted in for a Moose game or two, returned to the press box, came back in after not playing for an extended period, settled in, had a rough game and was then sent down as he began to assert himself more offensively and defensively.

Stanley started the year on the third pairing, moved up and was awful, had some strong games and some truly terrible ones, was injured (or not) to give him time to get his game back together and never really did. He played more, and more consistently, and the org has done everything it could to give him favourable minutes and pairings.

To point to "slightly better" numbers for Stanley, who has had the better part of two full seasons to make his case, including last year where he played in an incredibly sheltered role, with virtually no dangerous game states play, makes more sense. I'd argue that we know what we have in him -- the question then becomes whether what we have in is is something that benefits the team going forward over, say, Samberg or even Kovacevic.

It would be interesting to compare the two in a world where Heinola had Stanley's consistent minutes, steady workload and heavy sheltering. My bet is that he would have significantly outperformed him, but who knows?

To my eyes, Heinola is smarter, better positionally, more efficient in retrieval and boxing out, has a sharper first pass, is more aggressive in the O zone, can run the line on the PP or in the zone, and is far more mobile.

Stanley is obviously stronger, can use his size (but often doesn't), has a sneaky release and deceptively good passing ability, will pull the Beaulieu and fight. He is far more prone to gaffes and IMO has much less upside -- he's now D+6, and a lot closer to his prime years.

It's the Who knows? that is the problem with the Jets' young D situation. We played a succession of plugs over prospects for years, and now some of those prospects are ageing out and have waiver concerns. This org has been reluctant to integrate young defensive talent early and while I understand some of the reasons, there are clear costs IMO.

There is no doubt in my mind and I’ve stated it many times that I fully expect Heinola to be significantly better than Stanley.

But I’ve seen numerous times people stating Heinola played better than Stanley this year and the only reason Stanley played ahead of Heinola was size, but Heinola certainly was not better than Stanley this year.

People can come up with whatever reasons/excuses for why Heinola wasn’t better than Stanley and many/most will probably be valid but that fact is Heinola wasn’t better than Stanley this year yet people keep saying he was.

 

[Ducky10]

There is no doubt in my mind and I’ve stated it many times that I fully expect Heinola to be significantly better than Stanley.

But I’ve seen numerous times people stating Heinola played better than Stanley this year and the only reason Stanley played ahead of Heinola was size, but Heinola certainly was not better than Stanley this year.

People can come up with whatever reasons/excuses for why Heinola wasn’t better than Stanley and many/most will probably be valid but that fact is Heinola wasn’t better than Stanley this year yet people keep saying he was.

But I think part of the point was that he wasn’t any worse,in any meaningful way. Which in itself doesn’t say much for Stanley based on the difference in age and relevant experience. The conversation isn’t so black and white and obviously involves projection as well.
Ok, Heinola wasn’t statistically any better than Stanley this season, but he’s going to be. That’s kind of the point.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

But I think part of the point was that he wasn’t any worse,in any meaningful way. Which in itself doesn’t say much for Stanley based on the difference in age and relevant experience. The conversation isn’t so black and white and obviously involves projection as well.
Ok, Heinola wasn’t statistically any better than Stanley this season, but he’s going to be. That’s kind of the point.

Again, all I’m saying is for the people that are stating Heinola was better than Stanley this year that just isn’t true, of course I would have rather seen more of Heinola this year and less of Stanley but that doesn’t change the fact that Heinola wasnt better than Stanley yet I’ve heard many times that he was.

 

[Channelcat]

Have to agree to disagree then. If the Jets would look to trade Helle, I wouldn't want them hamstrung to a team that has a goalie coming back in the trade. I'd rather they get the best package they can and find a goalie another way.

While not all goalies are equal.....they do seem to be a product of their teams system. Guys like Sorokin, Jarry, Kuemper weren't considered elite, but they are among the league leaders. I think with goalies you need #1 -a defensive system #2 -luck. I wouldn't commit long term money to ANY goalie. It has never worked.

 

[LowLefty]

But I think part of the point was that he wasn’t any worse,in any meaningful way. Which in itself doesn’t say much for Stanley based on the difference in age and relevant experience. The conversation isn’t so black and white and obviously involves projection as well.
Ok, Heinola wasn’t statistically any better than Stanley this season, but he’s going to be. That’s kind of the point.

I think the org wasn't prepared to give up on Stan at this point in his career - so they gave him more minutes in order to determine what they have and the level of potential.
He was surpassed by Samberg late in the season - and probably would have been subbed out sooner if Samberg wasn't dealing with injuries. It appears as though they wanted to add size and Samberg filled that role over Stan - which is fair.

Ville, OTOH, was the youngest of the bunch and the urgency wasn't there - the org may have been more interested in evaluating the older group first - and - it would give Ville a little more time to physically mature.

It's not like adding Ville was going to put us over the top - in fact, throwing him into the mix (of a struggling D) that was getting run over most nights, may not have been the best step for his development.

I don't see any major issue with how they handled this.
Ville will get his shot and hopefully, with new coaching on the horizon, the delay might be a blessing.

 

[Weezeric]

I think the org wasn't prepared to give up on Stan at this point in his career - so they gave him more minutes in order to determine what they have and the level of potential.
He was surpassed by Samberg late in the season - and probably would have been subbed out sooner if Samberg wasn't dealing with injuries. It appears as though they wanted to add size and Samberg filled that role over Stan - which is fair.

