Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Micklebot]

Interesting. I was just looking at this and was curious. Is HockeyDB user updated only or how does it work?

Cory Clouston Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics and Records of Cory Clouston, a hockey player and coach who was active from 1988 to 1993.

www.hockeydb.com

Idk, but elite prospects tends to be better for staff profiles

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Idk, but elite prospects tends to be better for staff profiles

It certainly is in this case! Thanks for the tidbit.

 

[StoicSensFan]

I meant Cody Ceci but I see how that could be misinterpreted

 

[Duncstar]

I meant Cody Ceci but I see how that could be misinterpreted

Some of us knew what you meant

 

[SensHulk]

Cory Clouston? He went to coach in Germany then came back as an assistant in kamloops

Unpopular opinion but Clouston did pretty well for the short period of time he was here. He came in 2009 and ended the season pretty well (19-11 run or something) shook up the playing style and culture (so much so that Heatley wanted out, and we all know how that turned out). Then an epic 11-game win streak in 2010 and pushing the penguins to the limit with a game 6 OT loss (should have gone 7 for sure). Then the wheels fell of in 2011…

He was probably a tough personality but at least he made the playoffs and did some ballsy stuff while he was around.

 

[Larionov]

Is this the thread where we can lust after other teams' soon to be UFAs? If so, I'd love to see Dakota Joshua in a Sens jersey if the price is right...

 

[Duncstar]

Is this the thread where we can lust after other teams' soon to be UFAs? If so, I'd love to see Dakota Joshua in a Sens jersey if the price is right...

Yeah I was watching him last night for sure. Apparently he's willing to take a discount to stay so cry yourself asleep like a good Sens fan.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Dakota Joshua is going to get a massive contract if this keeps up. He will be this year's "David Clarkson", not because he is bad or anything, but at his peak he is the prototypical middle six forward that every single team who knows what it takes to win wants.

I think the problem with the discourse around him is that everybody is assuming there is a remote possibility that they will get him for 3rd line money. The cap is going up so there will be room for GMs to overpay. Someone will go out and give him 5M+ with term.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Assuming we are not able to acquire a top 4 RD via UFA, we should go hard after Zach Whitecloud

Rock solid shutdown RD that is signed to a fantastic contract (2.75M x 4YRs). He's only 27 and is a late bloomer so he's not past his prime.

Played with Chabot at the World Championships last year and they looked good together.

While Vegas could trade one of their D this summer to open up some cap space, recoup some assets and make room for Korczak, I am skeptical Whitecloud will be the guy given his contract status. We'd probably have to make it worth Vegas' while, which I'd be fully prepared to do given the fit is damn near perfect.

Wonder if a deal could be worked out based around Greig for Whitecloud.

 

[BondraTime]

Assuming we are not able to acquire a top 4 RD via UFA, we should go hard after Zach Whitecloud

Rock solid shutdown RD that is signed to a fantastic contract (2.75M x 4YRs). He's only 27 and is a late bloomer so he's not past his prime.

Played with Chabot at the World Championships last year and they looked good together.

While Vegas could trade one of their D this summer to open up some cap space, recoup some assets and make room for Korczak, I am skeptical Whitecloud will be the guy given his contract status. We'd probably have to make it worth Vegas' while, which I'd be fully prepared to do given the fit is damn near perfect.

Wonder if a deal could be worked out based around Greig for Whitecloud.

That’s a lot more than I’d be willing to give, I wouldn’t be open to give more than a 2nd/3rd for him

 

[sennysensen]

We've talked about Saros, Ullmark, and Markstrom a lot. What about Logan Thompson? Will Vegas want to trade him instead of losing him as a UFA in 1 year? He will probably cost more than the 1st 3 goalies as he only makes $766,000, but has more untapped upside than them being younger. None of the 4 will cost a ton, as they are all UFA in 1 year except 2 for Markstrom, but he gets paid the most. Whatever we paid for Matt Murray is probably what we'll have to pay for 1 of these guys. We would be smart to send Forsberg the other way and retain 1/2 of his salary.

