GDT: Free Agency / Fantasy GM Part 6

[Fatass]

My vision is fine. I remember a time when HF Boards were devastated Hutton wasn’t qualified. He may be out of the league shortly. Stecher likely will be as well after his time w DET. I mean he is no Biega afterall

Stecher is always prepared, and is totally professional. Hutton was not, and his play suffered as a consequence of that. So Troy was actually a positive player for us, who we will miss. It’s insane we have guys like Loui, Baer, Sutter, Beagle, and Rousell (who have contracts with term, so we have to keep them) forcing out a guy like Troy. That’s really bad for for our team, and it’s 100% Benning.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

Not to mention, if Juolevi or Rathbone can't cut it either due to needing more seasoning in the AHL or simply being bad players. We effectively don't have a third pairing. You want your young core to push guys like Stecher down the line-up or out of it entirely because they're simply better. You shouldn't be gifting said young players a spot and hoping it works out.

Very good point, I would agree there

Until Myers got here to take the load off, the Canucks were always an Edler, Tanev (usually both) injury away from collapse..The current top 4 is the strongest it's been in Bennings tenure.

Clearly, the management didn't rate Stecher that highly.

I think, given the chance, the young D will do well..All they're asking is for a chance..I'd rather roll with them, than blocking them with a dumpster dive veteran D man.

I agree it's probably the best top 4 the Canucks have had in a while

Still very top heavy, however. The lack of proven depth is a concern, but we'll see, perhaps it'll work out ok

 

[I am toxic]

What is all this crap..?...satirical commentary from the echo chamber?....Obviously not here to discuss hockey?

The ignore button is your friend.

 

[4Twenty]

Until Myers got here to take the load off, the Canucks were always an Edler, Tanev (usually both) injury away from collapse..The current top 4 is the strongest it's been in Bennings tenure.

Clearly, the management didn't rate Stecher that highly.

I think, given the chance, the young D will do well..All they're asking is for a chance..I'd rather roll with them, than blocking them with a dumpster dive veteran D man.

The Idea Myers took the load off is a theory that only you seem to subscribe too.

I debunked this a few days ago.

Edler’s minutes went down because of Hughes on PP 1.

Tanev got completely new protective equipment.

Myers didn’t play tougher minutes than Stecher at 5 on 5. I know you just look at minute totals in your evaluation so I’m not sure why I’m bothering. Probably the same reason anyone replies to you....to refute your narratives.

Stecher and Edler was a pair 60% of the season. They faced the top matchup. When Myers and Edler were together they didn’t and weren’t as successful at keeping goals out. Per 60 in more offensive minutes Myers marginally out scored Stecher but gave up a lot more goals.

Edler Stecher started 30-35% in the D zone. Myers Edler 45-50%.

Green trusted Myers to play more minutes but not high leverage minutes. That’s why most of his season was spent playing 3rd and 4th lines with Fantenberg.

Interesting you didn’t want them rolling with young players without veteran trash for years but now it’s fine because they backed themselves into this corner. You have dumpster vets on the squad that just cost more than usual dumpster trash.


Here is a well delivered counter to you. Do you one liner it and run or bring something new to the discussion to back your claims.

A counter isn’t quoting an article by Ed Willes.

Stecher in tough 5 on 5 minutes mostly against good liners with Edler in non offensive opportunities was on for 34 goals against.


Myers was on for 58 mostly as a soft 3rd pair or offensively utilized.

Schmidt is a definite upgrade on Tanev and Stecher but I think he’ll be hard pressed to get the same results Stecher did with edler and if Myers goes with Hughes they likely won’t be as good defensively as Hughes -Tanev.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Edit* is anyone scared that Schmidt was only on for 4 more goals for than against while being on a juggernaut offensive team. They’re so dominant only one D started more than 50% of their shifts in the D zone.

Schmidt 46 for 42 against

Stecher 44 for 34 against.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

There will likely be some young D on waivers with upside still when the season starts. Maybe we look at grabbing one of them? Caleb Jones is one I like that might be available?

 

[DonnyNucker]

Everytime a Canuck player leaves he sucks. It’s amazing to watch posters saying what a great signing Stecher was now say he’s garbage and glad he’s gone. Like f***ing clockwork.

