GDT: Free Agency 2014 (Part 2)

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

I agree with this part. I was actually disappointed that they failed to select a goalie this year.

i kinda gave them a mulligan on that because it seemed like all the good goalies got taken in about 10 minutes after first one was picked.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

i kinda gave them a mulligan on that because it seemed like all the good goalies got taken in about 10 minutes after first one was picked.

Yeah I wasn't really expecting a high quality one but a body with some decent upside would have been nice since all we have is two currently in Stolarz & Madsen.

I still liked the draft with Lindblom & Fazleev as late picks on top of the early picks so it's tough to really complain but we desperately need to address the goaltending situation next year with possibly an earlier pick being used on one if we acquire some 2's & 3's from here on out.

 

[blinds]

That's the toughest thing for me to reconcile right now. I want this team to have as good a season as possible, but frankly, what I saw from Berube was even worse than discouraging last year. With his contract up this season, I'd hate to luck into a second round finish only for Berube to be reupped for three more years.

I liked the teams energy under Berube for most of the year, and I liked his attention to match ups, but that's about it. Most else I found to be very frustrating.

Agreed. Berube does a couple things very well, but as far as choosing which players to play and when (including making the lines) he's been god awful and there really hasn't been any kind of indication that he's adjusting on that front. It took him until the last period of the season to even shorten his bench, I just don't see him as NHL head coach material. And when he actually changes the lines when we're desperate we see Raffl on the top line? It makes no sense.

Of course it was his first season, but I don't see much to be hopeful about. He's incredibly stubborn and rigid, I don't think he's the coach we need for a team shifting towards youth and prospects. With his reliance on having a physical player on every line and each D pairing having a stay-at-home body bruiser with a puck mover, it doesn't leave much room for flexibility.

That's not good when our lines have little chemistry as it is (is there any chemistry other than G-Jake and Couts-Read?) and we have young guys like Morin, Haag, Alt, Laughton, etc coming in that we will need flexibility to give them room to develop their game and chemistry.

Not to mention his "accountability" that he always mentioned and we never actually saw.

 

[Psuhockey]

Agreed. Berube does a couple things very well, but as far as choosing which players to play and when (including making the lines) he's been god awful and there really hasn't been any kind of indication that he's adjusting on that front. It took him until the last period of the season to even shorten his bench, I just don't see him as NHL head coach material. And when he actually changes the lines when we're desperate we see Raffl on the top line? It makes no sense.

Of course it was his first season, but I don't see much to be hopeful about. He's incredibly stubborn and rigid, I don't think he's the coach we need for a team shifting towards youth and prospects. With his reliance on having a physical player on every line and each D pairing having a stay-at-home body bruiser with a puck mover, it doesn't leave much room for flexibility.

That's not good when our lines have little chemistry as it is (is there any chemistry other than G-Jake and Couts-Read?) and we have young guys like Morin, Haag, Alt, Laughton, etc coming in that we will need flexibility to give them room to develop their game and chemistry.

Not to mention his "accountability" that he always mentioned and we never actually saw.

IMO a lot of what you mentioned is a talent issue not a coaching issue. Hard to shuffle the lines when the team is made up of centers and centers who can't play other positions. Having a mucker on every line is pretty standard in the NHL. When the entire d-corp is made up of one way players who can either defend or move the puck and not both, it doesn't really leave many options. As far accountability, the prized UFA signing was benched to the 4th line and Hartnell is no longer on the team. I think that's pretty good start.

Depending on how you the view the roster, Berube deserves the benefit of the doubt. I think the roster is mediocre at best made up of high end role players. Giroux and Voracek are the only top 6 forwards on the team as of today and Coburn is the only top 4 defender IMO: doesn't leave a lot to work with so getting in the playoffs was an accomplishment.

 

[Garbage Goal]

A lot of the chief complaints about Berube last season was the utilization of players at improper times (like Rinaldo seeing any shifts when we were down goals, Lecavalier getting the odd D-zone face-off, Streit never getting a sniff of the first PP unit, Giroux frequently not getting enough ice-time, the Gustafsson thing, etc.). That has nothing to do with the roster, it's the coaching.