For a RHD, someone on Reddit mentioned Jalen Chatfield from Carolina. He is younger and upcoming, less proven, so won't cost as much as Roy, DeMelo, Walker, etc.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Vegas probably trades Hill and then brings in a veteran #2 goalie.

Thompson has been the better of the two. His cap hit next year is also lower.

I can't imagine Thompson would not sign a 5M or so extension with Vegas.

 

[Hale The Villain]

That’s a lot more than I’d be willing to give, I wouldn’t be open to give more than a 2nd/3rd for him

Lots of teams desperate for a defensive RD, and Whitecloud's contract is very attractive compared to the alternatives, which is overpaying on a big UFA contract for Pesce, Roy, etc...

If we can get him for less, fantastic, but I'd assume BOS 1st or the 39th OVR+ would be the bare minimum cost given his track record, age, contract status and age.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Lots of teams desperate for a defensive RD, and Whitecloud's contract is very attractive compared to the alternatives, which is overpaying on a big UFA contract for Pesce, Roy, etc...

If we can get him for less, fantastic, but I'd assume BOS 1st or the 39th OVR+ would be the bare minimum cost given his track record, age, contract status and age.

Big difference between those assets and Grieg.

Vegas probably trades Hill and then brings in a veteran #2 goalie.

Thompson has been the better of the two. His cap hit next year is also lower.

I can't imagine Thompson would not sign a 5M or so extension with Vegas.

Agreed, was coming in here to say this.

Hill is a bit of a risk though. This is the first time he's played over 27 games and he was really inconsistent. Seems like it would either be him or Korpisalo, not both.

 

[BondraTime]

Lots of teams desperate for a defensive RD, and Whitecloud's contract is very attractive compared to the alternatives, which is overpaying on a big UFA contract for Pesce, Roy, etc...

If we can get him for less, fantastic, but I'd assume BOS 1st or the 39th OVR+ would be the bare minimum cost given his track record, age, contract status and age.

I don’t think he’s really a defensive D though.

He’s a bottom pairing, 17ish minute a night guy that plays no PP, and minimal PK time.

He’s not really what they should be looking for, unless it’s to play the 16-17ish a night role he’s played his career thus far, and I personally wouldn’t be open to trading anything valuable for that kind of player.

I’d be very open to have him on the bottom pairing, I wouldn’t be open to trading anything of value to fill that spot.

I think he’s the odd man out next year, he’s their #6 right now without taking Hague or Korczak into account. If they want Korczak to be in the lineup, Whitecloud will be the guy on the outside with McNabb, Hanfin and Hague on the left, 2 of those guys with sub 3 million contracts, and Pie and Theodore locked on the right.

He was a healthy scratch multiple times this season, I don’t think he’d be too tough to get, or cost too much. He’s the odd man out in the end I’d imagine.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I don’t think he’s really a defensive D though.

He’s a bottom pairing, 17ish minute a night guy that plays no PP, and minimal PK time.

He’s not really what they should be looking for, unless it’s to play the 16-17ish a night role he’s played his career thus far, and I personally wouldn’t be open to trading anything valuable for that kind of player.

I’d be very open to have him on the bottom pairing, I wouldn’t be open to trading anything of value to fill that spot.

I think he’s the odd man out next year, he’s their #6 right now without taking Hague or Korczak into account. If they want Korczak to be in the lineup, Whitecloud will be the guy on the outside with McNabb, Hanfin and Hague on the left, 2 of those guys with sub 3 million contracts, and Pie and Theodore locked on the right.

He was a healthy scratch multiple times this season, I don’t think he’d be too tough to get, or cost too much. He’s the odd man out in the end I’d imagine.

I think the Peeke trade is a reasonable barometer. Whitecloud would be worth more but probably not a ton more.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I don’t think he’s really a defensive D though.

He’s a bottom pairing, 17ish minute a night guy that plays no PP, and minimal PK time.

