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[drpepper]

Meh. Most of those guys you listed are playing on 4th lines. Spaling's a 3rd line player. Putting Glass on there is insulting to Spaling and actually hurts your argument.

Spaling should be a fourth line player on a contending team.

 

[Shady Machine]

Spaling should be a fourth line player on a contending team.

If you say so.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Meh. Most of those guys you listed are playing on 4th lines. Spaling's a 3rd line player. Putting Glass on there is insulting to Spaling and actually hurts your argument.

When has Spaling proved he's not a 3rd/4th line tweener, which is what a lot of the guys I listed have been throughout their careers? He's more than likely going to play on the Pens' 4th line this year, especially if JR actually brings in a top six winger and Dupuis gets bumped down to line 3.

The Glass addition was obviously a joke.

Spaling is no better than a guy like Dominic Moore at this point. Yet he should be paid a million more?

 

[Shady Machine]

So you agree. 2-2.5 is fair.

2-2.3

 

[Shady Machine]

When has Spaling proved he's not a 3rd/4th line tweener, which is what a lot of the guys I listed have been throughout their careers? He's more than likely going to play on the Pens' 4th line this year, especially if JR actually brings in a top six winger and Dupuis gets bumped down to line 3.

The Glass addition was obviously a joke.

Spaling is no better than a guy like Dominic Moore at this point. Yet he should be paid a million more?

Well Spaling scored 13 goals and 32 points just last season. He is 25 and is on the upswing of his career. Moore hasn't put up that same production since 2010-2011 season and only twice in his career. It may be a big if, but if Spaling continues this trajectory, he's a more valuable player than Moore by about 10-15 points. Is that worth a million more?

If the Pens feel last year was a fluke, then 1.) they shouldn't have traded for him and 2.) should only sign him to a 1 year prove it contract.

 

[IcedCapp]

Youre right, 25's way too old to hit your potential. He cant possibly become a better player than Stempniak at 31.

Nick Spaling, Year-by-Year:


28 games, 3pts (0-3)
74 games, 14pts (8-6)
77 games, 22pts (10-12)
47 games, 13pts (9-4)
71 games, 32pts (13-19)


Lee Stempniak, Year-by-Year

57 games, 27pts (14-13)
82 games, 52pts (27-25)
80 games, 38pts (13-25)
14 games, 13pts (3-10) / 61games, 31pts (11-20) (split between STL and TOR)

62 games, 30pts (14-16), 18 games, 18pts (4-18) (split between TOR and PHX)

82games, 38pts (19-19)
61 games, 28pts (14-14)
47games, 32pts (9-23)

52games, 23pts (8-15), 21games, 11pts (4-7) (split between CGY and Pittsburgh)


Lee Stempniak, from the beginning of his career, has been a much better player than Nick Spaling. It's not even remotely close. Nick Spaling reaching Lee Stempniak's level would be a major accomplishment, given the fact taht he's reached 30pts ONCE in 5 seasons, and Lee Stempniak has done it in every year in which he's played a full season.

 

[Riptide]

Absolutely.

The whole problem with the Shero Era was falling in love with marginal players. Now we're looking at 6M for our 3C and his winger, and if Dupuis is, by the grace of God, on the 3rd line, you're looking at a 10MM 3rd line?

And our 4th line C will make twice as much this year as last year?

More money spent in the bottom-6 means even less in the top-6.

Except that istead of having **** for a bottom 6, we actually have a pretty good group. One that can hopefully contribute offensively when our stars get shutdown.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Except that istead of having **** for a bottom 6, we actually have a pretty good group. One that can hopefully contribute offensively when our stars get shutdown.

You are stating things that I agree with completely.

And have been doing so for some time now.

That alone should make you rethink your opinions.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well Spaling scored 13 goals and 32 points just last season. He is 25 and is on the upswing of his career. Moore hasn't put up that same production since 2010-2011 season.

He also shot a likely unsustainable 15.8%, too. He generated 85 shots all season. Unless he keeps up an almost 16% shooting percentage, you're not going to see a repeat of his career totals.

The bottom line is, when you're a team like the Pens and desperately need every bit of cap space you can find to upgrade your top six, you have to be frugal with your bottom six. You can't afford to tie up $2.5 million on Spaling when you can find similar options for much less.

 

[IcedCapp]

Except that istead of having **** for a bottom 6, we actually have a pretty good group. One that can hopefully contribute offensively when our stars get shutdown.

No you don't have a pretty good group.

You have a group that is infinitely better than Glass, Adams and Pyatt, but Comeau, Downie, Goc, Spaling, and Sutter are not "pretty good."

