Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Tkatchuk? Like signed his ELC?
Yes he would have. Why did he sign an extension? After signed his ELC and then us trading stone from under him lol. He could have demanded a trade right there and then.

He didn’t keep that as some sort of chess move to get tkatchuk to sign his ELC. Tkatchuk would have been even more offended if that was the reason and then those pieces are immediately moved?

Dorion thought we could play. Plain and simple. He’s bad.

Same guy who tries to take us to the next level with Matt Murray Derek Stepan Dadanov and Erik Gudbrnasson.,..

You will have to search through archives of interviews, but Daddy Tkachuk has said something to the affect that Brady wasn't going to sign to have his development stunted by being the only player on the team. It was in the context of the Stone trade.

Keeping Stone+Duchene and bringing in roster players instead of maximizing picks+prospects and the above info is what leads me to conclude that they didn't trade those players in the summer due to needing to make the situation desirable enough to get Brady to sign.

It all stems back to the Melnyk stuff. I think that they couldn't do a proper rebuild because of his budget and reliance on ticket sales/revenue. Ticket sales were going to be worse than a typical rebuild because there was no trust or goodwill in the market place for a Melnyk run organization.

So it was a double whammy. They needed to convince the season ticket base that they weren't just selling off their stars to save money after their RFA years were up (spoiler: They were), Tkachuk also apparently was going to stay in College if the situation in Ottawa was a negative one on the ice. Keeping Stone, Duchene, adding Boedker, Tierney, etc - it made it seem a bit more like a re-tool than a tear down.

 

[Loach]

You will have to search through archives of interviews, but Daddy Tkachuk has said something to the affect that Brady wasn't going to sign to have his development stunted by being the only player on the team. It was in the context of the Stone trade.

It all stems back to the Melnyk stuff. I think that they couldn't do a proper rebuild because of his budget and reliance on ticket sales/revenue. Ticket sales were going to be worse than a typical rebuild because there was no trust or goodwill in the market place for a Melnyk run organization.

So it was a double whammy. They needed to convince the season ticket base that they weren't just selling off their stars to save money after their RFA years were up (spoiler: They were), Tkachuk also apparently was going to stay in College if the situation in Ottawa was a negative one on the ice. Keeping Stone, Duchene, adding Boedker, Tierney, etc - it made it seem a bit more like a re-tool than a tear down.

Never heard any of this.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

You will have to search through archives of interviews, but Daddy Tkachuk has said something to the affect that Brady wasn't going to sign to have his development stunted by being the only player on the team. It was in the context of the Stone trade.

Keeping Stone+Duchene and bringing in roster players instead of maximizing picks+prospects and the above info is what leads me to conclude that they didn't trade those players in the summer due to needing to make the situation desirable enough to get Brady to sign.

It all stems back to the Melnyk stuff. I think that they couldn't do a proper rebuild because of his budget and reliance on ticket sales/revenue. Ticket sales were going to be worse than a typical rebuild because there was no trust or goodwill in the market place for a Melnyk run organization.

So it was a double whammy. They needed to convince the season ticket base that they weren't just selling off their stars to save money after their RFA years were up (spoiler: They were), Tkachuk also apparently was going to stay in College if the situation in Ottawa was a negative one on the ice. Keeping Stone, Duchene, adding Boedker, Tierney, etc - it made it seem a bit more like a re-tool than a tear down.

So Brady Tkachuk, as an NCAA player, was going to wait 3 more years before getting a paycheck?


Yeah, I don't think so. He was a top 5 pick who was guaranteed good cash right off the hop. He was signing an ELC. 100%.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Never heard any of this.

I will try to find the interview later if I can.

As I stated, some of what I said in the previous post is assumptions based on what was said. Take it with a grain of salt until I dig up the interview, but it was something to the affect that he didn't want Brady to sign on a team that had zero players. The interview likely took place around the TDL when Stone was traded, or slightly after.

So Brady Tkachuk, as an NCAA player, was going to wait 3 more years before getting a paycheck?


Yeah, I don't think so. He was a top 5 pick who was guaranteed good cash right off the hop. He was signing an ELC. 100%.

Yes, just like Cutter Gauthier...

 

[Skid]

I will try to find the interview later if I can.

As I stated, some of what I said in the previous post is assumptions based on what was said. Take it with a grain of salt until I dig up the interview, but it was something to the affect that he didn't want Brady to sign on a team that had zero players. The interview likely took place around the TDL when Stone was traded, or slightly after.



Yes, just like Cutter Gauthier...

Opposite of cutter gauthier. He wanted to sign last year and Philly didn’t have the space for him on roster/contract. Gauthier was pissed and he left.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Opposite of cutter gauthier. He wanted to sign last year and Philly didn’t have the space for him on roster/contract. Gauthier was pissed and he left.

