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Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

The Devilish Buffoon

The Devilish Buffoon

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Dec 24, 2018
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Hale The Villain said:
What makes you think his value would be higher in the summer?

Based on what the other D traded at the deadline returned, I would have expected at least a 2nd + another pick or a prospect for Chychrun if he were traded as a rental.

But he's not a rental, which means a team trading for him at the deadline could have used him for the rest of the seasons + playoffs and then kept him for an extra year, or they could then trade him in the summer for assets, which is what we're likely going to do. Thus his value to acquiring teams would have been higher and they would have been willing to pay more knowing they could deal him in the summer to re-coup assets. Even moreso had we bit the bullet and retained on him to maximize his value (which is what we should have done IMO).

Therefore Chychrun's value at the deadline was his rental value + his summer value. We passed up his rental value (eg. 2nd+pick/prospect) and are now just going to get his value to a team in the summer, whether as a 1 year rental or perhaps in a deal with an extension worked out.

Logically there's no reason to think we'll get the more value in the summer than we would have gotten at the deadline, even if it was a buyer's market.
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There are way too many assumptions in this post and your logic is not as tight as your asserting. We have seen premiums played for players because they can be immediately extended, cap space is far different, and teams will have a clearer evaluation of their groups after a playoff run. And that is just a very superficial overview of potential factors, there is way more at play.
redbrick98 said:
Chychrun for Sam Bennett ?

Straight up
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Florida spits in our face
 

GCK

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Hale The Villain said:
Which is why we should have retained 50% to maximize his value and widen his trade market.

I know you don't like the idea of carrying 2.3M in retained money into next season, but from the sounds of it not trading Chychrun at all may have cost us almost a million in performance bonus cap penalty, so it should have been a no brainer.
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This topic started with us having a tight cap with the 850K overage, a 2.3M dead money hit would really stifle change. I’m hoping Staios laid the groundwork for a Chychrun trade at the deadline and they can get a decent return. A top 10 protected 2025 1st + a 2nd would be awesome.
 

Hale The Villain

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The Devilish Buffoon said:
There are way too many assumptions in this post and your logic is not as tight as your asserting. We have seen premiums played for players because they can be immediately extended, cap space is far different, and teams will have a clearer evaluation of their groups after a playoff run. And that is just a very superficial overview of potential factors, there is way more at play.
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They are extremely simple assumptions that any GM in this league should be factoring in when evaluating the value of players that are upcoming UFAs versus players with additional term.

I've long made the point that being signed for an extra year on a steal of a contract is what made Blake Coleman, Barclay Goodrow and Brandon Hagel all return a 1st round pick, and a lot more in the case of Coleman and Hagel.

Tampa was willing to pay more for them than a pure rental because they factored in their value to the team on the extra year of the contract, or their value if they were to trade them in the summer to recoup some assets and replenish some of the futures they gave up.

Ultimately we lost the rental value of Chychrun by renting him ourselves for the rest of the 23/24 season. Not only did it cost us an asset or two, but it may have hurt our draft pick and may cost us more in a performance bonus by keeping his money on the books for the rest of the year.
 
Golden_Jet

Golden_Jet

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Hale The Villain said:
They are extremely simple assumptions that any GM in this league should be factoring in when evaluating the value of players that are upcoming UFAs versus players with additional term.

I've long made the point that being signed for an extra year on a steal of a contract is what made Blake Coleman, Barclay Goodrow and Brandon Hagel all return a 1st round pick, and a lot more in the case of Coleman and Hagel.

Tampa was willing to pay more for them than a pure rental because they factored in their value to the team on the extra year of the contract, or their value if they were to trade them in the summer to recoup some assets and replenish some of the futures they gave up.

Ultimately we lost the rental value of Chychrun by renting him ourselves for the rest of the 23/24 season. Not only did it cost us an asset or two, but it may have hurt our draft pick and may cost us more in a performance bonus by keeping his money on the books for the rest of the year.
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If worried about Sandy’s bonus, don’t retain on Tank, easy peasy.
 

LuckyPierre

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This team needs a proper good start next year more than anything.

In spite of some of his defensive shortcomings, Chychrun seemed to take off season preparation seriously and came to play last October.

15 games in, Chychrun had a stat line of 5-7-12, +2, with 6 PPP. Was point per game through 11, and had a 6 game point streak with points in 9 of 15 games. The team had a record of 8-7. The Sweden trip seemed to derail their play from then onwards. Stutzle had started with 20 points and was a plus player in that timeframe, and his production tapered. Could have been around then when he got banged up, and our centre depth was shot, torpedoing the team's chances.

Meanwhile, Chabot only played the first 7 games of the year before getting hurt, racking up just 3 assists, none on the PP, and went -1. Only had points in 2 of those first 7 games. Not good.

2022-2023, Chabot started that same sample size with 3-4-7, -3, with 4 PPP. Pointless in 9 of those first 15.

2021-2022, Chabot started 0-6-6, +3, 3 PPP, pointless in 11 of the first 15.

2020-2021, he started 3-4-7, -6, 2 PPP, and pointless in 9 of the first 15.

2019-2020, he began 1-8-9, -3, 2 PPP, pointless in 7 of the first 15.

All this to say, Chabot hasn't had a convincing start to the season in the past several years. He's had one quality start to a season in his entire career, when he began hot in 2018-2019 with 4-16-20, +1, 6 PPP, pointless in just 2 of first 15.