 

[blinds]

IMO a lot of what you mentioned is a talent issue not a coaching issue. Hard to shuffle the lines when the team is made up of centers and centers who can't play other positions. Having a mucker on every line is pretty standard in the NHL. When the entire d-corp is made up of one way players who can either defend or move the puck and not both, it doesn't really leave many options. As far accountability, the prized UFA signing was benched to the 4th line and Hartnell is no longer on the team. I think that's pretty good start.

Depending on how you the view the roster, Berube deserves the benefit of the doubt. I think the roster is mediocre at best made up of high end role players. Giroux and Voracek are the only top 6 forwards on the team as of today and Coburn is the only top 4 defender IMO: doesn't leave a lot to work with so getting in the playoffs was an accomplishment.

That's true, the roster doesn't leave him much to work with. But there was the whole Mez/Gus fiasco and after Mez was moved and Grossmann was slumping, and he still wouldn't play Gus, it shows that Berube is choosing the guys that can only play one-way over a guy like Gus who can play both ways.

Berube may have been a part of getting Hartnell moved, but in the end it was Hextall's move and we never saw any accountability for his poor play or penalties during the season. Vinny is the only guy that saw his ice time affected by his actual play while there were many guys who were deserving of less ice time at different points during the season. Berube talked about accountability, but really didn't deliver.

Other than that, I think you're selling our forwards short. Simmonds, Schenn, Hartnell and Read could all be considered top 6 guys as well. Voracek is probably capable of driving his own line possession and playmaking wise, but we never got a chance to see it. Read has a great shot and offensive instincts, but he was stuck in a defensive role the entire season. Simmonds and Vinny on the same line was stupid because they're both poor defensively and neither are good with the puck.

There were just so many things he could have done differently with the forward corps and he never tried anything different. The 2nd and 4th lines were complete liabilities the entire season, while we never got to see Read in an offensive role or tried to break up our two play makers/possession players in G and Voracek to spread the offense around and balance the lines.

We were completely reliant on the top line producing when they didn't have any reliable goal scorers with Hartnell's poor year. When they had dry stretches, the team lost. When our top line got focused on in the playoffs, we lost.

 

[BernieParent]

Yeah I wasn't really expecting a high quality one but a body with some decent upside would have been nice since all we have is two currently in Stolarz & Madsen.

I still liked the draft with Lindblom & Fazleev as late picks on top of the early picks so it's tough to really complain but we desperately need to address the goaltending situation next year with possibly an earlier pick being used on one if we acquire some 2's & 3's from here on out.

Not a big fan of Chubak?

 

[Psuhockey]

That's true, the roster doesn't leave him much to work with. But there was the whole Mez/Gus fiasco and after Mez was moved and Grossmann was slumping, and he still wouldn't play Gus, it shows that Berube is choosing the guys that can only play one-way over a guy like Gus who can play both ways.

Berube may have been a part of getting Hartnell moved, but in the end it was Hextall's move and we never saw any accountability for his poor play or penalties during the season. Vinny is the only guy that saw his ice time affected by his actual play while there were many guys who were deserving of less ice time at different points during the season. Berube talked about accountability, but really didn't deliver.

Other than that, I think you're selling our forwards short. Simmonds, Schenn, Hartnell and Read could all be considered top 6 guys as well. Voracek is probably capable of driving his own line possession and playmaking wise, but we never got a chance to see it. Read has a great shot and offensive instincts, but he was stuck in a defensive role the entire season. Simmonds and Vinny on the same line was stupid because they're both poor defensively and neither are good with the puck.

There were just so many things he could have done differently with the forward corps and he never tried anything different. The 2nd and 4th lines were complete liabilities the entire season, while we never got to see Read in an offensive role or tried to break up our two play makers/possession players in G and Voracek to spread the offense around and balance the lines.

We were completely reliant on the top line producing when they didn't have any reliable goal scorers with Hartnell's poor year. When they had dry stretches, the team lost. When our top line got focused on in the playoffs, we lost.

