Confirmed with Link: Francis out as GM - Don Waddell named GM 5/8/18

[Joe McGrath]

He's "meddlesome" because he wouldn't turn over the keys to his new $500 million toy to a guy who didn't feel the need to take input from anyone else, including his new owner.

The old-boy network that is the NHL is ********* because Francis was "invested." But everything I'm reading makes me think Francis was in a little bubble, where he isolated himself and his plan from everybody else in the organization. He got away with it under Karmanos because the guy didn't care. But if he wanted to stay, all he had to do was let everyone in on the plan and accept some expert opinions. He refused.

Where have you read anything that indicates that?

 

[My Special Purpose]

Where have you read anything that indicates that?

This article especially: Why Canes owner Tom Dundon reassigned Ron Francis

“I think my style maybe is more to try things and figure them out versus he’s probably better at planning his next move. It’s not about whether or not we agree on most things. I think it’s just how we get there, how we do things.”

That sounds to me like Francis literally had a step-by-step plan and there was no deviating from it. Maybe I'm overanalyzing.

 

[Bub]

I was expecting to read something asinine, but I read basically everything I’ve been saying about Francis as a GM for the last 3 months.

It's the "Dundon's going to kill this team because I'm a smart hockey guy and I understand things you yokels don't."

 

[vorbis]

frickin' crap, I go to Abu Dhabi for a few days and then I come back to see this ****

I like Abu Dhabi. I had the special experience of buying champagne in Abu Dhabi for New Years 2010 (I think that's the year). it's a really strange place, that and Dubai.

 

[Joe McGrath]

This article especially: Why Canes owner Tom Dundon reassigned Ron Francis



That sounds to me like Francis literally had a step-by-step plan and there was no deviating from it. Maybe I'm overanalyzing.

It’s possible you’re right. I just didn’t read it the same way based on what I’ve read (including the above). I still just read it as Francis is painfully patient and Dundon isn’t. Nothing writing with a mismatch of styles.

 

[Roboturner913]

I like Abu Dhabi. I had the special experience of buying champagne in Abu Dhabi for New Years 2010 (I think that's the year). it's a really strange place, that and Dubai.

I loved it. I was there for work so I didn't get to do a whole lot of touristy stuff, but the food was unfrickingbelievable and the people are super nice.

The hotel I stayed in had wall to wall marble floors, these huge archways, you could land a small plane (or maybe a big one) in the lobby, it was that huge.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Just saw the online GM application. Trolling everyone is a very Dallas Stars PR team move. Can’t say I dissaprove.

 

[Lempo]

The tweet has some dark undercurrents, though:

• ”Ain't Too Proud To Beg” (1989)
• ”Cry For Help” (1991)
• ”Move Right Out” (1991)
• ”Hopelessly” (1993)
• ”Lights Out” (2010)

 

[vorbis]

The tweet has some dark undercurrents, though:

• ”Ain't Too Proud To Beg” (1989)
• ”Cry For Help” (1991)
• ”Move Right Out” (1991)
• ”Hopelessly” (1993)
• ”Lights Out” (2010)

I was going to correct you to 'Ain't 2 Proud 2 Beg' but then I recognized one of the other titles and swore under my breath.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Dundon keeps using a lot of words to say RF is basically just a fuddy-duddy.

 

[offkilter]

Fenton, wonder how much he’s been involved with Nashville.

BriseBois and Futa are probably front runners

I'm sorry man, but the anime fan in me finds this hilarious.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What has Dundon done to deserve this "meddlesome owner" nonsense though? And there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Dundon wants complete control over player personnel. If that's what he wanted, he'd just make himself the GM.

It goes back to this tweet.

 

[Stickpucker]

Just saw the online GM application. Trolling everyone is a very Dallas Stars PR team move. Can’t say I dissaprove.

Time to link the EHM Sims. Anyone else able to turn Khudobin into a Vezina finalist or Riley Nash a 40 goal scorer?! :Sarcasm:

 

[bluedevil58]

It goes back to this tweet.

Better fire BP asap then. Seeing Eric suck under BP and go elsewhere and put up 40 goals is a complete and utter disgrace.

 

[StormCast]

It goes back to this tweet.

Well, who really knows if this is true but it's rare any MSHM (mainstream hockey media) outside of McKenzie has any real insight into the Canes. Secondly, it's easy to draw the parallels between Cuban and Dundon because of their friendship but it's a bit of leap to conclude TD wants the level of involvement that MC has. Not sure, based on public comments so far, that TD has anywhere near the ego Cuban does.

Better fire BP asap then. Seeing Eric suck under BP and go elsewhere and put up 40 goals is a complete and utter disgrace.

You don't think that's an oversimplification to lay all the blame on Peters? I do. Eric Staal skated like a listless ghost for the NYR too.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Well, who really knows if this is true but it's rare any MSHM (mainstream hockey media) outside of McKenzie has any real insight into the Canes. Secondly, it's easy to draw the parallels between Cuban and Dundon because of their friendship but it's a bit of leap to conclude TD wants the level of involvement that MC has. Not sure, based on public comments so far, that TD has anywhere near the ego Cuban does.


You don't think that's an oversimplification to lay all the blame on Peters? I do. Eric Staal skated like a listless ghost for the NYR too.

