Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[BondraTime]

How is this guy the top UFA that teams are looking at for a starter? This is bonkers. 108 games played total. 28 games played max in a season. What is going on?

It's not so much that he's a great option for teams looking for a goalie as a UFA, it's that there are a very limited amount, and really none of which would be guys you'd look for as a starter

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	GP	G	A	P	P/GP	+/-	Sh	Sh%	TOI	W	L	SO	GAA	Sv%	CLAUSE	EXPIRY	CAP HIT	SALARY
1. Cam Talbot	LAK	36	G	Left	54	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	27	20	3	2.50	.913	NTC	UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
2. Alex Nedeljkovic	PIT	28	G	Left	38	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	18	7	1	2.97	.902		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
3. Scott Wedgewood	DAL	31	G	Left	32	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	16	7	0	2.85	.899		UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
4. Casey DeSmith	VAN	32	G	Left	29	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	9	1	2.89	.895		UFA	$1,800,000	$1,900,000
5. Anthony Stolarz	FLA	30	G	Left	27	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	16	7	2	2.03	.925		UFA	$1,100,000	$1,100,000
6. James Reimer	DET	36	G	Left	25	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	8	2	3.11	.904	M-NTC	UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
7. Antti Raanta	CAR	35	G	Left	24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	7	1	2.99	.872		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
8. David Rittich	LAK	31	G	Left	24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	13	6	3	2.16	.921		UFA	$875,000	$875,000
9. Kevin Lankinen	NSH	29	G	Left	24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	6	1	2.82	.908		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
10. Laurent Brossoit	WPG	31	G	Left	23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	15	5	3	2.00	.927		UFA	$1,750,000	$1,750,000
11. Calvin Pickard	EDM	32	G	Left	23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	7	1	2.45	.909		UFA	$762,500	$775,000
12. Martin Jones	TOR	34	G	Left	22	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	8	2	2.87	.902		UFA	$875,000	$875,000
13. Eric Comrie	BUF	28	G	Left	10	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	7	0	3.70	.874		UFA	$1,800,000	$1,800,000
14. Pheonix Copley	LAK	32	G	Left	8	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	4	1	1	3.17	.870		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
15. Devin Cooley	SJS	27	G	Left	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	3	0	4.98	.870		UFA	$775,000	$775,000

 

[GCK]

He's probably the best option we have, and it's unlikely we get him given he's the top UFA goalie on the market and there are numerous teams looking for starters.

The dreamers will throw out names like Ullmark and Saros, ignoring they have NTCs and are UFAs in a year and won't want to spend the rest of their career in Ottawa, but that's not happening.

I threw out the idea of trading Pinto for Swayman last summer prior to signing Korpisalo and people crapped on it. Same goes for trading for Thompson from Vegas. Now neither are options.

We'll probably have to go with the Detroit approach this year. Signed a consistent albeit mediocre backup as insurance in case Korpisalo sucks again, and then maybe add a 3rd goalie or keep Forsberg as extra insurance. Not ideal but what can you do.

I'm curious why you think Ullmark would not want to play the rest of his career in Ottawa. Is there a basis for this statement.

 

[Loach]

It's not so much that he's a great option for teams looking for a goalie as a UFA, it's that there are a very limited amount, and really none of which would be guys you'd look for as a starter

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	GP	G	A	P	P/GP	+/-	Sh	Sh%	TOI	W	L	SO	GAA	Sv%	CLAUSE	EXPIRY	CAP HIT	SALARY
1. Cam Talbot	LAK	36	G	Left	54	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	27	20	3	2.50	.913	NTC	UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
2. Alex Nedeljkovic	PIT	28	G	Left	38	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	18	7	1	2.97	.902		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
3. Scott Wedgewood	DAL	31	G	Left	32	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	16	7	0	2.85	.899		UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
4. Casey DeSmith	VAN	32	G	Left	29	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	9	1	2.89	.895		UFA	$1,800,000	$1,900,000
5. Anthony Stolarz	FLA	30	G	Left	27	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	16	7	2	2.03	.925		UFA	$1,100,000	$1,100,000
6. James Reimer	DET	36	G	Left	25	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	8	2	3.11	.904	M-NTC	UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
7. Antti Raanta	CAR	35	G	Left	24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	7	1	2.99	.872		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
8. David Rittich	LAK	31	G	Left	24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	13	6	3	2.16	.921		UFA	$875,000	$875,000
9. Kevin Lankinen	NSH	29	G	Left	24	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	6	1	2.82	.908		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
10. Laurent Brossoit	WPG	31	G	Left	23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	15	5	3	2.00	.927		UFA	$1,750,000	$1,750,000
11. Calvin Pickard	EDM	32	G	Left	23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	7	1	2.45	.909		UFA	$762,500	$775,000
12. Martin Jones	TOR	34	G	Left	22	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	8	2	2.87	.902		UFA	$875,000	$875,000
13. Eric Comrie	BUF	28	G	Left	10	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	7	0	3.70	.874		UFA	$1,800,000	$1,800,000
14. Pheonix Copley	LAK	32	G	Left	8	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	4	1	1	3.17	.870		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
15. Devin Cooley	SJS	27	G	Left	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	3	0	4.98	.870		UFA	$775,000	$775,000

Why are teams not grooming young guys in a backup roll? Is it because teams are splitting playing time?