You have a much higher opinion of the forwards than I do so obviously are opinions will be different. Simmonds is a powerplay specialist who as you said is bad defensively and makes poor decisions in the neutral zone. Hartnell is a worst version of Simmonds. Schenn doesn't have the consistency of production or the consistent effort to be a top 6 forward in the league yet. He doesn't move his feet regularly enough so hopefully that is a youth issue and not a harbinger of effort to come. Read is a nice player but if you take him off the 3rd line, you take away any chance that line has at scoring.

As far as treating players accountable: if you are to bench a player you have to have someone to replace him with. The phantoms were a colossal mess and the bottom forwards and reserves don't belong in the NHL. Hard to hold forwards accountable when Rosehill is there replacement.

We were completely reliant on the top line producing when they didn't have any reliable goal scorers with Hartnell's poor year. When they had dry stretches, the team lost. When our top line got focused on in the playoffs, we lost.

Exact same thing under Laviolette. That's two coaches so to me that a sign it's the roster.

I don't know if Berube is the answer. He very well might not be as he did have some questionable decisions in the playoffs. But hockey coaches get way too much blame in this town when coaches in the NHL are largely the product of the talent around them. Joel Quenneville was a twice fired coach who couldn't win the big one until he got Toews, Kane, and Keith. Same with Darryl Sutter,3 times fired, until he got to coach Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar. Each of those coaches lost in the 1st round of the playoffs their first year on the job with Sutter getting swept. Give Berube a chance and some better talent and see what happens.

 

[hatcher]

You have a much higher opinion of the forwards than I do so obviously are opinions will be different. Simmonds is a powerplay specialist who as you said is bad defensively and makes poor decisions in the neutral zone. Hartnell is a worst version of Simmonds. Schenn doesn't have the consistency of production or the consistent effort to be a top 6 forward in the league yet. He doesn't move his feet regularly enough so hopefully that is a youth issue and not a harbinger of effort to come. Read is a nice player but if you take him off the 3rd line, you take away any chance that line has at scoring.

As far as treating players accountable: if you are to bench a player you have to have someone to replace him with. The phantoms were a colossal mess and the bottom forwards and reserves don't belong in the NHL. Hard to hold forwards accountable when Rosehill is there replacement.


Exact same thing under Laviolette. That's two coaches so to me that a sign it's the roster.

I don't know if Berube is the answer. He very well might not be as he did have some questionable decisions in the playoffs. But hockey coaches get way too much blame in this town when coaches in the NHL are largely the product of the talent around them. Joel Quenneville was a twice fired coach who couldn't win the big one until he got Toews, Kane, and Keith. Same with Darryl Sutter,3 times fired, until he got to coach Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar. Each of those coaches lost in the 1st round of the playoffs their first year on the job with Sutter getting swept. Give Berube a chance and some better talent and see what happens.

All of this is spot on. I don't think highly of this forward group either as to much is put on the PP to get us wins. 5on5 this team is terrible due to the 3 s's,Size,Speed,Skill.

 

[hatcher]

Scotty Bowman won cups cause of loaded rosters and the same goes for any coach. The talent on the Flyers is really only 2 players and that's G and Voracek and the rest have average skating,Smallish size,and below average puck skills and that's why the team look horrible for most of the games.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Scotty Bowman won cups cause of loaded rosters and the same goes for any coach. The talent on the Flyers is really only 2 players and that's G and Voracek and the rest have average skating,Smallish size,and below average puck skills and that's why the team look horrible for most of the games.

Can't go with you on that one.

 

[hatcher]

Can't go with you on that one.

We all have Opinions but our team plays and small,slow,less skilled game then a lot of teams. Chemistry is the worst I have seen with team. They can't even cycle properly let alone be skillfull with the puck.

 

[Striiker]

We all have Opinions but our team plays and small,slow,less skilled game then a lot of teams. Chemistry is the worst I have seen with team. They can't even cycle properly let alone be skillfull with the puck.

So now we need to get faster and more skilled.

A few weeks ago you were saying Read was useless and we needed Clifford or Nolan...

 

[hatcher]

So now we need to get faster and more skilled.

A few weeks ago you were saying Read was useless and we needed Clifford or Nolan...

All three S's son. Speed,Skill,And some ****ing size that means something just like Clifford and King.