John Shannon is apparently also tight with Francis. I seem to recall him making some other ridiculous claim about us in the past (relo rumor?) that turned out to be a half-truth at best. He seems to be one of those guys who just sits and waits for things to happen so he can be the first to tweet about it. But as far as the greater hockey world is concerned, his word is more credible than that of our beat reporters.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yeah, looking back into it, John Shannon was the same guy that kicked off a firestorm on the Business board back in 2015 when he went on QC radio with flat-out speculation that the Canes would relocate to Quebec. Including saying that the Hurricanes ownership situation was “not salvageable” here.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's fair to question whether or not Shannon has inside info, but it's more than just Shannon's tweet. Dundon came right out and said, that at least in the short term, he's going to be very hands on and involved in and question every decision, even hockey operations. Below is his direct quote from an interview with Gulitti. So I'm not sure why people don't think he's going to be involved in hockey operations / decisions when he came right out and said that he would, at least for the short term. Long term, he says it's not his plan though so if we are to take him at his word for the long term, I would expect to do the same for short term. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that he'll likely be very involved in the short term.

Dundon, who became Carolina's majority owner Jan. 11, was aware before those phone calls of the outside perception he wants to be hands-on in all decisions, including those involving hockey operations, and said, "I think short term, it's probably accurate."

But he said that's not his long-term plan.

"I think it's appropriate right now that I challenge and question everything we do, so we can get a process that everyone buys into and we're comfortable with," Dundon said. "Once we do, I would be less likely to be involved with things that I think are working properly."

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's fair to question whether or not Shannon has inside info, but it's more than just Shannon's tweet. Dundon came right out and said, that at least in the short term, he's going to be very hands on and involved in and question every decision, even hockey operations. Below is his direct quote from an interview with Gulitti. So I'm not sure why people don't think he's going to be involved in hockey operations / decisions when he came right out and said that he would, at least for the short term. Long term, he says it's not his plan though so if we are to take him at his word for the long term, I would expect to do the same for short term.

It’s that “figure head GM” phrase that got everyone talking about how Dundon is one step away from putting on skates and being a player-owner-coach-GM.

Pretty obvious at this point that he’s not looking for anyone to be a figurehead.

 

[MinJaBen]

It's fair to question whether or not Shannon has inside info, but it's more than just Shannon's tweet. Dundon came right out and said, that at least in the short term, he's going to be very hands on and involved in and question every decision, even hockey operations. Below is his direct quote from an interview with Gulitti. So I'm not sure why people don't think he's going to be involved in hockey operations / decisions when he came right out and said that he would, at least for the short term. Long term, he says it's not his plan though so if we are to take him at his word for the long term, I would expect to do the same for short term. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that he'll likely be very involved in the short term.

Not saying your analysis is wrong, I pretty much agree with it, but if we play devil's advocate, there is a lot of wiggle room in this quote to suggest that he may in fact be a very hands on owner even in the long term:

"Once we do, I would be less likely to be involved with things that I think are working properly."

The bolded emphasis is mine. "Less likely" is not a statement that says he won't be involved even once the process is in place. But more concerning is the "working properly" statement....how often is the GM making big trades/decisions when the team is humming along and doing great? When things aren't working well is when the GM makes his money by making the strategic changes that correct the direction of the team. Dundon's quote seems to leave open the possibility that he wants to be a big part of those decisions. If he is, then it is legitimate to question how much authority the new GM has and if he will be just a "figure head GM".

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It’s that “figure head GM” phrase that got everyone talking about how Dundon is one step away from putting on skates and being a player-owner-coach-GM.

Pretty obvious at this point that he’s not looking for anyone to be a figurehead.

I haven't seen only that as part of the discussion as there have been all sorts of shades of grey in this thread (and others). From "just wants to put a process in place" to "wants a figurehead GM" and a bunch in between. All of that has people talking because it's a change, it's different and we don't have enough history with him to really know what's going to happen. At the end of the day, he's going to be much more involved, even in hockey decisions, and there's no question that as he wants things done his way. He bought the team and they haven't been successful, so that's his right. Like I said, not necessarily a bad thing, just different and thus prompts discussion.

To me, the "figure head GM" came more from other stuff he's said than the Shannon tweet. He's come out and said pretty clearly that he wants to put a process in place where the "red/green" type decisions are automatic and that the process will survive even when people are changed. Call it what you want, but to me, that means that he's putting a process in place that takes some of the power away from what was traditionally a GM role. Doesn't mean a GM will be powerless and the GM still needs to make the "yellow" calls, but I think that's where a lot of the talk on "Figure head GM" is coming from.

 

[StormCast]

It's fair to question whether or not Shannon has inside info, but it's more than just Shannon's tweet. Dundon came right out and said, that at least in the short term, he's going to be very hands on and involved in and question every decision, even hockey operations. Below is his direct quote from an interview with Gulitti. So I'm not sure why people don't think he's going to be involved in hockey operations / decisions when he came right out and said that he would, at least for the short term. Long term, he says it's not his plan though so if we are to take him at his word for the long term, I would expect to do the same for short term. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that he'll likely be very involved in the short term.

I can't speak for others but my point is not that he won't be hands-on but rather that it's a stretch to conclude it will be like Cuban due seemingly to the fact they are friends who live in Dallas. Keep in mind Karmanos also said he'd be more hands-on a couple years ago.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I can't speak for others but my point is not that he won't be hands-on but rather that it's a stretch to conclude it will be like Cuban due seemingly to the fact they are friends who live in Dallas.

That's fair. I think some of it is just because he's a bit of an unknown to us so we don't really know what to expect so we do what we do best here, draw conclusions.

 

[FreshSeabass]

 

[StormCast]

That's fair. I think some of it is just because he's a bit of an unknown to us so we don't really know what to expect so we do what we do best here, draw conclusions.

Agreed and it's not as if the tweet in any way said TD was going to emulate Cuban. I think of it in business terms in making the distinction between a hands-on leader and one who micromanages.