That dynamic version of him was toasted with several seasons of heavy usage. I suspect we can all agree that in spite of finally achieving some built in redundancy and support for Chabot on this roster this year, he was still unable to return to the form we saw out of him early in his career, and it's safe to assume he simply is what he is now.

With $10m payout this upcoming year, and a pattern of middling starts for a team that desperately needs leadership and defensive progress, I would move on from Chabot at whatever the (reasonable) cost. It's just too much of a gamble, and we need players who launch out of the gate.

I also could see us moving on from Chychrun simultaneously, but I do appreciate that he has shown the ability to contribute to a hot start.
 
frightenedinmatenum2

frightenedinmatenum2

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Tarasenko had a NMC. It is possible that he was only willing to waive for select destinations that needed us to retain. If that was the case, then we cleared cap space by moving him. The alternative being, we keep the entire 5M cap hit on the books.

Clearing 2.5M (minus 775k+ replacement roster body) is better than keeping 5M.

If we find out there was a destination that would have taken him for a lesser return without cap considerations, then the argument becomes was the 3rd+4th worth losing cap next year?
 
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Loach

Loach

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frightenedinmatenum2 said:
There was discussion about the team losing value on Stone by not trading him in the summer. (Burrowsaurus)

I said that I recalled Keith Tkachuk saying in an interview something to the affect that Brady wasn't going to sign on a team with no players in relation to the Stone trade. I added that I thought that and revenue via season tickets were reasons why they opted not to trade Stone and Duchene when their value would have been higher. I speculated the above might be why they made a lot of strange moves, like adding Boedker.

Nobody else recalled that interview and questioned the legitimacy of my memory. Seeing that nobody else remembered the interview, and not wanting to say something false, I stated that I would try to dig through a few Tkachuk interviews and try to find the quote. People here tend to follow the team very closely, so if nobody else remembers it (whether it was a Bardown or TSN 1200 interview), it is possible that I am misremembering.
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You drop lots of hot takes and blah blah. It's amazing 'cause ya been here like 6 months. Kicking in the door like it's COD. Gun blazing but using a LMG to clear a room instead of a SMG.
 

bicboi64

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redbrick98 said:
Feel like this team needs more a$$holes

Sam Bennett is the type of experience they need down the middle ... too young and soft down the middle currently
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I'd prefer the players that can excel at the actual game of hockey without needing all the theatrics.

Give me an Atkinson, Jenner, Oleksiak, Zadarov, Goodrow, BTanev, or a Crouse over guys like Bennett anyday.
 
Alf Silfversson

Alf Silfversson

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Vancouver will likely need cap space next year.

I wonder if there might be a fit in a Forsberg for Conor Garland swap

We need more players that aren't afraid to go to the net hard. I don't care that he's small, Garland is a pain in the ass for opposing D but has likely priced himself out of Vancouver.

Vancouver replaces DeSmith as their back up and gains about $2.2M in cap space this year and almost $5M the next.

To Ottawa:
Garland
3rd round pick

To Vancouver:
Forsberg
6th round pick
 
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bicboi64

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Alf Silfversson said:
Vancouver will likely need cap space next year.

I wonder if there might be a fit in a Forsberg for Conor Garland swap

We need more players that aren't afraid to go to the net hard. I don't care that he's small, Garland is a pain in the ass for opposing D but has likely priced himself out of Vancouver.

Vancouver replaces DeSmith as their back up and gains about $2.2M in cap space this year and almost $5M the next.

To Ottawa:
Garland
3rd round pick

To Vancouver:
Forsberg
6th round pick
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I'd gladly do a Forsberg-Garland swap (not sure if the Nucks would).

Wouldn't mind trying to pry Dakota Joshua either. That dude has a motor and would be great for our bottom 6
 
Wallet Inspector

Wallet Inspector

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Logan Thompson is starting for Vegas again tonight.

With how tight they are on cap space, maybe they would consider trading Adin Hill?
 

redbrick98

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Wallet Inspector said:
Logan Thompson is starting for Vegas again tonight.

With how tight they are on cap space, maybe they would consider trading Adin Hill?
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Vegas considers anything

They're not attached to Mark Stone even if it gave them a chance at another cup

Most ruthless team in the league.
 
Emerica

Emerica

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bicboi64 said:
I'd gladly do a Forsberg-Garland swap (not sure if the Nucks would).

Wouldn't mind trying to pry Dakota Joshua either. That dude has a motor and would be great for our bottom 6
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Joshua is a free agent after this season and half the league is probably going to be in on him. He is going to get paid handsomely
 
Erik Alfredsson

Erik Alfredsson

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Wallet Inspector said:
But we already got at least two assholes: Brady and Greig.
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You can't have too many of those types of players. Ideally you want a "f*** you" attitude throughout your entire lineup.

And Brady wears the C, so he can't be a piece of shit on the ice all the time. A guy like Bennett has the green light to be a rat bastard every time he steps out onto the ice.
 
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GCK

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Ostapchuk is going to hard to play against. Think a better Nick Paul.
 

ChurchOfAlfie

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No dog in this fight, but Keith Tkachuk absolutely did give an interview around the time of the Stone trade. It caused a lot of worry on here about Brady leaving if Stone wasn't resigned.

Think it's the TSN1200 interview below if anyone cares to listen to it. Not sure if there's anything more than what's in the tweet though.

www.tsn.ca

Tkachuk: Special night for us and our boys

Former NHL'er Keith Tkachuk joins The Senators pregame show to talk about his son facing off against each other at CTC tonight
www.tsn.ca www.tsn.ca

 
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