He’s not really what they should be looking for, unless it’s to play the 16-17ish a night role he’s played his career thus far, and I personally wouldn’t be open to trading anything valuable for that kind of player.

I’d be very open to have him on the bottom pairing, I wouldn’t be open to trading anything of value to fill that spot.

I think he’s the odd man out next year, he’s their #6 right now without taking Hague or Korczak into account. If they want Korczak to be in the lineup, Whitecloud will be the guy on the outside with McNabb, Hanfin and Hague on the left, 2 of those guys with sub 3 million contracts, and Pie and Theodore locked on the right.

He was a healthy scratch multiple times this season, I don’t think he’d be too tough to get, or cost too much. He’s the odd man out in the end I’d imagine.

He's very solid defensively. I watch Vegas quite a bit and although he hasn't been as good as the previous couple years he's definitely a defenseman that can be counted on defensively.

It should go without saying but the reason he has played bottom pairing minutes for Vegas is because he plays behind Pietrangelo and Theodore (prefers the right side). On a lot of teams he'd be playing bigger minutes on a team's 2nd pair in a Zub-type role beside an offensive defenseman. Vegas has the best defensive depth in the league and it's the main reason they won a cup last year despite having few star offensive players.

Korczak isn't playing over Whitecloud for a reason. He could be doing that now if Cassidy thought he was the better defenseman. The reason the Knights might trade Whitecloud to fit Korczak in is because it would open up a couple million in cap space and it would allow them to recoup some futures that they have traded away for guys like Hertl, Hanifin and Mantha. There's zero chance he were to be the guy outside looking in next season, pretty ridiculous asssertion there.

 

[BondraTime]

He's very solid defensively. I watch Vegas quite a bit and although he hasn't been as good as the previous couple years he's definitely a defenseman that can be counted on defensively.

It should go without saying but the reason he has played bottom pairing minutes for Vegas is because he plays behind Pietrangelo and Theodore (prefers the right side). On a lot of teams he'd be playing bigger minutes on a team's 2nd pair in a Zub-type role beside an offensive defenseman. Vegas has the best defensive depth in the league and it's the main reason they won a cup last year despite having few star offensive players.

Korczak isn't playing over Whitecloud for a reason. He could be doing that now if Cassidy thought he was the better defenseman. The reason the Knights might trade Whitecloud to fit Korczak in is because it would open up a couple million in cap space and it would allow them to recoup some futures that they have traded away for guys like Hertl, Hanifin and Mantha. There's zero chance he were to be the guy outside looking in next season, pretty ridiculous asssertion there.

Don’t think it’s ridiculous at all.

He’s their clear number 6, he was healthy scratched over 5 times this season for Korczak, they have their replacement 900k player in Korczak if they choose, especially with his waiver eligibility over. They aren’t even using him on the PK with one of their main PKers Hague injured; he’s extremely, extremely expendable for them.

If we trade for him and plan to play him in a Zub role, I think we’re in tons trouble.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Don’t think it’s ridiculous at all.

He’s their clear number 6, he was healthy scratched ovwr 5 times this season, they have their replacement 900k player in Korczak if they choose. They aren’t even using him on the PK with one of their main PKers Hague injured.

I’d we trade for him and plan to ply him in a Zub role, we’re in trouble.

Vegas wanted to get Miromanov and Korczak some playing time. They were in the fortunate position to have several NHL quality RD playing in the AHL for most of the year and wanted to get them in some games. I wouldn't read too much into the "healthy" scratches considering he's been banged up a fair bit this year.

Whitecloud had almost identical shorthanded time on ice per game as Hague during the regular season. They were the secondary options behind Pietrangelo and McNabb, and then also Hanifin after he was acquired.

Again, Vegas has about 5-6 defenseman who would be top 4 on a lot of teams. It's why they are so damn good, especially come playoff time, where Whitecloud has been fantastic by the way.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think the Peeke trade is a reasonable barometer. Whitecloud would be worth more but probably not a ton more.