1) Multiple people said, "gosh, hope we don't sign Comeau this year," until he was signed, then somehow he became a great player.

2) Downie may turn it around. Or he may not. We all need to stop assuming that he will.

3) Goc is a fine player. I like him. But he is not offensively gifted.

4) Spaling has had ONE GOOD YEAR IN HIS CAREER. You do NOT PAY PLAYERS FOR A CAREER YEAR. You know what you do when a 3rd/4th line tweener has a career year?

You fool some GM into thinking that career year is who the player is, and make him part of a package for a legit top-6 player before you have to pay him too much.

5) Do I need to pull up all the Brandon Sutter posts from last year?

The Penguins went from the 31st-best Bottom-6 in the league to something like the 15th-best. It's a huge improvement, but it's an improvement in comparison to what they had, not to what they are going up against league-wide. None of the players in the Pens' bottom-6 are what anyone outside of this board would call "elite bottom-6 players"

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think people are being melodramatic with Spaling. 2-2.5 mil is fair for a third liner.

But say we didnt acquire him and instead took a flier on Booth. Whats our bottom six look like in 2015-16? Lot of question marks and relying on retaining UFAs.

But is that what we should be spending on one when we might already have two 3rd liners making 3+ mil, and two top 6 wingers making 1 mil or less?

If we retain all of Dupes, Sutter, and Spaling, and Downie makes the top 6, that's what we're looking at. It'd be a pretty dubious allocation of cap space.

Should we sign Spaling to a deal at 2+ mil, one of Dupes or Sutter better be on their way out in short order.

 

[Shady Machine]

He also shot a likely unsustainable 15.8%, too. He generated 85 shots all season. Unless he keeps up an almost 16% shooting percentage, you're not going to see a repeat of his career totals.

The bottom line is, when you're a team like the Pens and desperately need every bit of cap space you can find to upgrade your top six, you have to be frugal with your bottom six. You can't afford to tie up $2.5 million on Spaling when you can find similar options for much less.

I don't disagree actually. I'm just saying you are selling Spaling short by putting him with mostly 4th liners. I think he's better than that. I don't want to pay Spaling 2.5 per, but I didn't realize that was a realistic option a few weeks ago.

 

[bigG]

Andy Strickland
@andystrickland
#stlblues have been interested in Peter Mueller since last April. Signs for $700/$250 with $350 guarantee

4:14pm · 29 Jul 2014 · Twitter for Android


#steal

 

[mpp9]

Nick Spaling, Year-by-Year:


28 games, 3pts (0-3)
74 games, 14pts (8-6)
77 games, 22pts (10-12)
47 games, 13pts (9-4)
71 games, 32pts (13-19)


Lee Stempniak, Year-by-Year

57 games, 27pts (14-13)
82 games, 52pts (27-25)
80 games, 38pts (13-25)
14 games, 13pts (3-10) / 61games, 31pts (11-20) (split between STL and TOR)

62 games, 30pts (14-16), 18 games, 18pts (4-18) (split between TOR and PHX)

82games, 38pts (19-19)
61 games, 28pts (14-14)
47games, 32pts (9-23)

52games, 23pts (8-15), 21games, 11pts (4-7) (split between CGY and Pittsburgh)


Lee Stempniak, from the beginning of his career, has been a much better player than Nick Spaling. It's not even remotely close. Nick Spaling reaching Lee Stempniak's level would be a major accomplishment, given the fact taht he's reached 30pts ONCE in 5 seasons, and Lee Stempniak has done it in every year in which he's played a full season.

Spaling has been trending upwards despite playing in a place where offense goes to die. You assume he'll regress. Im saying hes in his prime and will likely remain a 30+ pt legit third line player. Stemp will only get worse. Spaling's entering his prime.

 

[drpepper]

If you say so.

I just don't see anything in what he's done (stats, video, reputation) that would suggest otherwise. He's not physical. His offensive numbers have come on the back of top 6 minutes, good linemates, offensive zone starts, and power play time - very little of which he'll have with the Pens. His more advanced stats are horrible on a team with similar possession stats as the Pens and playing with quality teammates. He PKs but so does Sutter, Goc, Dupuis, Comeau. I think defensively he's a step below Sutter, Dupuis and Goc in both team defense and 1v1.

I hope he comes in this season and makes me eat my words.

But his biggest strengths are hard work and versatility but even Nashville fans saw him as a replaceable part not worth more than $2 million.

 

[mpp9]

But is that what we should be spending on one when we might already have two 3rd liners making 3+ mil, and two top 6 wingers making 1 mil or less?

If we retain all of Dupes, Sutter, and Spaling, and Downie makes the top 6, that's what we're looking at. It'd be a pretty dubious allocation of cap space.