 

[BondraTime]

Why are teams not grooming young guys in a backup roll? Is it because teams are splitting playing time?

I have no clue, I know very little about goaltending

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Even if they get a 1 year veteran goalie as a rental, that's not the end of the world.

It's all about winning next season to prove this core can do it, and to keep guys from asking out. We already know per Friedman that the current situation has tested some of the relationships here.

Ullmark signed long term is a pipe dream unless we give him a stupid context that he cannot turn down. If it's Chychrun for Ullmark as some people have speculated, that's fine. It's a player who is walking for a player who will walk.

The other factor is that if we add Ullmark and we start winning, he may sign later in the season. It's not uncommon for players to extend when teams once they are comfortable. Anderson turned down Ottawa as a UFA and later chose to stay there after they acquired him and he had a chance to play for the team..

 

[Hale The Villain]

I'm curious why you think Ullmark would not want to play the rest of his career in Ottawa. Is there a basis for this statement.

Besides Ottawa being one of the least desirable destinations in the league?

 

[OttawaSenators11]

I don’t see any scenario where we get Ullmark with Korpisalo on the roster just too much $$ long-term on the books for both of em 10-11M.

Honestly, I have no idea what we are going to do to improve the goaltending - Staios surely can’t comeback with Korpislao as the starter next year after missing the playoffs for 7 straight seasons.

 

[GCK]

Besides Ottawa being one of the least desirable destinations in the league?

Is it though. The organization has been a tire fire for years under Melnyk and Dorion. That is now over thankfully. I am pretty sure if we gave him sufficient term and a NTC he would think about it. Right now with a 6 and 4 year old, he might consider stability over taxes.

 

[aragorn]

I don’t see any scenario where we get Ullmark with Korpisalo on the roster just too much $$ long-term on the books for both of em 10-11M.

Honestly, I have no idea what we are going to do to improve the goaltending - Staios surely can’t comeback with Korpislao as the starter next year after missing the playoffs for 7 straight seasons.

Agreed, they would have to find a separate deal where they move out Korpisalo & likely not get much in return or pay more to move him. The ideal situation would be to acquire Ullmark & have Forsberg be the backup for one yr given his contract ends at the end of next season. That gives Sogaard & Merilainen another yr to mature & hone their skills to see if they can be an NHL backup / starter some day.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Agreed, they would have to find a separate deal where they move out Korpisalo & likely not get much in return or pay more to move him. The ideal situation would be to acquire Ullmark & have Forsberg be the backup for one yr given his contract ends at the end of next season. That gives Sogaard & Merilainen another yr to mature & hone their skills to see if they can be an NHL backup / starter some day.

Yeah maybe acquire Ullmark and can pay Utah ( lots of space) to take Korpisalo, depending on the cost, I’d be down with that scenario!

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Even if they get a 1 year veteran goalie as a rental, that's not the end of the world.

It's all about winning next season to prove this core can do it, and to keep guys from asking out. We already know per Friedman that the current situation has tested some of the relationships here.

Ullmark signed long term is a pipe dream unless we give him a stupid context that he cannot turn down. If it's Chychrun for Ullmark as some people have speculated, that's fine. It's a player who is walking for a player who will walk.

The other factor is that if we add Ullmark and we start winning, he may sign later in the season. It's not uncommon for players to extend when teams once they are comfortable. Anderson turned down Ottawa as a UFA and later chose to stay there after they acquired him and he had a chance to play for the team..

Our biggest mistake was not running it back with Talbot.

 

[Comely]

Our biggest mistake was not running it back with Talbot.

Apparently he didnt want to resign here

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Apparently he didnt want to resign here

I remember hearing that it was mutual, I know he definitely soured a bit, but he signed for like $1m... I suspect we could have retained him if we really made a push.

In retrospect, we would have been better served giving Talbot 1yr 5m than bringing in Korpisalo

 

[dumbdick]

Besides Ottawa being one of the least desirable destinations in the league?

That's probably why.

I assume it's also why Pinto and Sandy walked from NCAA to free agency. Why zub turned us down. Why Giroux is still in Philly. Why Brady demanded a trade. Why Tarasenko and Dadonov refused to come here.

When will Ottawa players listen to the fans and realize just how awful and hopeless this town really is?

 

[Hale The Villain]

That's probably why.

I assume it's also why Pinto and Sandy walked from NCAA to free agency. Why zub turned us down. Why Giroux is still in Philly. Why Brady demanded a trade. Why Tarasenko and Dadonov refused to come here.

When will Ottawa players listen to the fans and realize just how awful and hopeless this town really is?

Pinto and Sanderson would have had to spend 4 years in college and give up millions in earnings to leave.

Brady and all the other young players we re-signed are RFAs and aren't able to jump ship or choose their destination, hence they re-signed.

Giroux is from Ottawa, which obviously makes him a special case.

We've been able to sign Russians for some reason. On top of the names you listed we signed Gonchar and Kovalev when they were reasonably attractive UFAs.