Speaking for myself as the president of the Stecher sucks club...that’s not true. I still like Marky and Toffoli. I’m glad Tanev is gone and indifferent on Leivo. I’ve disliked Stecher for years

 

[StreetHawk]

Speaking for myself as the president of the Stecher sucks club...that’s not true. I still like Marky and Toffoli. I’m glad Tanev is gone and indifferent on Leivo. I’ve disliked Stecher for years

All of the free agents who left:
Markstrom, I was on team Demko and giving him a chance plus his age fits better.
Toffoli, he’s like the 5th best forward right now so I don’t want to commit term on him before Petey is taken care of.
Tanev, like him and I am weary on how he will hold up.
Leivo, major injury so who knows how he comes back. He doesn’t kill penalties so he won’t put Loui in the press box.
Stecher, like him but he was a cap casualty. He’s not a top 4 on a good team. But is pricing himself out of being a bottom pair of a good team. Probably is where he will be for the remainder of his career. On a weaker team to play until prospects develop. And then he moves on. He can still carve out a good career until 33 or so and.m earn $17-$20 mill in salary over his career.

 

[Peen]

I still don't understand why there's this assumption that Hutton wasn't a loss for us when he did pretty well this season and would have been one of our six best defenseman.

 

[Josepho]

How can someone watch Fantenberg-Myers (mostly Fantenberg) absolutely suck ass and sink our team while laughing at the idea of keeping Hutton

 

[StreetHawk]

I still don't understand why there's this assumption that Hutton wasn't a loss for us when he did pretty well this season and would have been one of our six best defenseman.

He’s a ufa right now and still not signed. No matter where he signs it will be for around the same as he made last year at most

 

[Hansen]

Benninger's Cat.

players are simultaneously incredible and absolute trash dependent until they are either on or off Benning's team

 

[4Twenty]

He’s a ufa right now and still not signed. No matter where he signs it will be for around the same as he made last year at most

What does this matter to the quality of the player?

Hutton imo is a better NHL player than Stecher and outside of his minutes with Erik Gudbranson has a pretty solid NHL track record.

I mean I guess you are what someone will pay you but on a team that’s paying some pretty ineffective players some bloated salaries I don’t quite get the appeal to nhl gm authority.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The Idea Myers took the load off is a theory that only you seem to subscribe too.

I debunked this a few days ago.

Edler’s minutes went down because of Hughes on PP 1.

Tanev got completely new protective equipment.

Myers didn’t play tougher minutes than Stecher at 5 on 5. I know you just look at minute totals in your evaluation so I’m not sure why I’m bothering. Probably the same reason anyone replies to you....to refute your narratives.

Stecher and Edler was a pair 60% of the season. They faced the top matchup. When Myers and Edler were together they didn’t and weren’t as successful at keeping goals out. Per 60 in more offensive minutes Myers marginally out scored Stecher but gave up a lot more goals.

Edler Stecher started 30-35% in the D zone. Myers Edler 45-50%.

Green trusted Myers to play more minutes but not high leverage minutes. That’s why most of his season was spent playing 3rd and 4th lines with Fantenberg.

Interesting you didn’t want them rolling with young players without veteran trash for years but now it’s fine because they backed themselves into this corner. You have dumpster vets on the squad that just cost more than usual dumpster trash.


Here is a well delivered counter to you. Do you one liner it and run or bring something new to the discussion to back your claims.

A counter isn’t quoting an article by Ed Willes.

Stecher in tough 5 on 5 minutes mostly against good liners with Edler in non offensive opportunities was on for 34 goals against.


Myers was on for 58 mostly as a soft 3rd pair or offensively utilized.

Schmidt is a definite upgrade on Tanev and Stecher but I think he’ll be hard pressed to get the same results Stecher did with edler and if Myers goes with Hughes they likely won’t be as good defensively as Hughes -Tanev.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Edit* is anyone scared that Schmidt was only on for 4 more goals for than against while being on a juggernaut offensive team. They’re so dominant only one D started more than 50% of their shifts in the D zone.

Schmidt 46 for 42 against

Stecher 44 for 34 against.

You debunked nothing..you got clearly debunked...How can a D man that played the most minutes at ES out of all D men , and played the 2nd unit PP and PK not be playing the 'tough minutes'...?...Troy Stecher doesnt even play on the PK?

How could Myers minutes not have a trickle down effect on Edler and Tanev minutes..?

