Speculation: Free Agency

[Shruggs Peterson]

Pietrangelo signing in Vegas for 7 years @ 8.8 Million per year.

Anyone want to guess what that contract would have looked like if it was signed in the summer of 2019?

Karlsson's was 8 years @ 11.5 per year. Maybe the same?

Oh I don't think it would have been that high.

I seem to recall that the dollar amount floating around last year was around 9.5/year, but I can't remember where that was from.

It's a nice deal for Vegas, who desperately needed another RHD. Let's see what they do MAF and Schmidt with them being 7 mil over the cap lol

 

[Micklebot]

He might be. But he might come into camp and surprise. Button was high on him and he's been in the khl for years. It's not like they don't acquire players this way.

Honestly, I liked him as an acquisition, which is why I was confused about the J.Brown trade since as far as I could tell that was the role Zub was expected to play, then we added Gudbranson and it became even more murky.

In theory, you can never have too many quality D-men, so I guess we'll be fine, and injuries always happen, likely more than usual with some much time off since they last played.

 

[TheDebater]

I'm hoping you can see the difference between a good, young top-4 D and a couple of bottom-pairing scrubs and that this isn't the strawman it appears to be.

The way I see it is we (I will include myself) tend to see things generally from one perspective and eliminate all other possibilities. Since the Gudbranson trade, there have been some pretty determined members trying to plant the "bad asset management" theory into every discussion because they are convinced that things are black or white.

Asset management can be viewed from another perspective which everyone (most) want to ignore, and that is Dorion has potentially turned a 4th and a 5th into two, not young but certainly not old defensemen in what could be considered their prime.

If both Brown and Gudbranson find some stability and consistency here in Ottawa, we will look back at these moves as being brilliant. I am not guaranteeing this, but I am also not the type to make an absolute statement about something before I give myself a chance to see how it plays out.

 

[TheDebater]

Not saying we could've gotten specifically Gudbranson, Watson or Brown for free. I'm saying if bottom pairing defensemen or 4th line players are what we want to target, why not get those guys in free agency. You're telling me we can't get those types of guys in Free Agency? There is a boat load of those guys available on the open market every year, this year is no different.

And I know the retort would be *Well what if they don't sign with us !?!*. Supply and Demand. There is tons of bottom line players available and not many roster spots. If we were to offer them a contract for the salary we are paying Brown or Watson, they are signing don't matter which team it is.

I have noticed a trend with some members and it appears that nothing Dorion does can please them. You bring up an excellent point asking why Dorion does not sign players "for free" during free agency, but if I recall the reaction last summer when Hainsey and Ennis were signed, the reaction was typical as well.

So unfortunately, whether we pay assets or sign with money, some fans simply do not accept that certain players should be acquired.

 

[JD1]

I said we should look at taking on Johnson if it meant getting Tampa's 2021 1st for doing it.

That is a trade that would be a win in the short-term and long-term, and it's exactly how Dorion should have taken advantage of our valuable cap space.

Take on 20M in contract for a player that won't live up to the contract, that's small and on the down side of his career for what's likely a late 1st rounder


What's the word you've been using a lot these past few days....stupid!!!

 

[JD1]

Honestly, I liked him as an acquisition, which is why I was confused about the J.Brown trade since as far as I could tell that was the role Zub was expected to play, then we added Gudbranson and it became even more murky.

In theory, you can never have too many quality D-men, so I guess we'll be fine, and injuries always happen, likely more than usual with some much time off since they last played.

I kinda view both Brown and Gudbranson as low cost acquisitions. We've got a lot of right side D coming, a wild card in Zub, and a younger team that needs some protection. Stop gaps. The cap hits and salary don't matter this year...not one bit. Older guys that can insulate and pass the torch. We had an absolute ton of draft capital. They used some of it

Oh and hey....to defend myself against being an apologist (not saying you're calling me one) going back over a month ago i was saying i didn't think we'd be adding pieces of substance. Protection and filler. See what you've got in the kids. Let them play. Identify your gaps and make moves for quality to fill holes next year. And that's what they've done. Well, I guess it remains to be seen that they add that quality next year, but strategy wise i just didn't see them getting top end players to add to the core this year

 

[BondraTime]

Ok...so how do you think Toews compares to Zub? Are they equivalent? We got zub for free? Talking heads saying top 4 potential.