Should we sign Spaling to a deal at 2+ mil, one of Dupes or Sutter better be on their way out in short order.

Id sign him to a one year prove it deal. Deal with him as a RFA next summer.

We need longterm solutions at forward. We have guys on one year deals. Aging vets. And a **** forward pipeline.

I think if we retain both Spaling and Sutter, the cap space and assets for a top 6 winger will come from the defense.

I just dont get the overreaction. But if you thought he was taking his QO, I guess you would be upset. I thought around 2. Maybe more if he has a good agent who can sell his last season.

 

[billybudd]

I think all of us should admit that none of us know a damned thing about Nick Spaling. I know I don't.

 

[Hottubber]

I think all of us should admit that none of us know a damned thing about Nick Spaling. I know I don't.

No kidding. Its funny that when the pens made the trade, hardly any posters knew anything about Spaling, and now there are a ton of posters chiming in knowing a ton about the guy (good and bad)

 

[IcedCapp]

Spaling has been trending upwards despite playing in a place where offense goes to die. You assume he'll regress. Im saying hes in his prime and will likely remain a 30+ pt legit third line player. Stemp will only get worse. Spaling's entering his prime.

show me where I said he'll regress. I won't hold my breath

 

[drpepper]

No kidding. Its funny that when the pens made the trade, hardly any posters knew anything about Spaling, and now there are a ton of posters chiming in knowing a ton about the guy (good and bad)

I think all of us should admit that none of us know a damned thing about Nick Spaling. I know I don't.

It's been a couple weeks (in the off-season for a lot of sports). It doesn't take that much time to watch a some games, see some highlight videos, read some blogs and look at some stats.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

But is that what we should be spending on one when we might already have two 3rd liners making 3+ mil, and two top 6 wingers making 1 mil or less?

If we retain all of Dupes, Sutter, and Spaling, and Downie makes the top 6, that's what we're looking at. It'd be a pretty dubious allocation of cap space.

Should we sign Spaling to a deal at 2+ mil, one of Dupes or Sutter better be on their way out in short order.

This is what I want, hell, do both. Spaling making 2+ is so much more appealing to me than a 35 year old who blew out his knee making 3.75 and Sutter making around 3.5. If they don't translate having Spaling into using someone like Sutter in a trade for top 6 help on the wing that will be the problem, at least jettison Dupuis. Also Scuderi. It only ends badly if they make it end badly.

Who the hell knows with this team. They'll probably find a way to keep everyone for the worse because the more things change the more they stay the same... values are in the dumpster for Scuderi and Dupuis as well.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think all of us should admit that none of us know a damned thing about Nick Spaling. I know I don't.

That's fair. I noticed him in a positive way a few times when watching Nashville here and there the past 2 seasons. But yeah, other than generally knowing who he was and stat watching, I don't really know what type of player he can be.

 

[mpp9]

I think all of us should admit that none of us know a damned thing about Nick Spaling. I know I don't.

Im going by what Preds fans have said about him and what articles have been written about him.

Maybe Im overvaluing him. But weve done pretty well in the past with throw ins in deals. I choose to think he can build on what hes done so far.

 

[IcedCapp]

Im going by what Preds fans have said about him and what articles have been written about him.

Maybe Im overvaluing him. But weve done pretty well in the past with throw ins in deals. I choose to think he can build on what hes done so far.

everything written about him by the media on the day of the trade called him a 3rd/4th-line tweener. Now he's a top-6 hopeful?

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

No you don't have a pretty good group.

You have a group that is infinitely better than Glass, Adams and Pyatt, but Comeau, Downie, Goc, Spaling, and Sutter are not "pretty good."

1) Multiple people said, "gosh, hope we don't sign Comeau this year," until he was signed, then somehow he became a great player.

2) Downie may turn it around. Or he may not. We all need to stop assuming that he will.

3) Goc is a fine player. I like him. But he is not offensively gifted.

4) Spaling has had ONE GOOD YEAR IN HIS CAREER. You do NOT PAY PLAYERS FOR A CAREER YEAR. You know what you do when a 3rd/4th line tweener has a career year?

You fool some GM into thinking that career year is who the player is, and make him part of a package for a legit top-6 player before you have to pay him too much.

5) Do I need to pull up all the Brandon Sutter posts from last year?

The Penguins went from the 31st-best Bottom-6 in the league to something like the 15th-best. It's a huge improvement, but it's an improvement in comparison to what they had, not to what they are going up against league-wide. None of the players in the Pens' bottom-6 are what anyone outside of this board would call "elite bottom-6 players"

This post is pretty spot on.