Peeke was struggling in Columbus for awhile. He was -41 last year and was barely playing before being traded to Boston.

He's apparently looked pretty good for them since the trade, but he was more of a reclamation project. Even he returned a 3rd (albeit in 2027) because teams are desperate for RD.

 

[BondraTime]

Vegas wanted to get Miromanov and Korczak some playing time. They were in the fortunate position to have several NHL quality RD playing in the AHL for most of the year and wanted to get them in some games. I wouldn't read too much into the "healthy" scratches considering he's been banged up a fair bit this year.

Whitecloud had almost identical shorthanded time on ice per game as Hague during the regular season. They were the secondary options behind Pietrangelo and McNabb, and then also Hanifin after he was acquired.

Again, Vegas has about 5-6 defenseman who would be top 4 on a lot of teams. It's why they are so damn good, especially come playoff time, where Whitecloud has been fantastic by the way.

Yes I’ve been watching Vegas.

If we can get him to play 15 minutes a night like he is this playoffs, perfect, otherwise we’re in for a world of hurt.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Peeke was struggling in Columbus for awhile. He was -41 last year and was barely playing before being traded to Boston.

He's apparently looked pretty good for them since the trade, but he was more of a reclamation project. Even he returned a 3rd (albeit in 2027) because teams are desperate for RD.

Yeah they are not exactly analogous, but I'd also argue that Peeke's skillset, when firing on all cylinders, is more appealing for a playoff run depth role than Whitecloud's.

I'm not saying I agree with that argument, but Peeke's a far more physical & punishing player. Teams pay a premium for that, too.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Yes I’ve been watching Vegas.

If we can get him to play 15 minutes a night like he is this playoffs, perfect, otherwise we’re in for a world of hurt.

But what's the alternative?

I keep seeing people throwing names like Pesce, Roy and Tanev out there, even though there's little to no chance they are signing here given the alternative destinations.

The way I look at it we're probably going to have to overpay in UFA for a RD that is best suited for a 3rd pairing role, or trade assets for one. Pretty confident no team is trading a proven top 4 RD this summer.

Whitecloud appears to me as a guy who could be successful in an expanded role on this team's 2nd pairing, despite playing 3rd pairing minutes for the Knights during his career. Would prefer trading for him over signing someone like Dumba, Myers, Miller, etc... who I think are the guys who would actually be willing to sign here.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

But what's the alternative?

I keep seeing people throwing names like Pesce, Roy and Tanev out there, even though there's little to no chance they are signing here given the alternative destinations.

The way I look at it we're probably going to have to overpay in UFA for a RD that is best suited for a 3rd pairing role, or trade assets for one. Pretty confident no team is trading a proven top 4 RD this summer.

Whitecloud appears to me as a guy who could be successful in an expanded role on this team's 2nd pairing, despite playing 3rd pairing minutes for the Knights during his career. Would prefer trading for him over signing someone like Dumba, Myers, Miller, etc... who I think are the guys who would actually be willing to sign here.

Stop trying to take shortcuts in building the team & spending high-end assets on players that dont address medium/long-term needs

Ironically, a 3rd & Lassi Thomson or 4th + JBD might have landed us Peeke and our 1/2 & 3 RD spots would be well spoken for. I'd prefer Whitecloud but Greig, 1st, etc are a bridge too far.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Stop trying to take shortcuts in building the team & spending high-end assets on players that dont address medium/long-term needs

Ironically, a 3rd & Lassi Thomson or 4th + JBD might have landed us Peeke and our 1/2 & 3 RD spots would be well spoken for. I'd prefer Whitecloud but Greig, 1st, etc are a bridge too far.

I think had we traded for Peeke it would have been with the 3rd RD spot in mind considering his struggles the past couple years, so I'd hardly consider our RD spots spoken for in such a case.

Frankly in addition to a 2nd pairing RD we should also be looking at adding an extra RD to compete with JBD on the 3rd pairing. Hoping management doesn't think Hamonic is that guy.