Think he's far, far ahead, until proven otherwise.

He was a top 4 D on a contending team in the NHL, Zub's a UFA signing out of Russia, I'd be surprised if he was a top 4 option once the team was trying to compete. He's likely to be a healthy at times this year with Zaitsev, Gudb, and Brown here.

I'm not saying we should have gotten Toews, or complaining we never. A guy like him is well worth the price, as he can be a core piece to a team as a complementary top 4 piece, which he will be paired with Makar this year.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Take on 20M in contract for a player that won't live up to the contract, that's small and on the down side of his career for what's likely a late 1st rounder


What's the word you've been using a lot these past few days....stupid!!!

Well a first is still valuable, but it's not like cap space means much to us. We're the ones to give up a pick for others to eat salary.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Take on 20M in contract for a player that won't live up to the contract, that's small and on the down side of his career for what's likely a late 1st rounder


What's the word you've been using a lot these past few days....stupid!!!

4.375M average salary for the next 4YRs for a guy who can still be a 2nd line scorer is not that bad of a deal.

There's also a decent chance that he could be taken by Seattle in expansion given he's from Washington State.

Worth taking on to acquire a 1st for sure.

 

[GCK]

Not to mention the outrage comes more from the fact that we’re overpaying 4th liners and bottom pairing d-men while we can’t improve our top-6 due to budget restraints.

That’s where you get it wrong. We would improve our top 6 if there was a young forward available. We aren’t going to try for a short term fix we need a player that fits. Unfortunately we don’t have the right fits to get Laine and I’m not sure who else on the market fits the profile. If you know of some young, sub 25 top 6 players available please share them.

 

[JD1]

Think he's far, far ahead, until proven otherwise.

He was a top 4 D on a contending team in the NHL, Zub's a UFA signing out of Russia, I'd be surprised if he was a top 4 option once the team was trying to compete. He's likely to be a healthy at times this year with Zaitsev, Gudb, and Brown here.

I'm not saying we should have gotten Toews, or complaining we never. A guy like him is well worth the price, as he can be a core piece to a team as a complementary top 4 piece, which he will be paired with Makar this year.

Toews is 18 months older than Zub and coming off his first year of top 4 ice and it's only marginal in terms of ice time.

Zub obviously needs to jump to the best league in the world and see how that goes, but i think all the way along at similar ages Zub was playing higher level hockey. Zub was playing KHL hockey at an age where Toews was in college.

Toews has a season and a half in the NHL. Prior to that he played AHL and college. He's 18 months older. At the same age, Zub's played 5 years in the KHL, in the Olympics, the world juniors, the u18 worlds, and 3 world championships.

Toews resume at the same age isn't close, not in the same ball park.

I'll grant you that Zub has to prove his NHL worth, but he was playing with the likes of Panarin and Kucherov when he was 21

 

[GCK]

Gudbransson.

While I thought the Gudbranson trade was unnecessary, he played 20 minutes a night in Anaheim and had a +/- of zero. If it turns out to be a bust who cares it’s one year. If it works out great.

 

[JD1]

4.375M average salary for the next 4YRs for a guy who can still be a 2nd line scorer is not that bad of a deal.

There's also a decent chance that he could be taken by Seattle in expansion given he's from Washington State.

Worth taking on to acquire a 1st for sure.

No, it's not.

Teams can protect 4 players up front. Him going to Seattle is far from certain.

How long would he be a 2nd line player here? If our prospects all bust sure....but then we have bigger problems don't we?

30 of 30 GMs passed om him the other day for free. None of the teams on his list wanted to trade for him. And you're jumping up and down screaming asset mgmt .