 

[BleedOrange]

I believe hextall has a plan going forward and I'm willing to to wait it out.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Scotty Bowman won cups cause of loaded rosters and the same goes for any coach. The talent on the Flyers is really only 2 players and that's G and Voracek and the rest have average skating,Smallish size,and below average puck skills and that's why the team look horrible for most of the games.

I think you are being dramatic here. The team does not look horrible most of their games. They may not look like world-beaters, but they do not look horrible. At times, like any team, yes they have off games. And in the beginning of last season it looked bleak. But the Flyers have a good team, one that on paper is a playoff team. Not a Cup contender, but a playoff team. Obviously we want them to be a Cup contender, but that is easier said than done.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

All three S's son. Speed,Skill,And some ****ing size that means something just like Clifford and King.

They've got to stop finishing top 3 in the league in minor penalties. Teams that finish in the top 10 seldom win Cups. In this NHL, that has more to do with lack of foot speed and discipline than size. I do however recognize that teams like LA win board battles consistently and that does come back to size. So 4 S's, speed, skill, size and stopping with the stupid penalties.

 

[Prongo]

Lol Clifford is missing one of those three s's..... it's the skill if anyone couldn't figure it out haha.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Wouldn't mind giving Setoguchi a 1 or 2 year deal to give him a chance to rediscover his game.

 

[blinds]

I don't think our forwards' speed is really an issue, especially with Hartnell gone. I mean, Couts and Vinny are slow, but the others are average at worst while we have some very quick ones in Voracek and Read.

On the other hand, our defense's speed is a huge issue. The only one above average is Coburn and it's a stretch to call any of the rest even average. I feel like that's one of the biggest reasons we get hemmed in our own zone for so long. Also having guys like Grossmann who handle the puck like a grenade doesn't help.

 

[Prongo]

Let's just try and trade Vinny for Gaustad and call it a day. Sigh Winnik and use the option where we put Pronger on LTIR before the season starts. I am usually never one who is an advocate for a losing team but I would want to stock pile as much prospects and picks this year and next year for the drafts. I just have a bad feeling about this year. The division got better and we were handcuffed but it might have came at the best time. The draft will be extremely deep and strong. That's why I am advocating for picks right now. If they do struggle, put people like Grossmann, Coburn, Kimmo, Umberger, Vinny(if he is still here), and get as much in return as possible. One year can change a franchise, hopefully Hexy doesn't rush things along.

Gaustad could have some value if we retain 50% of his salary in a trade as well. Coming in at 1.625 would look good for a team needing a big time PKer and faceoff 4th liner.

Could you imagine the return Coburn would get at the deadline, teams all over would be lining up for him.

 

[Infinite Jest]

Problem is, Gaustad isn't available, Poile has specifically mentioned how important he is in multiple interviews. Neither is Stalberg, Laviolette has mentioned his speed and how he sees him as a great fit. Looks like there will have to be major salary retention if Vinny goes to Nashville.

 

[Curufinwe]

There's no point in trading him if there's anything more than minor salary retention.

 

[Prongo]

Problem is, Gaustad isn't available, Poile has specifically mentioned how important he is in multiple interviews. Neither is Stalberg, Laviolette has mentioned his speed and how he sees him as a great fit. Looks like there will have to be major salary retention if Vinny goes to Nashville.

We can't take on any major salary anyway.

There's where the problem lies. Our beats and even informed people fail to remember we cannot retain bonus money in contracts.

Vinny is owed 4 million this year. 2.5 in base salary next year. 2.5 the next and 3 in the final. It equals 12 million. We can retain 50% of that which is 6 million. Which comes out to 1.5 per year. Rather just hold onto him for another year and hope he rebounds.

On another note, what does Nashville plan on doing against their division. Every team got stronger up the middle and better but Nashville.

 

[Infinite Jest]

There's no point in trading him if there's anything more than minor salary retention.

The point is getting rid of a player that clearly didn't fit last year. Better to have a 2.25 million dollar cap hit for nothing than a 4.5 caphit for a player that makes your team worse.

Then again, maybe Vinny turns it around, but he really didn't seem to fit Berube's system.