Myers led all Vancouver defenders in average even-strength ice-time with 18:35. He might not have been the top dog when it came to special teams, but head coach Travis Green clearly trusted Myers in all situations — his powerplay and shorthanded minutes rank second and fourth, respectively, on this year’s defence corps.

Myers is having an excellent first year with the Canucks – good enough to have renowned analytics experts like Thomas Drance describing him as “the guy who has been second-best of the Canucks’ defenders [in 2019/20].”

Yes, I use sources to verify what I'm talking about..otherwise everybody on these boards would talking out of their a$$, and making stuff up..

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Everytime a Canuck player leaves he sucks. It’s amazing to watch posters saying what a great signing Stecher was now say he’s garbage and glad he’s gone. Like f***ing clockwork.

Agreed. I remember a certain poster calling Baertschi a coward and loser because he didn't join the bubble, too.

It's the most primal, tribalistic "you're either with us or against us!" polarizing mentality.

 

[StreetHawk]

What does this matter to the quality of the player?

Hutton imo is a better NHL player than Stecher and outside of his minutes with Erik Gudbranson has a pretty solid NHL track record.

I mean I guess you are what someone will pay you but on a team that’s paying some pretty ineffective players some bloated salaries I don’t quite get the appeal to nhl gm authority.

I personally don’t consider Hutton a loss. That is just my opinion.

i would think that if GMs regraded Hutton as highly as you that they would have scooped him up. He doesn’t exactly have a lot of leverage to be sitting and waiting for an offer with term or big dollars.

a signed contract is locked in stone. Can’t change it.

you make every Canucks who is of ufa age or at least having arbitration rights and who gets more than their current contract even in a pandemic?

miller, Horvat, Demko seem most likely.
Motte, Schmidt, Virtanen seem like they are where they should be.
Pearson, Sutter, Eriksson, Roussel, Beagle, Ferland, Sven, Myers, Edler, Would get less in this market.

clearly they have a lot of overpaid contracts.

you can like Hutton but there is something about his game which GMs don’t like enough to get him signed right now.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Hutton was much better than Jamie Benn last year, and costing 3/4 the price. Hutton was better at not getting scored on with a rebuilding team with much worse goaltending. He could be used on the bottom pairing with Roy, or the top 2 pairings with Martinez and Doughty.

Stecher for years has excelled at not getting scored on ES and the PK, but is bad because there might be a several goals a year caused by his size.

Defensive ability is much more important than size.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I personally don’t consider Hutton a loss. That is just my opinion.

i would think that if GMs regraded Hutton as highly as you that they would have scooped him up. He doesn’t exactly have a lot of leverage to be sitting and waiting for an offer with term or big dollars.

I don't have a problem moving on from Hutton, but I would rather had him on the team than Benn. He was better in LA than he was here though.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't have a problem moving on from Hutton, but I would rather had him on the team than Benn. He was better in LA than he was here though.

I think you could say the same for Benn in that he was better in Montreal than he was here.

 

[4Twenty]

@pom just saying if you take out the name Tyler Myers and put in Ben Hutton and go back a year all the same things are true with regards to ice time and ranks on the pp and pk. It’s why I was trying to discuss utility (who they play against/used offensively or defensively) but you just want to use usage. The Ben Hutton comparisons shows the issue with just looking who plays the minutes.

Myers certainly brought more offensively (especially with Hughes) but I think you’d be surprised to know Myers was scored on more last season at evens (in less minutes...shortened season) than Hutton was the previous season. On a worse team. With worse support and with Erik Gudbranson as his partner most of the season.

Goals against raw and per 60 Hutton’s 18/19 season was better than Myers’ 19/20.

I think Myers is a better PP player and obviously the RHshot matters but I didn’t really see the lightening of the load. I felt he got softish minutes you can even tell from the minutes with edler they’re not getting buried in the dzone to start like Edler and Stecher were.

I totally get the idea that Stecher is overrated and sheltered by a quality babysitter but Myers was also sheltered by utilization.

I don’t think people who can’t see past their size biases understand just how good the results Stecher has put up are.

It’s going to be interesting to see how the pairs lineup because I don’t really see a stout defensive defender on the squad other than Edler and we saw In the playoffs how much he can be effected by a condensed schedule and no rest (poor turns/reaching/holding).