Geezus

 

[Gil Gunderson]

That’s where you get it wrong. We would improve our top 6 if there was a young forward available. We aren’t going to try for a short term fix we need a player that fits. Unfortunately we don’t have the right fits to get Laine and I’m not sure who else on the market fits the profile. If you know of some young, sub 25 top 6 players available please share them.

Having vets who can still play is an overlooked part of a rebuild. Look at Chicago, LA, And Pittsburgh before they won Cups. Pittsburgh had Recchi and Gonchar, LA had Smyth, Chicago had Havlat. A lot of players on Philly and Florida have given a lot of credit to Jagr as well.

It’s great that we have tough guys to protect the rookies, but they need help offensively too. A “short-term fix” could very well be worth the investment long-term.

 

[GCK]

4.375M average salary for the next 4YRs for a guy who can still be a 2nd line scorer is not that bad of a deal.

There's also a decent chance that he could be taken by Seattle in expansion given he's from Washington State.

Worth taking on to acquire a 1st for sure.

How can we pull that off though. He gave Tampa 8 teams to work with, do you think we were on it ?

 

[BondraTime]

Toews is 18 months older than Zub and coming off his first year of top 4 ice and it's only marginal in terms of ice time.

Zub obviously needs to jump to the best league in the world and see how that goes, but i think all the way along at similar ages Zub was playing higher level hockey. Zub was playing KHL hockey at an age where Toews was in college.

Toews has a season and a half in the NHL. Prior to that he played AHL and college. He's 18 months older. At the same age, Zub's played 5 years in the KHL, in the Olympics, the world juniors, the u18 worlds, and 3 world championships.

Toews resume at the same age isn't close, not in the same ball park.

I'll grant you that Zub has to prove his NHL worth, but he was playing with the likes of Panarin and Kucherov when he was 21

I take Toews resume of 86 points in 130 AHL games and 18 points in half an NHL season. plus looking great in the playoffs at the age of 25, especially if it's about finding an NHL player at that time. Accolades are in Zub's favour. Toews would have been up earlier if not for missing more than half his 23/24 year old season to injury

Zaitsev is the best KHL UFA D signing out of the past 10 or so years, he had accomplished more than Zub at a younger age. Zub turning in to another Zaitsev would be at the highest end of successes in KHL UFA's on D in a decade, and I take Toews over that, so I'd place my bets pretty heavily on Toews.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Vancouver is now another team close to the cap before signing RFA's. There are going to be some UFA's that have limited options for landing spots.

Maybe even affordable enough for Melnyk.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Vancouver gets Nate Schmidt practically for free.

 

[benjiv1]

Vancouver gets Nate Schmidt practically for free.

LHD @ 6M with 5 years left on his contract. Would love him in the short term but not at the expense of blocking out Sanderson, Brannstrom and Wooly in a couple of years.

Also has a NTC which likely includes Ottawa.

 

[Micklebot]

How can we pull that off though. He gave Tampa 8 teams to work with, do you think we were on it ?

It's too late now, it would have had to have been done as a side deal to picking him up off waivers, which would have looked fishy as heck,

 

[Wallet Inspector]

LHD @ 6M with 5 years left on his contract. Would love him in the short term but not at the expense of blocking out Sanderson, Brannstrom and Wooly in a couple of years.

Also has a NTC which likely includes Ottawa.

Wasn't saying we should have made the deal instead, just commenting how good it was for them.

 

[GCK]

It's too late now, it would have had to have been done as a side deal to picking him up off waivers, which would have looked fishy as heck,

I’m pretty sure the league and especially the PA would freak about that although I was thinking it might happen.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Wow, what a deal for Vancouver.

 

[GCK]

Vancouver gets Nate Schmidt practically for free.

You say for free but if Nate Schmidt was a UFA I highly doubt he would get the contract he’s bringing to Vancouver. That’s a lot of dollars and term for a team that just let Markstrom, Toffoli, Tanev and Stecher walk. Odd move.

 

[dumbdick]

So much for Pietro to Toronto. Internet gets it wrong again.