The point is that, a College player with star power has leverage to force a trade because losing them for a compensatory second round pick is not an acceptable outcome.

Not to mention, the added pressure from the malcontent that already existed in the Ottawa fanbase, and Brady's pick being tied to the Duchene fiasco where Ottawa chose to keep the Brady pick and in turn lost what turned out to be the 4th overall next year.

Then add in how valuable Brady was (correctly) perceived to be. He had a boatload of leverage to force a trade if conditions for him to sign weren't optimal.

If he didn't sign with Ottawa that summer, it was very unlikely that he would have to stay in College for 3 years because for the reasons above it is reasonable to assume the Senators would have tried to maximize the value of the asset. They weren't going to risk having to take a 2nd round pick.

 

[Loach]

The point is that, a College player with star power has leverage to force a trade because losing them for a compensatory second round pick is not an acceptable outcome.

Not to mention, the added pressure from the malcontent that already existed in the Ottawa fanbase, and Brady's pick being tied to the Duchene fiasco where Ottawa chose to keep the Brady pick and in turn lost what turned out to be the 4th overall next year.

Then add in how valuable Brady was (correctly) perceived to be. He had a boatload of leverage to force a trade if conditions for him to sign weren't optimal.

If he didn't sign with Ottawa that summer, it was very unlikely that he would have to stay in College for 3 years because for the reasons above it is reasonable to assume the Senators would have tried to maximize the value of the asset. They weren't going to risk having to take a 2nd round pick.

I'm having a hard time following this.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Never heard any of this.

Either have I, I feel like I’ve heard most of KT interviews.

 

[Loach]

Either have I, I feel like I’ve heard most of KT interviews.

I feel like this all might be BS. Lol

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I feel like this all might be BS. Lol

You should assume it is BS until I find the interview.

I will intimately re-listen to Keith Tkachuk podcasts when I have the chance and get back to you guys.

 

[Loach]

You should assume it is BS until I find the interview.

I will intimately re-listen to Keith Tkachuk podcasts when I have the chance and get back to you guys.

Then why are you bringing it up? Lmao!

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Then why are you bringing it up? Lmao!

There was discussion about the team losing value on Stone by not trading him in the summer. (Burrowsaurus)

I said that I recalled Keith Tkachuk saying in an interview something to the affect that Brady wasn't going to sign on a team with no players in relation to the Stone trade. I added that I thought that and revenue via season tickets were reasons why they opted not to trade Stone and Duchene when their value would have been higher. I speculated the above might be why they made a lot of strange moves, like adding Boedker.

Nobody else recalled that interview and questioned the legitimacy of my memory. Seeing that nobody else remembered the interview, and not wanting to say something false, I stated that I would try to dig through a few Tkachuk interviews and try to find the quote. People here tend to follow the team very closely, so if nobody else remembers it (whether it was a Bardown or TSN 1200 interview), it is possible that I am misremembering.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

There was discussion about the team losing value on Stone by not trading him in the summer. (Burrowsaurus)

I said that I recalled Keith Tkachuk saying in an interview something to the affect that Brady wasn't going to sign on a team with no players in relation to the Stone trade. I added that I thought that and revenue via season tickets were reasons why they opted not to trade Stone and Duchene when their value would have been higher. I speculated the above might be why they made a lot of strange moves, like adding Boedker.

Nobody else recalled that interview and questioned the legitimacy of my memory. Seeing that nobody else remembered the interview, and not wanting to say something false, I stated that I would try to dig through a few Tkachuk interviews and try to find the quote. People here tend to follow the team very closely, so if nobody else remembers it (whether it was a Bardown or TSN 1200 interview), it is possible that I am misremembering.

Just to provide a bit of timeline without chiming in...

Brady was drafted on June 21, 2018 and signed on Aug 13, 2019. In the time between those events, our significant moves were:
- Qualified Stone, Ceci & Paul; Claesson, Drieger unqualified
- Burrows bought out
- Paul signed
- Stone & Ceci signed

Karl was dealt a month later. Boedker was acquired before we ever drafted Brady, as was Paajarvi.

Those are all the significant moves around the time we added & signed Brady.

 

[Hale The Villain]

The cost of not trading him would have been no better.

True, but it begs the question why we didn't move Chychrun at the deadline if we had to retain 50% on Tarasenko and therefore were in danger of getting a bonus cap penalty.

I think we're going to look back and wonder why on earth we kept Chychrun past the deadline. Not only did we almost certainly give up value renting him for the rest of the season unnecessarily, but keeping a top 4 D for the last 20ish games may have been the difference between picking 7th and 5th (only 3 points in the standings).