Great point about the Ruskies. Maybe we'll be able to sign Samsonov out of Toronto if we want another goalie struggling to keep his save percentage above .890.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend this team is an attractive destination for UFAs and players with NTC that can pick their destinations, be my guest.

 

[dumbdick]

Pinto and Sanderson would have had to spend 4 years in college and give up millions in earnings to leave.

Brady and all the other young players we re-signed are RFAs and aren't able to jump ship or choose their destination, hence they re-signed.

Giroux is from Ottawa, which obviously makes him a special case.

We've been able to sign Russians for some reason. On top of the names you listed we signed Gonchar and Kovalev when they were reasonably attractive UFAs.

Great point about the Ruskies. Maybe we'll be able to sign Samsonov out of Toronto if we want another goalie struggling to keep his save percentage above .890.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend this team is an attractive destination for UFAs and players with NTC that can pick their destinations, be my guest.

You're right. Things are terrible here.

 

[Silky Johnson]

You have to ignore the acquisition cost of
Chychrun, it was a different regime.

Exactly, sunk cost fallacy.

Not that I specifically endorse the trade.

 

[Silky Johnson]

That's a real "unstoppable force meets immovable object" scenario right there

Or the "unstoppable tank vs the unwinnable trade(r)"

They both are strong in channeling their internal Milbury.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You're right. Things are terrible here.

We haven't make the playoffs in 7 years and traded away a ton of young assets in the attempt to make it.

Things aren't great.

 

[dumbdick]

We haven't make the playoffs in 7 years and traded away a ton of young assets in the attempt to make it.

Things aren't great.

In a 32 team league with limited good UFAs available in a given year (and many overpriced), what would you deem as an average number of top UFAs for a team to attract?

Like 10 a season, or more? Obviously you can exclude Russians, as you don't seem to think they count.

 

[Hale The Villain]

In a 32 team league with limited good UFAs available in a given year (and many overpriced), what would you deem as an average number of top UFAs for a team to attract?

Like 10 a season, or more? Obviously you can exclude Russians, as you don't seem to think they count.

I'm not going to play whatever silly little game this is.

We've signed 3 "top" UFAs in the last 15 years - Gonchar, Kovalev and Dadonov (can be debated for the latter two)

No I'm not counting Giroux, who is from Ottawa and wanted to come home, or Tarasenko, who signed a 1 year mercenary contract because of a stagnant salary cap, turning down a larger long-term offer to do so.

Face it, this team struggles to attract talent when they have alternatives elsewhere. Players generally prefer to play in U.S markets, on established contenders and in lower/no income tax states. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt at this stage.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I'm not going to play whatever silly little game this is.

We've signed 3 "top" UFAs in the last 15 years - Gonchar, Kovalev and Dadonov (can be debated for the latter two)

No I'm not counting Giroux, who is from Ottawa and wanted to come home, or Tarasenko, who signed a 1 year mercenary contract because of a stagnant salary cap, turning down a larger long-term offer to do so.

Face it, this team struggles to attract talent when they have alternatives elsewhere. Players generally prefer to play in U.S markets, on established contenders and in lower/no income tax states. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt at this stage.

What you are saying in this post is spot on but I do find that people take that probability (on average, we are a below average or even bottom 5 destination) and overstate it or even apply it as a cold, hard rule.

In the case of Ullmark, if he knows he's going to be moved either way, his top choice may well be the team that offers him security. Changing teams as an impeding UFA goalie, especially one leaving Boston, carries a lot of risk. Mitigating that risk would be extremely attractive to many people.

I don't think Boston will trade Ullmark to us anyways but the point I'm making is a general one

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not going to play whatever silly little game this is.

We've signed 3 "top" UFAs in the last 15 years - Gonchar, Kovalev and Dadonov (can be debated for the latter two)

No I'm not counting Giroux, who is from Ottawa and wanted to come home, or Tarasenko, who signed a 1 year mercenary contract because of a stagnant salary cap, turning down a larger long-term offer to do so.

Face it, this team struggles to attract talent when they have alternatives elsewhere. Players generally prefer to play in U.S markets, on established contenders and in lower/no income tax states. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt at this stage.

There's more to us not signing top UFA in the last 15 yrs than just whether we are a desirable location or not.

1. We need to have the cap space/ budget to make a pitch
2. We have to have a roster spot for a top UFA at the same position at the time they come to market
3. We have to believe that UFA is a good fit for our team and actually make a pitch.

#1 in particular was not often true, and as a result #3 rarely happened.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Didn't Ullmark reject a trade to Los Angeles?

Maybe he would accept a trade to Ottawa, missing the cold winters of Sweden

 

[Good in Osgoode]

Didn't Ullmark reject a trade to Los Angeles?

Maybe he would accept a trade to Ottawa, missing the cold winters of Sweden

I think that there is actually an element of truth to this.

I do think that the Europeans/Russians probably find Canada to be more like home than the US and might be more comfortable playing in a Canadian city.

This is all generalizations of course, but I think that it is the US players that would prefer to play in the US and then you have a number of Canadian born players that might tend to prefer to be out of the 'fishbowl' of playing in a Canadian market as well.