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Hutton’s gap control, positioning, defensive awareness, stick work were all terrible; Stecher is a much better defenceman. Myers is also overrated and is below average defensively.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I'm actually pretty pumped for next season. The west is the weakest it's ever been. Canucks get in and hopefully avoid Vegas I think we could do damage.

Why do you think the west is weak? Avalanche and Golden Knights are arguably the top 2 teams in the league right now. As well, Flames have improved. The Predators, Stars, Blues and Oilers could still cause some damage too.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

@pom just saying if you take out the name Tyler Myers and put in Ben Hutton and go back a year all the same things are true with regards to ice time and ranks on the pp and pk. It’s why I was trying to discuss utility (who they play against/used offensively or defensively) but you just want to use usage. The Ben Hutton comparisons shows the issue with just looking who plays the minutes.

Myers certainly brought more offensively (especially with Hughes) but I think you’d be surprised to know Myers was scored on more last season at evens (in less minutes...shortened season) than Hutton was the previous season. On a worse team. With worse support and with Erik Gudbranson as his partner most of the season.

Goals against raw and per 60 Hutton’s 18/19 season was better than Myers’ 19/20.

I think Myers is a better PP player and obviously the RHshot matters but I didn’t really see the lightening of the load. I felt he got softish minutes you can even tell from the minutes with edler they’re not getting buried in the dzone to start like Edler and Stecher were.

I totally get the idea that Stecher is overrated and sheltered by a quality babysitter but Myers was also sheltered by utilization.

I don’t think people who can’t see past their size biases understand just how good the results Stecher has put up are.

It’s going to be interesting to see how the pairs lineup because I don’t really see a stout defensive defender on the squad other than Edler and we saw In the playoffs how much he can be effected by a condensed schedule and no rest (poor turns/reaching/holding).

Tyler Myers was sheltered..?..Explain.

 

[4Twenty]

Tyler Myers was sheltered..?..Explain.

Didn’t you gripe at toxic for one line posts. I’ve explained it. Offensive usage. Quality of competition. Zone starts. Utility.

The same way Hughes was sheltered.

I’ll wait for you to wade in with anything that isn’t the same thing I could say about Ben Hutton in 18/19.

I won’t hold my breath though.

 

[BB06]

Why do you think the west is weak? Avalanche and Golden Knights are arguably the top 2 teams in the league right now. As well, Flames have improved. The Predators, Stars, Blues and Oilers could still cause some damage too.

Avs- Never solve their biggest issue which was goaltending. Don't trust either of that duo in a playoff series
Knights- Haven't fixed their main problem still have questionable finishing and even worse centre depth.
Oilers- Replaced Number 1Dmen in terms of ice time and responsibilities (Kelfbomb) with Barrie. Had a historic great Powerplay which is set to regress and relied heavily on PK which was the best in the league unlikely to repeat. Still have the same shit goaltending and Defence
Blues-Replaced AP wit Krug. Might have one of the worst D-cores in the west outside of Parayko
Stars- Half the team suffered major injuries including sequin who could be out for months. Long playoff run took a tool
Flames- Improved greatly and are a regular season juggernaut but Gaudreau and Monahan are some of the worst 5on5 playoff performers in the league

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Didn’t you gripe at toxic for one line posts. I’ve explained it. Offensive usage. Quality of competition. Zone starts. Utility.

The same way Hughes was sheltered.

I’ll wait for you to wade in with anything that isn’t the same thing I could say about Ben Hutton in 18/19.

I won’t hold my breath though.

"He’s played the second-most minutes on the team thus far in 2019/20, trailing Hughes and just ahead of Miller, and it’s not as if Myers has been receiving sheltered minutes or preferential starts. His teammates seem to be doing just as well or better with him out there than without him, no matter who they happen to be lining up against.
The explanation could be as simple as the fact that Myers was once the third-best right-handed defenseman on the Jets, and now he’s the best on the Canucks. His underlying metrics haven’t changed much, but his overall importance has. Perhaps he was a replaceable player in Winnipeg because the role he played was so replaceable, and not because Myers was.
Though it’s a heavily criticized statistic, Micah Blake McCurdy’s measure of WOWY – or “With or Without You” – for the Canucks this season says that both Hughes and Alex Edler have played their best hockey alongside Myers."
Tyler Myers Vs Advanced Stats