We'll see what we get for him this summer, but I think it's going to prove to be a missed opportunity.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

True, but it begs the question why we didn't move Chychrun at the deadline if we had to retain 50% on Tarasenko and therefore were in danger of getting a bonus cap penalty.

I think we're going to look back and wonder why on earth we kept Chychrun past the deadline. Not only did we almost certainly give up value renting him for the rest of the season unnecessarily, but keeping a top 4 D for the last 20ish games may have been the difference between picking 7th and 5th (only 3 points in the standings).

We'll see what we get for him this summer, but I think it's going to prove to be a missed opportunity.

What good asset was traded for a player who Chychrun is a better option than? I had the same view as you heading into the deadline but seeing the moves that went down made me re-consider

 

[Hale The Villain]

What good asset was traded for a player who Chychrun is a better option than? I had the same view as you heading into the deadline but seeing the moves that went down made me re-consider

What makes you think his value would be higher in the summer?

Based on what the other D traded at the deadline returned, I would have expected at least a 2nd + another pick or a prospect for Chychrun if he were traded as a rental.

But he's not a rental, which means a team trading for him at the deadline could have used him for the rest of the seasons + playoffs and then kept him for an extra year, or they could then trade him in the summer for assets, which is what we're likely going to do. Thus his value to acquiring teams would have been higher and they would have been willing to pay more knowing they could deal him in the summer to re-coup assets. Even moreso had we bit the bullet and retained on him to maximize his value (which is what we should have done IMO).

Therefore Chychrun's value at the deadline was his rental value + his summer value. We passed up his rental value (eg. 2nd+pick/prospect) and are now just going to get his value to a team in the summer, whether as a 1 year rental or perhaps in a deal with an extension worked out.

Logically there's no reason to think we'll get the more value in the summer than we would have gotten at the deadline, even if it was a buyer's market.

 

[Golden_Jet]

True, but it begs the question why we didn't move Chychrun at the deadline if we had to retain 50% on Tarasenko and therefore were in danger of getting a bonus cap penalty.

Not sure I follow, what bonus cap penalty?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Not sure I follow, what bonus cap penalty?

See 1-2 pages ago.

 

[GCK]

True, but it begs the question why we didn't move Chychrun at the deadline if we had to retain 50% on Tarasenko and therefore were in danger of getting a bonus cap penalty.

I think we're going to look back and wonder why on earth we kept Chychrun past the deadline. Not only did we almost certainly give up value renting him for the rest of the season unnecessarily, but keeping a top 4 D for the last 20ish games may have been the difference between picking 7th and 5th (only 3 points in the standings).

We'll see what we get for him this summer, but I think it's going to prove to be a missed opportunity.

I think they tried to move Chychrun but the offers weren’t there at the deadline.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Therefore Chychrun's value at the deadline was his rental value + his summer value. We passed up his rental value (eg. 2nd+pick/prospect) and are now just going to get his value to a team in the summer, whether as a 1 year rental or perhaps in a deal with an extension worked

Well that’s false.
Using your example, if TDL worth a second + pick/ prospect and say summer value is worth a second. That doesn’t make his value two seconds and a pick/prospect.

Imagine if it did, there would be zero TDL deals.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think they tried to move Chychrun but the offers weren’t there at the deadline.

If they weren't "there", meaning they were disappointing offers, they'll be even more disappointing in the summer, which is the point of the post.

 

[GCK]

If they weren't "there", meaning they were disappointing offers, they'll be even more disappointing in the summer, which is the point of the post.

There was very little cap space available to playoff teams.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Well that’s false.
Using your example, if TDL worth a second + pick/ prospect and say summer value is worth a second. That doesn’t make his value two seconds and a pick/prospect.

Imagine if it did, there would be zero TDL deals.

It absolutely does.

Let's be conservative and assume Chychrun's value as a rental was a 2nd (slightly higher than Lyubushkin, Edmundson, etc...). Let's also keep it simple and assume his value in the summer is a 2nd round pick.

If a playoff team were to only pay a 2nd for Chychrun at the deadline, they could then deal him come the summer for a 2nd and then be able to rent him for the rest of the 23/24 season + playoffs for free.

Obviously that would be an incredible deal for them which is why they would have been willing to pay more for Chychrun than just his rental value (a 2nd)

Logically his value at the deadline should have been a 2nd+2nd, while it's only a single 2nd in the summer in this simplified example.

 

[redbrick98]

Chychrun for Sam Bennett ?

Straight up

 

[Hale The Villain]

There was very little cap space available to playoff teams.

Which is why we should have retained 50% to maximize his value and widen his trade market.

I know you don't like the idea of carrying 2.3M in retained money into next season, but from the sounds of it not trading Chychrun at all may have cost us almost a million in performance bonus cap penalty, so it should have been a no brainer.