Ville, OTOH, was the youngest of the bunch and the urgency wasn't there - the org may have been more interested in evaluating the older group first - and - it would give Ville a little more time to physically mature.

It's not like adding Ville was going to put us over the top - in fact, throwing him into the mix (of a struggling D) that was getting run over most nights, may not have been the best step for his development.

I don't see any major issue with how they handled this.
Ville will get his shot and hopefully, with new coaching on the horizon, the delay might be a blessing.

The defence will be really good if they can get rid of one or both of Schmidt and Dillon, which is kind of a shame after the positive reaction to when they were acquired. You’ve got Samberg-Pionk as a pair, then Morrissey and Heinola on the left side with Demelo and someone else.

 

[JetsUK]

The defence will be really good if they can get rid of one or both of Schmidt and Dillon, which is kind of a shame after the positive reaction to when they were acquired. You’ve got Samberg-Pionk as a pair, then Morrissey and Heinola on the left side with Demelo and someone else.

Agree. If they can pull it off without giving up assets (Dillon maybe easier to move?) then we should be in better shape.

I don't see them moving Schmidt, which is fine if they have the cap room. He's clearly still useful with better deployment and as a mentor to Ville and others.

 

[Ducky10]

Again, all I’m saying is for the people that are stating Heinola was better than Stanley this year that just isn’t true, of course I would have rather seen more of Heinola this year and less of Stanley but that doesn’t change the fact that Heinola wasnt better than Stanley yet I’ve heard many times that he was.

Sure, I guess just looking at it in such narrow terms. You’re right, but I think the discussion goes further.

 

[Ducky10]

I think the org wasn't prepared to give up on Stan at this point in his career - so they gave him more minutes in order to determine what they have and the level of potential.
He was surpassed by Samberg late in the season - and probably would have been subbed out sooner if Samberg wasn't dealing with injuries. It appears as though they wanted to add size and Samberg filled that role over Stan - which is fair.

Ville, OTOH, was the youngest of the bunch and the urgency wasn't there - the org may have been more interested in evaluating the older group first - and - it would give Ville a little more time to physically mature.

It's not like adding Ville was going to put us over the top - in fact, throwing him into the mix (of a struggling D) that was getting run over most nights, may not have been the best step for his development.

I don't see any major issue with how they handled this.
Ville will get his shot and hopefully, with new coaching on the horizon, the delay might be a blessing.

I don’t think there is anything terrible the Jets did in how they handled this. It doesn’t bother me to some great extent. Doesn’t make it handled well though. Ville shouldn’t have sat in a press box for as long as he did and Stanley should have come out of the lineup a bit more for him. Lord knows Beaulieu should have.

It’s not about Heinola putting us over the top. It’s just trying to integrate prospects as much as you can into the lineup as much as you can, to build them for the future. The biggest issue really was the Jets chasing the fantasy they were a playoff team. That’s where most of the short sighted decisions started.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Sure, I guess just looking at it in such narrow terms. You’re right, but I think the discussion goes further.

There was no discussion…..Someone in this thread said Heinola was better than Stanley the entire season, all I said was that wasn’t true, we weren’t discussing Heinola vs Stanley.

 

[Jet]

I mean he's been better than Stanley all season and we gift wrapped Stanley minutes every night.

Hopefully Chevy takes this team in a new direction. The message was stale from Maurice. It's stale from Scheifele and Wheeler. The room needs a reset and to build a round Morrissey/PLD/Connor/Ehlers and more young guys. Bring in some other veteran leadership if necessary but our shit stinks.

Just because one was done doesn't mean the other should be.

If Heinola earns a spot he should play. If he earns special teams minutes he should get them. If he earns 2nd pair minutes, well, you get it.

Hopefully the new coach play players based on performance, I guess we'll see.

 

[Jet]

Agree. If they can pull it off without giving up assets (Dillon maybe easier to move?) then we should be in better shape.

I don't see them moving Schmidt, which is fine if they have the cap room. He's clearly still useful with better deployment and as a mentor to Ville and others.

We keep wanting to replace defensemen but they are playing a shitty system. It reminds me of the Oilers turnstile at G.

Let's fix the systems first and then see where we're at.

 

[LowLefty]

I don’t think there is anything terrible the Jets did in how they handled this. It doesn’t bother me to some great extent. Doesn’t make it handled well though. Ville shouldn’t have sat in a press box for as long as he did and Stanley should have come out of the lineup a bit more for him. Lord knows Beaulieu should have.

It’s not about Heinola putting us over the top. It’s just trying to integrate prospects as much as you can into the lineup as much as you can, to build them for the future. The biggest issue really was the Jets chasing the fantasy they were a playoff team. That’s where most of the short sighted decisions started.

I agree - it was more about allowing the guys their reps - and Ville should not have been the press box Dman.

I also think Ville will get his opportunities - I still believe they worked on Stan to confirm where he stands at the age of 24 -
Regardless, it's in the past - Ville now has to find a way in around Samberg - who I think is staying in.
Or he fits in after some movement of other players - who knows what that will look like.

They will all get an opportunity next season - time to move on.